Why is the PGA tour so scared and resorting to extreme responses to super tour idea?

[CaseyC]

4 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Look at BK

 

Was one of what I’m assuming are a bunch of promising good college golfers who come out every yeeae. 

 

Started on the Euro challenge tour and had to earn his Euro tour card. 
 

But, what if some sharp PGL scout had recruited him in college.

 

Offer him 5MM, immediate access to their best events. Plus the payouts at events are 2MM. 
 

He just might think about that. 

 

 

 

Brooks was known as only caring about Majors.  Winning Majors motivated him

[Shilgy]

17 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Look at BK

 

Was one of what I’m assuming are a bunch of promising good college golfers who come out every yeeae. 

 

Started on the Euro challenge tour and had to earn his Euro tour card. 
 

But, what if some sharp PGL scout had recruited him in college.

 

Offer him 5MM, immediate access to their best events. Plus the payouts at events are 2MM. 
 

He just might think about that. 

 

 

If he did he would still be making $5m + a year instead of much more.  And have zero major trophies in his cupboard.

[bscinstnct]

11 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

If he did he would still be making $5m + a year instead of much more.  And have zero major trophies in his cupboard.

 

20/20

 

But I imagine there’s an all American eatin ramen noodles who could go for 5MM ; )

[CaseyC]

2 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

But I imagine there’s an all American eatin ramen noodles who could go for 5MM ; )

 

But do you want to watch him play golf?

[Soloman1]

I'd go just for the ramen...

 

 

[CaseyC]

Imagine were Club Pro Guy would be today if he had the opportunity to play the Super League instead of Mexican Mini Tour....

 

🙂

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

20/20

 

But I imagine there’s an all American eatin ramen noodles who could go for 5MM ; )

BK is, of course, a bad example because notoriously all he thinks about is majors.

 

A better example might be the guy he went to Europe with, Peter Uihlein.  He’s struggled to get to the big tour.

[bscinstnct]

16 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

BK is, of course, a bad example because notoriously all he thinks about is majors.

 

A better example might be the guy he went to Europe with, Peter Uihlein.  He’s struggled to get to the big tour.

 

Exactly, and that’s where, if another truly well-funded, global, entity comes into play with long term vision, it could get interesting.

 

You could have competition for young amateur talent. 
 

You and I don’t necessarily know how others think.

 

Hershel Walker must have dreamed his whole life about the NFL and he was guaranteed a huge deal and a future in that league. But he went with the USFL!

 

Same with golf. 
 

How about Tony Finau? What if the PGL had offered him 10MM when he was 18 and didn’t know for sure he’d make it on tour?

[miamistomp]

2 hours ago, jholz said:

 

 

The development of modern Anglo-American sport has always been caught between the two poles of "open competition" and "revenue generation." Long ago, people like Connie Mack came to the conclusion that "open competition" was a losing economic model. He abandoned the Player's League and rejoined the National League. He then learned that he could earn more money with a losing team than a winning one.

 

 

 I get your point but the Players League, I believe , was player owned and operated and players were paid by ticket revenue

  Mack returned to the NL because the Players folded in a year

[miamistomp]

19 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

How about Tony Finau? What if the PGL had offered him 10MM when he was 18 and didn’t know for sure he’d make it on tour?

 Maybe he would be winning 😱

[Shilgy]

19 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Exactly, and that’s where, if another truly well-funded, global, entity comes into play with long term vision, it could get interesting.

 

You could have competition for young amateur talent. 
 

You and I don’t necessarily know how others think.

 

Hershel Walker must have dreamed his whole life about the NFL and he was guaranteed a huge deal and a future in that league. But he went with the USFL!

 

Same with golf. 
 

How about Tony Finau? What if the PGL had offered him 10MM when he was 18 and didn’t know for sure he’d make it on tour?

I get what you’re saying but really? Why would they throw $10m at a young Finau when they could get other unknowns for $100k? 
 

They are throwing big money numbers around at stars…not fodder to be teammates.

[bscinstnct]

7 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

I get what you’re saying but really? Why would they throw $10m at a young Finau when they could get other unknowns for $100k? 
 

They are throwing big money numbers around at stars…not fodder to be teammates.

 

Cause that’s what scouts do. They spot potential. 
 

You find a Patrick Reed in college. A guy who doesn’t fit in, maybe the “establishment” don’t like him.

 

But he has the potential to be #8 in the world.

 

You tell him tomorrow he could have 5MM in the bank and be a highly valued part of the tour.

 

Tellin ya, could be the birth of a whole new industry.

 

The pro golf scout,

 

 

 

 

 

[Shilgy]

1 minute ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Cause that’s what scouts do. They spot potential. 
 

You find a Patrick Reed in college. A guy who doesn’t fit in, maybe the “establishment” don’t like him.

 

But he has the potential to be #8 in the world.

 

You tell him tomorrow he could have 5MM in the bank and be a highly valued part of the tour.

 

Tellin ya, could be the birth of a whole new industry.

 

The pro golf scout,

 

 

 

 

 

Well, since the league won’t be able to get OWGR points the honest approach would be to tell the kid he has the potential to get to #8 in the world but he will never get ranked at all. Which also means the $5m is it. Odds are he would never see a dime of  endorsement cash.

[bscinstnct]

25 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Well, since the league won’t be able to get OWGR points the honest approach would be to tell the kid he has the potential to get to #8 in the world but he will never get ranked at all. Which also means the $5m is it. Odds are he would never see a dime of  endorsement cash.

 

Yeah, it’s a tall order, depends how big the budget is and how long term/strategic the thinking is.

 

I can’t think it’s viable really.

 

But, fun mental exercise in problem solving ; )

[Shilgy]

3 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Yeah, it’s a tall order, depends how big the budget is and how long term/strategic the thinking is.

 

I can’t think it’s viable really.

 

But, fun mental exercise in problem solving ; )

I just feel this Saudi oil money wants big splash or nothing at all. They’ll pay $5m for Taylor Swift to sing at a sweet 16 birthday party but are not paying bsc and hilgy $10.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Shilgy

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

I just feel this Saudi oil money wants big splash or nothing at all. They’ll pay $5m for Taylor Swift to sing at a sweet 16 birthday party but are not paying bsc and hilgy $10.

They're paying @bscinstnct right now! 😀

[bscinstnct]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

They're paying @bscinstnct right now! 😀

 

If they saw my patented dance move I do at wedding, them pay me 50MM!

 

Here it is at 1:10 seconds ; )

 

 

[App Alum]

6 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

You have to have a strategy. Banning players is not a strategy.

 

Let’s say the PGL signs a talented college kid with a big bonus. The kid turns out to be the next Tiger. He’s killing it.

 

You going to not allow him on the PGA Tour?

 

You see?

But how do we know he is killing it if he’s only beating 10-15 guys each week who aren’t on the PGA Tour?

[bscinstnct]

14 minutes ago, App Alum said:

But how do we know he is killing it if he’s only beating 10-15 guys each week who aren’t on the PGA Tour?

 

Cause you do this, word get around ; )

 

 

[oikos1]

Pros might be banned from the PGA Tour, but how many majors would they really miss?

 

Last I checked, the PGA Tour does not run the four majors or the Ryder Cup.  Perhaps their leverage isn't as strong as it may appear.

[tacklingdummy]

9 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

So how does adding another level help that?  Wouldn't that same argument then just take place at that next higher level?

 

"When you have multiple Super League winners competing on the PGA Tour and struggling to get back into the Super League, you know it is not great. Just looks at the names on the PGA Tour now." 

 

Translation: More big money tournaments = more spots for players. Simple equation. Quoting me and adding in your own words to my comment changes the meaning of my statement. 

 

[hunterdog]

The PGA Tour will need to fight the Saudi Golf League and Premier Golf League hard.

 

Assume that the Saudis are able to convince 40 of the more popular players to sign-up (Westwood, Mickelson, Scott, Koepka, DeChambeau, etc) and the PGAT continues with diminished star power and advertised by the media as the JVs, why would viewers turn in to watch what essentially will be considered the new Korn Ferry Tour?  It’s a niche viewing sport as it is.  Loss of viewership will translate to loss of sponsors and TV dollars, probably resulting in fewer events.  With loss of dollars it would harder to justify the sponsorship of the KFT.  All of which will decrease money into the pockets of most of the Tour players.

 

As the PGAT diminishes, where will the Saudis get their future star powered players?  They are looking at limited fields with many of the players past their primes, playing limited field no cut events.  so no organic growth.  Sounds pretty much like BS exhibition golf.  I think we can call it the Champions Tour but for slightly younger players.  The initial players make some nice money, probably have to live in the MidEast for part of the year (unlikely to bring wives and families) and then?  I just don’t see how the economics work for the long run.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by hunterdog
Misspellings

[hunterdog]

7 hours ago, oikos1 said:

Pros might be banned from the PGA Tour, but how many majors would they really miss?

 

Last I checked, the PGA Tour does not run the four majors or the Ryder Cup.  Perhaps their leverage isn't as strong as it may appear.

Besides past champion status, how would they qualify?  I guess, for the US Open and the Open, there is local qualifying.  

[GoGoErky]

7 hours ago, oikos1 said:

Pros might be banned from the PGA Tour, but how many majors would they really miss?

 

Last I checked, the PGA Tour does not run the four majors or the Ryder Cup.  Perhaps their leverage isn't as strong as it may appear.

You need world ranking points or some other form of exemption. If you are playing in a league that offers neither you miss out pretty quick as your world ranking drops 

[Volgolfer]

Here's an idea.  Play well and get paid; play poorly and you don't.

 

Tired of the "everybody gets an orange slice" mentality and I think (hope) a lot of us are.  No one "deserves" anything, it needs to be earned or it's worthless.  I am proud to support the tour because of their pay for play aspect - no guaranteed contracts, etc.  If that changes they'll have one (or more) less fan.

[MtlJeff]

5 minutes ago, Volgolfer said:

Here's an idea.  Play well and get paid; play poorly and you don't.

 

Tired of the "everybody gets an orange slice" mentality and I think (hope) a lot of us are.  No one "deserves" anything, it needs to be earned or it's worthless.  I am proud to support the tour because of their pay for play aspect - no guaranteed contracts, etc.  If that changes they'll have one (or more) less fan.

 

I would say 99.9% of people have some sort of guaranteed money as part of their job contract

 

The PGA tour is essentially a 100% commission program. This actually isn't that common in pro sports or otherwise

 

They benefit from sponsorships, but these are not really related to the tour itself. They need to play golf to get these sponsorships, but not necessarily on the PGA tour, if another vessel existed

[bscinstnct]

9 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I would say 99.9% of people have some sort of guaranteed money as part of their job contract

 

The PGA tour is essentially a 100% commission program. This actually isn't that common in pro sports or otherwise

 

They benefit from sponsorships, but these are not really related to the tour itself. They need to play golf to get these sponsorships, but not necessarily on the PGA tour, if another vessel existed

 

Good point. It’s a foreign (no pun intended ; ) idea in golf, but the idea could appeal to players. 
 

If there’s a component of guaranteed comp with additional incentive comp based on “team” and individual performance. 
 

 

[smashdn]

8 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

Translation: More big money tournaments = more spots for players. Simple equation. Quoting me and adding in your own words to my comment changes the meaning of my statement. 

 

 

I am not sure that just adding more tournaments means more money though.  In the short term yes, but I think you are spreading a finite amount of interest in golf thinner.  Eventually the sponsors are going to figure out that what they paid 5mil for is not getting them the same value as it once did.

 

There is also a finite amount of talent.  Taking the best talent and concentrating it in one league harms the tours the talent is pulled from.  You pull a Phil, Rory, DJ, etc you don't backfill their spots on the PGA Tour and ET with that same level of talent.  You backfill with KF and Challenge Tour grads.  Except for the top league, the others get watered down.  It's certainly more spots.  But the talent hasn't changed, only where they are playing.  The PGA Tour would be at the status of the KF Tour.

 

"Joe Blow can't quite break through to the Super League so he is honing his game on the PGA Tour."  It becomes the stepping stone.

[golfandfishing]

22 hours ago, smashdn said:

What happens when they have an injury or their games are off or they change swing coaches?

What happens when the consumer eyes are not on this thing and the sponsors start leaving the players or cutting back the amount of the deal?

Those players will be invited to visit the embassy. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

On 5/20/2021 at 8:48 AM, Man_O_War said:

Make a better offer to players? 

Compete like a true capitalist system (as fake as...) 

 

Seems to me the PGA Tour already has a better offer. Players have the right to speak out about the pga. Whereas joining a league funded by the Saudis leaves little room for tolerance, and if you criticize or disrespect them the golfer might be dismembered. Remember this guy?