Why is the PGA tour so scared and resorting to extreme responses to super tour idea?

[Man_O_War]

Make a better offer to players? 

Compete like a true capitalist system (as fake as...) 

 

[GoGoErky]

If they lose the top tier players they won’t be around long.

 

They have a proposal for some pool of cash to payout to players based on their influence on social media, how much they impact fans coming to tour events and so on.

 

Just like with UEFA and the super league they know losing top teams will weaken UEFA so they threatened the teams that were going to signup. 

[SwooshLT]

I'm not saying isn't important but these offers are for WITH money!  I'm up for the Tour to protect its brand by not allowing anyone who signs up to play in sanctioned events.....but on the other hand , let's take care of ALL of those chasing the dream to play professionally......subsidies to players not making the cut and the ancillary provisions.....but the premise of the rich getting richer is asinine in my book.

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Man_O_War said:

Make a better offer to players? 

Compete like a true capitalist system (as fake as...) 

 

You don’t think power plays are part of capitalism ?  Clout is as old as time.  It has to be used carefully so as not to over play the hand. But it’s worth more than $ most times.  

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, Man_O_War said:

Compete like a true capitalist system (as fake as...) 

 

What is more capitalist than the winner of the tournament makes the most money?  How about we have this season long thing where you get points and whoever has the most points gets a 10mil check?

[oughtaquit]

Does the SGL have a plan for bringing in new players?  It's easy to identify the "top" golfers now because they all play in one place (the PGA Tour), but we know that in a few years some of those guys will no longer be on top and some newer guys, including some most of us haven't heard of yet, will have replaced them.  At a minimum, I'd think the SGL would have to get equal recognition with the PGA Tour from all 4 majors pus the OWGR, and from what I've read, that's far from a done deal.  

[Shilgy]

5 minutes ago, oughtaquit said:

Does the SGL have a plan for bringing in new players?  It's easy to identify the "top" golfers now because they all play in one place (the PGA Tour), but we know that in a few years some of those guys will no longer be on top and some newer guys, including some most of us haven't heard of yet, will have replaced them.  At a minimum, I'd think the SGL would have to get equal recognition with the PGA Tour from all 4 majors pus the OWGR, and from what I've read, that's far from a done deal.  

Under the current plan the new league would never get OWGR points.  A tour needs to have a minimum number events and other requirements to get points.  Without those many players would no longer qualify for majors which would be a nonstarter for most.

 

Might to just become a league featuring Phil against Phil.

[bscinstnct]

Supertour?!

 

🤣

 

Where is the first Supertour event? Who is in it?

 

All I see Supertour like

 

 

[smashdn]

What happens when they have an injury or their games are off or they change swing coaches?

What happens when the consumer eyes are not on this thing and the sponsors start leaving the players or cutting back the amount of the deal?

[drgolfaholic]

PGA Tour will flex when they have the muscle.  As a fan, I appreciate the current system rewarding excellence.  Zalatoris fought his way in just as fast as Fowler losing his game on the way out.  

[Soloman1]

You never want to take sides against the family...

[Arn]

[BlackDiamondPar5]

3 hours ago, Man_O_War said:

Make a better offer to players? 

Compete like a true capitalist system (as fake as...) 

 

Of course there's the questionable morality when someone sidles up to those with horrific human rights simply because they offer them the most cash. 

[JeffreySpicoli]

11 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Of course there's the questionable morality when someone sidles up to those with horrific human rights simply because they offer them the most cash. 

Assigning labels like “horrific human rights” is a matter of perspective. History is always written by the winners.

[Rory4Pres]

I know the vast majority of players who want to make it on the pga are forced to go through the korn ferry tour (among other tours).  (unless you do awesome in a couple sponorship events some get).  

 

(I'm not certain on this, but I'm pretty sure that's how it is for "most").

 

They really force their hand and a lot of guys really struggle to make a decent living playing on the korn ferry.  Obviously the top guys on the pga make a lot of money with sponorships and fly in private learjets from event to event.  They have way more money and have a crew of employees to manage their every need.  I'd really like to see a better system in place to allow top performing college athletes get a 1 year tour status and other options like that.  Also, guaranteed money on the korn ferry so these guys aren't dead broke, would be nice.  

 

All in all, a little competition isn't a bad thing for the pga but cherry picking the tour's top players is.  Just imagine if China had offered MJ and Kobe $100mil/year to play in their league back in the day.

 

I hope this push makes the PGA (and it's family of tours) better and gives more players an opportunity to make a decent living.  

Edited May 20, 2021 by Rory4Pres

[bscinstnct]

4 minutes ago, Rory4Pres said:

I know the vast majority of players who want to make it on the pga are forced to go through the korn ferry tour (among other tours).  (unless you do awesome in a couple sponorship events some get).  

 

(I'm not certain on this, but I'm pretty sure that's how it is for "most").

 

They really force their hand and a lot of guys really struggle to make a decent living playing on the korn ferry.  Obviously the top guys on the pga make a lot of money with sponorships and fly in private learjets from event to event.  They have way more money and have a crew of employees to manage their every need.  I'd really like to see a better system in place to allow top performing college athletes get a 1 year tour status and other options like that.  Also, guaranteed money on the korn ferry so these guys aren't dead broke, would be nice.  

 

All in all, a little competition isn't a bad thing for the pga but cherry picking the tour's top players is.  Just imagine if China had offered MJ and Kobe $100mil/year to play in their league back in the day.

 

I hope this push makes the PGA (and it's family of tours) better and gives more players an opportunity to make a decent living.  

That’s what I say.

 

PGL will need a “farm system” of their own. They could offer college seniors or juniors money. Guys that look prime for the PGA Tour might not budge. But offer 10MM guaranteed to a college kid who has promise but no *guarantee if checks 💰 on the PGA tour... and they might listen..

[Rory4Pres]

1 minute ago, bscinstnct said:

That’s what I say.

 

PGL will need a “farm system” of their own. They could offer college seniors or juniors money. Guys that look prime for the PGA Tour might not budge. But offer 10MM guaranteed to a college kid who has promise but no *guarantee if checks 💰 on the PGA tour... and they might listen..

totally agree.  They don't even need to offer $10 mil.  Just start a tour with quality courses/coverage and there will be guys lined up down the street to play on it if they can make a decent living after all the travel costs.  Heck, offering them free travel and hotel stays would be a smart move.  

 

Rather than pick off the top players, they should be sniping up and comers, then focus on keeping them when they are in their prime and famous.  

 

In 10 or 20 years, this tour would/could compete directly with the pga if ran well.

[cdnglf]

What "extreme responses"?

[smashdn]

22 minutes ago, Rory4Pres said:

They really force their hand and a lot of guys really struggle to make a decent living playing on the korn ferry.  Obviously the top guys on the pga make a lot of money with sponorships and fly in private learjets from event to event.  They have way more money and have a crew of employees to manage their every need.  I'd really like to see a better system in place to allow top performing college athletes get a 1 year tour status and other options like that.  Also, guaranteed money on the korn ferry so these guys aren't dead broke, would be nice. 

 

From - https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-sports-abb214e18e8c48aa821aa17c5d4bb4fe#:~:text=The Korn Ferry Four%2C the,least %24180%2C000 starting in 2023.

 

"The Korn Ferry Four, the circuit right below the PGA Tour, informed players on Tuesday that prize money will be a minimum of $1 million for tournaments starting in 2023. Minimum purses now are at $600,000, with $108,000 going to the winner. First place would be worth at least $180,000 starting in 2023."

 

Got to win. Sort of like a minimum wage job, the KF Tour is not designed for "journey men" to linger and make a living.  It is a stepping stone.  It is organic chemistry, it weeds out people who can't hang.

[smashdn]

11 minutes ago, Rory4Pres said:

Heck, offering them free travel and hotel stays would be a smart move.

 

Getting your agent to get you endorsed by Hyatt, Wyndam or Hilton and Shell would also be a smart move.  Get your lodging covered and some help on gas.

[bscinstnct]

15 minutes ago, Rory4Pres said:

totally agree.  They don't even need to offer $10 mil.  Just start a tour with quality courses/coverage and there will be guys lined up down the street to play on it if they can make a decent living after all the travel costs.  Heck, offering them free travel and hotel stays would be a smart move.  

 

Rather than pick off the top players, they should be sniping up and comers, then focus on keeping them when they are in their prime and famous.  

 

In 10 or 20 years, this tour would/could compete directly with the pga if ran well.

 

Well, I was thinking a well thought out “draft” process. It’s a team thing, right?

 

So, each team needs to scout talent, work with a budget, and decide who to make offers too.

 

I agree, there will be tons of good players who have questionable viability on the PGA Tour who would jump at it. 
 

But to build a good, long term, stable of top talent that will drive tv revenue, they need to find and sign the next potential Brysons and Hovlands etc. 

 

This would be more easily done with non-us kids and players. But they could hone in on some great  us college talent.

 

Take Akshay Bhatia. Just picking him out of the blue. I think he’s grinding it out, great promise but not making much money. You offer him 5MM, he may bite. 
 

And I wonder if it’s legal for the PGA Tour to banish guys who play in the PGL? Or what the players think of that kind of heavy handed treatment from a organization that is nothing without them. 

 

I mean, what would the players Union think of that?

 

You have a fellow pro who you know for years. He hasn’t been doing great on the PGA Tour and he gets an offer from the PGL. Are you fine with him being lifetime banned from coming back to the PGA Tour?

Edited May 20, 2021 by bscinstnct

[Dave230]

The $40m social media thing was such pandering to the players, surely that money could have been spent better on the development of golf or something.

 

And they claim that the PGA Tour doesn't have appearance fees, it appeared like a little bribe to keep the big boys. They've already brought in that Wyndham standings thing of more "free" money and of course the obscene money of the Fed-Ex Cup rankings.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

39 minutes ago, JeffreySpicoli said:

Assigning labels like “horrific human rights” is a matter of perspective. History is always written by the winners.

Yeah I guess you might want to ask a few women there. 

[King_Slender]

The SGL will be the USFL of golf.  Even though they are their own events, I don't think the USGA, the R&A, or The Masters will think something like the SGL will be good for the game.  They will ostracize those players that go for a huge cash grab.  

 

The PGA Tour has the ability to say, if you go to the SGL, you lose status on the Tour completely.  Enjoy your money, but if you want to come back, sorry, go to the Korn Ferry Tour. 

[CaseyC]

14 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

You have a fellow pro who you know for years. He hasn’t been doing great on the PGA Tour and he gets an offer from the PGL. Are you fine with him being lifetime banned from coming back to the PGA Tour?

 

If he isn't doing well on the PGA Tour, a lifetime ban would not be needed.  One or two years on the PGL and the player would lose status on the PGA Tour and would need to earn his tour status back

[JaNelson38]

4 hours ago, Man_O_War said:

Make a better offer to players? 

Compete like a true capitalist system (as fake as...) 

 

 

You make an "extreme response" to make players actually think about how good they have it on the PGA Tour.  

 

Ultimatums happen all the time in the professional world, no matter the business.  Money matters, but so does all the other stuff - the freedom to set your own schedule, to handle your personal business as you see fit, the pension plan when you're done playing (something that doesn't get talked about enough).  There are plenty of jobs out there that don't pay the same as others, but the benefits associated with the job often make up for it and them some.  The PGA Tour has simply said that if chasing the money of the SGL is what you want, fine....but you can't then take advantage of all the things offered by us.

 

Its an interesting stance that may not stand up legally, but its an understandable stance in order to not let this new league even get off the ground.

Edited May 20, 2021 by JaNelson38

[Rory4Pres]

Getting banned from the pga wouldn't be the worst thing ever...

 

Say you are 23, very talented but broke....  Rather than struggle your way up the korn ferry and pga and hope for a break out win, you get offered $1 million and end up going and playing 3 or 4 years on the SGL.  Between sponsorships and tournament winnings, you clear $5 million after costs, taxes, caddies, agent, etc in your bank.

 

You are then 27, have $5 million net worth.  You could live off the interest, never work a job unless you wanted to and drink beer and play small cash or for fun games at your local course whenever you pleased.

 

#signmeup

[JaNelson38]

33 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

From - https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-sports-abb214e18e8c48aa821aa17c5d4bb4fe#:~:text=The Korn Ferry Four%2C the,least %24180%2C000 starting in 2023.

 

"The Korn Ferry Four, the circuit right below the PGA Tour, informed players on Tuesday that prize money will be a minimum of $1 million for tournaments starting in 2023. Minimum purses now are at $600,000, with $108,000 going to the winner. First place would be worth at least $180,000 starting in 2023."

 

Got to win. Sort of like a minimum wage job, the KF Tour is not designed for "journey men" to linger and make a living.  It is a stepping stone.  It is organic chemistry, it weeds out people who can't hang.

 

The top 60 on the KF Tour money list in the most recent completed season (2019) all earned 6 figures in purse money.  Those guys don't play for peanuts out there.  Plus, a good share of the decent KF guys get into a handful of PGA Tour events each year.  While its certainly not an "end goal" for the guys there, its not like you couldn't make a living doing it if that's the highest level you reached.

[bscinstnct]

29 minutes ago, CaseyC said:

 

If he isn't doing well on the PGA Tour, a lifetime ban would not be needed.  One or two years on the PGL and the player would lose status on the PGA Tour and would need to earn his tour status back

 

Ok, well say, hypothetically, it’s a guy like Justin Rose. He’s had a great career, been a strong contributor to the tour.

 

You, as a fellow pro who has known him for 20 years, going to stand by and watch him get banned for life because he wants to try a new venture?

 

No, that’s bad business. You wish him luck and keep the door open. Assuming he doesn’t actively make efforts to poach players himself or “steal venues”. 
 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by bscinstnct

[JaNelson38]

9 minutes ago, Rory4Pres said:

Getting banned from the pga wouldn't be the worst thing ever...

 

Say you are 23, very talented but broke....  Rather than struggle your way up the korn ferry and pga and hope for a break out win, you get offered $1 million and end up going and playing 3 or 4 years on the SGL.  Between sponsorships and tournament winnings, you clear $5 million after costs, taxes, caddies, agent, etc in your bank.

 

You are then 27, have $5 million net worth.  You could live off the interest, never work a job unless you wanted to and drink beer and play small cash or for fun games at your local course whenever you pleased.

 

#signmeup

 

If you're good enough for the SGL to offer you seven figures to play for them, why wouldn't you play the KF Tour for one season and get your PGA Tour card?  The top 25 on the KF Tour all make pretty good money.

 

Collin Morikawa is 24.  Talented amateurs with a desire to turn pro are playing in pro events far sooner than age 23.  Many top ams leave college early to turn pro (ie Jordan Spieth).

Edited May 20, 2021 by JaNelson38