Stiff vs Regular Flex Fitting Issue

DrOldSchool · May 20, 2021

So about me - I've played for a long time and am a "feel player" which i guess is old school, but thats me in many ways. Not the longest hitter in my group but not the shortest either. Low ball flight, right handed prefer to hit draws.

I did a full fitting for the first time ever earlier this year and they suggested stiff flex shafts, which I have never used before as my swing speed is always "on the borderline" as I've been told in the past.

As I played more this year I am not getting the same feel with these clubs as my old ones, and I am thinking it's the stiff/regular difference but I do not know enough about shafts to really point the finger there. The main problem are the hybrids as they went from the strength of my bag to something that feels like I am swinging a broomstick. When I get them right (usually off the tee) they are fantastic, but otherwise they produce a very low (like 5' or less) ball flight and they do not go in the direction I intend and feel horrible. Good to bad ratio with the hybrids are like 1:7. The irons are kind of the same, but not as dramatic - when I get them flush they feel great - better than anything I've ever hit, but when I miss it's a low clunk that feels horrible. They also do not spin like my old irons.

I suspect the feel difference is mainly the shafts and wonder if going back to regular flex will solve the issues. I am going to go to a different fitter to discuss this next week, but wanted to know if I am onto something or if I am just driving myself insane.

Edited May 20, 2021 by DrOldSchool

Seattlegolfnut · May 20, 2021

Hi there! Nice on taking the step to do a fitting.

Couple things -- you are a 4 hcp so you can get around the course, and sounds like you have really good feel in hands with your clubs. That will typically mean you'll have a bit of a longer getting-used-to period here. Also, since you are a decent player, it's not out of the question you were feeling your way into good ball striking with shafts that may not have been optimal. In other words, making some little compensations. And if you're now in more optimal shafts, you may need to undo any compensations you've built in.

Curious -- did you get the same exact shafts you hit / tested in your fitting? One brand's stiff is not the same with another. Different shafts will definitely have different spin characteristics. Also, some brand's regular is not the same profile as their own stiff (TT Dyn Gold being one). Others, the profiles are more consistent across flexes (KBS being one).

As for the hybrids, I found getting the right shaft profile for how you swing (like a wood or like an iron) is equally important to flex/weight. That's been super critical (for me). For a long while, I was playing a similar shaft profile as my driver & FW, but always swung it more like a long iron. Finally light bulb went off and I got a shaft that better matched profile of my irons and it's been literal game changer. Again, curious if you just stepped up flex in the same shaft you previously had or changed it to something new entirely. Either way, would be good to know if you changed the profile in addition to the CPM.

Lastly, I'll say I'm borderline swing speed between typical stiff and x-stiff in most shaft families. Similar to how you describe being on the R / S cusp. I've done many fittings over the years and most of the time the fitter hands me an X shaft based on swing speed and I always end up backing down since I have a relatively smooth transition and struggle to load a stiffer shaft. So if you go to another fitter, see if they are competently fitting you for your whole swing, not just based on swing speed. Most fitters will, but others just take short cuts or don't really know what they are doing.

Stuart_G · May 20, 2021

43 minutes ago, DrOldSchool said:

I suspect the feel difference is mainly the shafts and wonder if going back to regular flex will solve the issues. I am going to go to a different fitter to discuss this next week, but wanted to know if I am onto something or if I am just driving myself insane.

That's a distinct possibility. Some people (but not all) can be very dependent on a certain feel of the shafts loading and unloading to properly control and time their swing. And many "fitters" are too fixated on the swing speed when selecting the flex and not nearly enough on the players perception of the feel from the shaft. But.....

There is not standard for flex. One can actually go from an R flex in one model to a Stiff flex in a different model and end up with a stiffer shaft. So we'd need to know more specifically what shaft you were playing before and what shaft you were fit into. Now if the shafts do feel too stiff and unresponsive, than it likely a good indication that it could be the stiffness contributing to the issues but hard to say how much or if something else might also be contributing to the problems.

A lot of other things could have changed as a result of the fitting that could also explain the change in performance. Even just in terms of the shaft, the shaft weight can be very important to rhythm and timing and tempo. Some "fitters" tend to push lighter weight shafts in an effort to sell more distance to the buyer - but that can potentially have a negative effect on the consistency and control of the swing. Swing weight is another thing that might have changed.

Playing length, lie, face angle in hybrids, woods and drivers can also be an important factor although based on your description, they don't sound like the main issue. So I'd stick to first looking at stiffness and weight changes.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Stuart_G

Seattlegolfnut · May 20, 2021

2 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

Even just in terms of the shaft, the shaft weight can be very important to rhythm and timing and tempo.

So true! I've found weight to be super critical. Never gave that a first thought let alone a second thought earlier in my playing days. That was a breakthrough I learned on this forum reading through a ton of posts by you and Howard and others over the years...

DrOldSchool · May 21, 2021

Thanks for the responses. In the past I always just went to Golf Galaxy/Pga Superstore and demoed clubs until something felt right and I was satisfied with the monitor output. For whatever reason that led me to Ping clubs, and I would just buy stock clubs. So I had in my bag:

G400 Driver (alta 55 R flex)

G400 3w (alta 65 R flex)

G400 3-5 Hybrids (alta 70 r flex)

I (2015 aka ie1) irons 6-9 (blue dot - Ping CFS r shafts)

Glide wedges

When I started the fitting process I did the irons first, with purpose. I was struggling off the tee with a smother hook to start the year, and even when I chased my handicap into the 2's last year I was struggling hitting my 3w off the turf. So the irons were with the full-time fitter and we landed on the srixon ZX5's 5-A with true temper 95s shafts, -2 lie +2 loft. sand and lob are zip cores with true temper dynamic gold shafts. As I said before when I hit these right they feel so pure and have a great ball flight. The misses are more clunky than the past though, and the ball does not spin as much upon landing. I used to carry the 5h because I couldn't hit a 5i well, but this one has become more of a go-to club because of the struggles I outline below.

The fitter then connected me with an assistant pro for some lessons on getting off the tee with more consistency. After the initial meeting I signed up for a 5 lesson package. Little did I realize at the time that the assistant pro treated this a gateway to completely rebuilding my swing as if I never played before (I've been playing longer than he's been alive). So we started with the grip and completely disagreed about it and it went downhill from there as I was just looking to get over a fault and not start over - I don't have time to commit to that nor was I paying for even more lessons that he wanted me to do. It became apparent he did most his work with junior golfers that had time to spend doing what he wanted and fitting into his mold.

I asked to use the final lesson I paid for as the hybrid/driver fitting and he said he couldn't transfer to the fitter but he would do it. Well when we did it the driver distances and numbers were very oddly low (like 30-40 yards short and like 1300 spin low), and 1/3 wouldn't even register. He hands me an epic 4w and per the numbers off the mat I was hitting it further than the drivers I was testing. But when I walked out on the grass and tried to hit it I literally couldn't - everything was a duff.

The hybrids though felt pure, though I only swung the 4h off the grass. They were again stock ping g425 hybrids with alta cb 70s shafts. So I just picked them up at dicks 2, 3, 4h. I had carried a g400 2h in the past and loved it until the head flew off and when it was repaired it felt worse than what I am saying now, so I went to the 3w then (off the tee the 3w was always great, otherwise not so much).

So I never replaced the driver, and swung my way out of the smother hook to the point that I've been hitting some push blocks and even a cut now and then in recent rounds, which is very odd for me. But my handicap is now just under 6 because of the early season tee issues, or that I am out of position when trying to play the hybrids. The old hybrids were so consistent, and these just do not feel right off the ground. I love the stinger with the 2h and it is performing the closest to what I want/expect. But I cannot get the others up in the air with any consistency unless it's from the tee, and that is a problem.

I intend to redo the driver fitting with the new fitter who has a strong local reputation. But like I said I am curious if R flex shafts in the hybrids are the way to go, or if I should just return them or sell them and go back to what worked before I undertook this endeavor.

ksf87 · May 30, 2021

Very interesting topic as I am facing a similar situation. I got a full bag fitting a few days ago and with my SS I am on the lower end for a Stiff shaft. However I prefer the feeling of a Regular shaft and it helps me with timing. Was fitted for the following shafts:

Irons: Project X LZ 5.0 (R flex)

Woods/ Driver: Hzrdus Smoke Black 5.5 (R+ flex)

Hopefully the right choice in the end but those gave me the best feel/ result during the fitting.

Seattlegolfnut · May 30, 2021

1 hour ago, ksf87 said:

...those gave me the best feel/ result during the fitting.

That’s really what’s most important not what’s marked on the shafts. And then hopefully those results carry over to the course. Good luck!⛳

ksf87 · May 30, 2021

57 minutes ago, Seattlegolfnut said:

That’s really what’s most important not what’s marked on the shafts. And then hopefully those results carry over to the course. Good luck!⛳

Thank you! 🏌️‍Glad I was working with a great fitter!

Edited May 30, 2021 by ksf87

DrOldSchool · May 30, 2021

To follow up on my end, I went to the new fitter last Wednesday. After about 3-4 swings with my 7i he was pretty much convinced that the previous fitting was incorrect and could tell my usual misses without asking. We demoed regular vs stiff in several clubs and every time the regular improved the key numbers, and I was more satisfied with the feel. It was lightyears more detailed than the first fitter.

I was surprised that my current Driver actually measured out better than others, or at least on par enough that changing made no real sense. But the fitter got his club rep from Srixon on the phone while I was there and they are changing the iron shafts for free. I called Ping when I got home regarding the hybrids and they are changing them out as well at no charge. Good customer service still exists somewhere I guess!