When to go into lag mode for putting?

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, DShepley said:

I disagree, you can learn enough about pace staying around 10 feet. I'm telling you, your brain is an amazing thing if you stay out of it's way. Hit 50 putts before a round from inside 5 feet and you won't need to pay much attention to lag putting speed, you'll just start to trust yourself. 

Exactly That ...and practice drawing a line from the target ( hole or spot on the green ) back to the ball , then back to the target , and then back to the ball.  Your brian will calculate the distance on its own , if you do this every single putt as part of the routine.  

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, Luv2kruz said:

Yes, I agree that lag putting is a unique skill and requires a different mindset and technical skillset. To be good at lag putting you have to practice lag putting skills. Being a great short range putter doesn't fix lag putting issues. Those are different putting skills.

 

Regarding ranges of importance, I think its different for each level of golfer and one size does not fit all. In the Stickney article I posted, he states:

1. One-putting more often from the statistical distances that makes sense to your level of play.
2. Eliminating three putts from the statistical distances that make sense to your level of play.

That means the each person has a different 'one putt' range and 'three putt range' that they are working on. 8 ft+ and 30ft+ may only be appropriate for a more proficient golfer, but may be beyond the capability of the high handicapper. In the article he suggests high handicappers 6-10 feet and 20 feet.

 

That is the part I disagree with, even high index players can be good putters if they put in a little time to work on their stroke.

 

Putting is the easiest part of the game and it doesn't take hours of practice to get decent at it if you invest the time to fix a bad stroke.  Most of the bad putters I play with have wacky mechanics and slap at the ball. I honestly rarely practice putting but inside 3ft is almost automatic, make a good percentage in the 4-10ft range, and rarely 3 putt if the greens are decent/consistent.  

[Luv2kruz]

4 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

That is the part I disagree with, even high index players can be good putters if they put in a little time to work on their stroke.

 

Putting is the easiest part of the game and it doesn't take hours of practice to get decent at it if you invest the time to fix a bad stroke.  Most of the bad putters I play with have wacky mechanics and slap at the ball. I honestly rarely practice putting but inside 3ft is almost automatic, make a good percentage in the 4-10ft range, and rarely 3 putt if the greens are decent/consistent.  

Agree that everyone can improve with some training and effort. Perhaps the phrase should have read, "but may be beyond the capability of the high handicapper at this point in their development." Just trying to say that the high handicapper needs to have appropriate goals and then subsequently adjust those goals as they get better.

[Ty_Webb]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPG-zk5LCl9/?utm_medium=copy_link
 

Finally found what I was looking for. PGA Tour stats for percentage of putts left short. 35-45 feet is 51%. That’s 100% lag mode. They’re still trying to hole it, but they’re trying to get it as close to the hole as possible. The way to do that is to hit it dead weight. 

[Krt22]

14 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPG-zk5LCl9/?utm_medium=copy_link
 

Finally found what I was looking for. PGA Tour stats for percentage of putts left short. 35-45 feet is 51%. That’s 100% lag mode. They’re still trying to hole it, but they’re trying to get it as close to the hole as possible. The way to do that is to hit it dead weight. 

Great data! Just what we were talking about, as the  hole gets further away, the center of the dispersion circle gets closer and closer to the hole. Pretty the pros can basically get it right in the middle of that circle from that range

[MonteScheinblum]

On 5/18/2021 at 2:17 AM, pinhigh27 said:

You have no idea what they are thinking about.

 

The 3 wood comparison is because at some point you mentally accept that you probably aren't making the shot. You still try to make it, again the goal is to shoot 18, but we accept that it's not possible. 

 

This is why words matter. I'm not sure what trying to make the putt means. Fawcett talks about simply hitting the right line with the right pace and accepting the results. That's what I also believe. 

 

To me, an overemphasis on making the putt is too much of an outcomes based approach rather than a systems based approach, where an outcome defines your outlook on the situation. You could hit the putt exactly how you want on the right line and pace and if you miss it because it hit a bump or it took a bad hop and in an outcome focused thinking model, that is a failure. I would say if you hit it on your line with the right speed that is all you can do and a positive outcome. Control the things you can control. 

 

I think everyone should attempt to hit every putt with the correct line and speed. Whether you perceive that as trying to make it is individual. 

 

I will focus on the outcome that is 5x more common at 50 feet for tour pros, ie not 3 putting, than the one that is 1/5th less common, making it. When I think about the correct line and correct pace, it more enables me to not 3 putt, making the putt is icing on top. People can have different outlooks. 

 

As I said in my experience, if you tell someone they need to try and make a long putt, the vast majority will hit it harder(too hard) because they want to absolutely eliminate leaving it short as a possible outcome. 

This is correct.  You pick a line, setup to it and forget about it. Hit the putt the solid is the first priority, as if you don’t, speed becomes way too variable.  You have very little control over whether the ball goes in or not.  Line up hit it solid and the right speed.  It will go in or it won’t.  People who try and make putts invariably hit it too hard, or steer it on a line.  People who try and lag putts don’t have much success either.
 

You ask most tour players (I have several dozen),  “I set up to my intended line and hit it solid.” The right speed is a function of many thousands of putts in many scenarios being hit solid that more or less functions like throwing a pass or shooting a basketball.  
 

There is no lag or make mode.  There is hit it solid on the intended line you setup to mode.
 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by MonteScheinblum

[Ty_Webb]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

This is correct.  You pick a line, setup to it and forget about it. Hit the putt the solid is the first priority, as if you don’t, speed becomes way too variable.  You have very little control over whether the ball goes in or not.  Line up hit it solid and the right speed.  It will go in or it won’t.  People who try and make putts invariably hit it too hard, or steer it on a line.  People who try and lag putts don’t have much success either.
 

You ask most tour players (I have several dozen),  “I set up to my intended line and hit it solid.” The right speed is a function of many thousands of putts in many scenarios being hit solid that more or less functions like throwing a pass or shooting a basketball.  
 

There is no lag or make mode.  There is hit it solid on the intended line you setup to mode.
 

 

 

I always like what Nick Faldo said about this. "Fulfill your half of the bargain". Basically, your half of the bargain is hit it on line at the right speed. The other half is fate.

[xmanhockey7]

If you’re a scratch about 10 feet. Speed control is key even inside that range. 

[Ty_Webb]

Fascinating stuff: