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If you have a strong right hand grip are you rotating face open on the way back like the feeling of right hand palm to the sky or are you keeping the face closed with the feeling of right palm facing away from you . A young friend needs help and i honestly am not sure what is best . Hope i described it well 

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People, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.    But, I have a strong grip and have taken many lessons from Jake Gilmer who is part of George Gankas Golf. I’ve been working on making sure my fa

Similar style here, fade with woods and hybrids, irons pretty straight. I don't think you or I literally stay-back (clean contact would be an issue) but the big forward lateral move (either hip-slide

I play a very strong grip and do not rotate my hands at all. Makes for simplicity. You have to keep your head behind the ball though. Forward movement spells duckhook!   BT

People, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. 
 

But, I have a strong grip and have taken many lessons from Jake Gilmer who is part of George Gankas Golf. I’ve been working on making sure my face angle matches my spine angle. 
 

So, I would never rotate the face open on my takeaway. That’s a death move for all the things I’m working on. 

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I have a strong grip..... no rotation. 

 

I feel lucky that the grip that feels comfy also has the variable of rotating removed.  Looks tough to time that rotation perfectly for contact, or else it goes left or right 🦆

 

I think Steve Pratt calls us flappers haha ya I know

I try and like my own posts but can't figure out how...

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I play a very strong grip and do not rotate my hands at all. Makes for simplicity. You have to keep your head behind the ball though. Forward movement spells duckhook!

 

BT

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I realize that everyone in this thread has said that they don't/you shouldn't rotate the forearms at all going back, but I wonder if folks are doing it some (but naturally, subconsciously, and/or not a lot) already, and so they think they aren't.

 

I've found that I'm capable of taking the club back in such a way that it's closed at the top (think right palm facing more out toward the ball than toward the sky), and then I close it more on the way down/through impact (hook off the planet). I've also realized that I've had the face shut at the top, and then opened it on the way down/through impact (weak, slappy shot). Ultimately, I've come to realize that if the gradual rolling of the forearms doesn't necessarily come naturally to you, then you might need to think about it initially to incorporate it into your swing.

 

...Unless you think that it absolutely SHOULDN'T happen, of course.

 

I think back to one of Monte's first videos where he's swinging the club around him parallel to the ground. He might have had an alignment stick in the ground like a t-ball tee. When slowly making swings parallel to the ground, and as the right arm folds, the club face of his iron essentially opens 90° (points at the sky) by the end of the backswing. It closes back to square out in front of him, and then it points down at the left arm folds in the follow through. As I recall, the point of this video was that that's the swing -- just on a tilted plane, at the ball on the ground.

 

I think everyone can agree that rolling anything open right at take-away (where the club head goes inside, and the hands usually push away from the body) is a no-no. But shouldn't the club face naturally and gradually "open," a la Monte's video, and via some "roll," by the top of the backswing?

 

I'd definitely like to hear more thoughts on this.

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Concerning the feels - right palm away at p3 is associated with the right wrist extending, ditto the top waiter tray.

 

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On 5/26/2021 at 4:29 PM, Ri_Redneck said:

I play a very strong grip and do not rotate my hands at all. Makes for simplicity. You have to keep your head behind the ball though. Forward movement spells duckhook!

 

BT

I get what you're saying - I play a stronger grip and try as hard as I can to "hold" it off and not let the right hand turn the club over. I might be wrong here, but you're a "closed-face" player and you have to rotate your lower body aggressively to square the club at impact. Lee Trevino was the most famous closed facer. If you don't turn back and move your belt-buckle to the target hard on the way down...you'll hit that hook.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/28/2021 at 6:57 AM, KMeloney said:

I realize that everyone in this thread has said that they don't/you shouldn't rotate the forearms at all going back, but I wonder if folks are doing it some (but naturally, subconsciously, and/or not a lot) already, and so they think they aren't.

 

I've found that I'm capable of taking the club back in such a way that it's closed at the top (think right palm facing more out toward the ball than toward the sky), and then I close it more on the way down/through impact (hook off the planet). I've also realized that I've had the face shut at the top, and then opened it on the way down/through impact (weak, slappy shot). Ultimately, I've come to realize that if the gradual rolling of the forearms doesn't necessarily come naturally to you, then you might need to think about it initially to incorporate it into your swing.

 

...Unless you think that it absolutely SHOULDN'T happen, of course.

 

I think back to one of Monte's first videos where he's swinging the club around him parallel to the ground. He might have had an alignment stick in the ground like a t-ball tee. When slowly making swings parallel to the ground, and as the right arm folds, the club face of his iron essentially opens 90° (points at the sky) by the end of the backswing. It closes back to square out in front of him, and then it points down at the left arm folds in the follow through. As I recall, the point of this video was that that's the swing -- just on a tilted plane, at the ball on the ground.

 

I think everyone can agree that rolling anything open right at take-away (where the club head goes inside, and the hands usually push away from the body) is a no-no. But shouldn't the club face naturally and gradually "open," a la Monte's video, and via some "roll," by the top of the backswing?

 

I'd definitely like to hear more thoughts on this.

I think this is correct.  I have a strong grip, and my feel on the start of the takeaway is to keep my front elbow facing the ground until that arm is parallel to the ground.  So there’s no rotation of the arms until this point.   But combined with a big hip and shoulder turn, and here’s the key part, the trail elbow needs to be glued to the trail seam line of my shirt...with these things, the arms will naturally rotate at the top.  I can’t even feel it but it’s there.  In all honesty, the feel of the arms rotating just a little is washed out by the feeling of the trail hip getting deep, the trail leg beginning to straighten, etc.  To start the backswing, I feel like I’m squeezing my elbows together, and this gets the wrist working correctly and is my shallowing move so to speak.  Then it’s all rotation from here.  My stock shot with irons is a fade.

 

For me the forearms roll a little, it just happens late in the backswing, I can’t even notice it, I don’t actively try to manage forearm rotation in any conscience way, and it just happens in conjunction with a couple over things that are important to making it all work.  Hope this helps.

Edited by thed0n
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On 5/28/2021 at 8:38 PM, putterboy75 said:

I get what you're saying - I play a stronger grip and try as hard as I can to "hold" it off and not let the right hand turn the club over. I might be wrong here, but you're a "closed-face" player and you have to rotate your lower body aggressively to square the club at impact. Lee Trevino was the most famous closed facer. If you don't turn back and move your belt-buckle to the target hard on the way down...you'll hit that hook.

I’m absolutely not an expert by any means.  But for me, I don’t think of it as an aggressive rotation of the hips.  I think of it like this — at the top of my backswing my trail hip is deep, and to start my backswing, I try to catch my front hip depth to match my trail hip depth.  This is how my instructor described it and it’s stuck with me ever since.  It’s really hard to do so I’m hoping it happens naturally if everything else is right.  But if I think of it in terms of aggressive or fire, I’ll just early extend.

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On 5/28/2021 at 2:37 PM, mgoblue83 said:

Can you elaborate on this? Wouldn't hanging back behind the ball cause the hooks?

It doesn't for me. My stock shot is a slight fade. I setup with a slight tilt back, maybe 5*, and just stay there as I turn. If my shoulders move forward laterally, then I hook. I am going by feel only because I haven't gotten any slow-motion videos done of my swing yet. But I set my left hand so that rotation is very slight during the backswing and throughswing. I don't want to feel my hands releasing until the ball is gone.

 

BT

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/28/2021 at 11:38 PM, putterboy75 said:

I get what you're saying - I play a stronger grip and try as hard as I can to "hold" it off and not let the right hand turn the club over. I might be wrong here, but you're a "closed-face" player and you have to rotate your lower body aggressively to square the club at impact. Lee Trevino was the most famous closed facer. If you don't turn back and move your belt-buckle to the target hard on the way down...you'll hit that hook.

I don't feel like am trying to hold off the release. I am just setting up so that it happens when it needs to. Lower body rotation doesn't really feel that aggressive. I do drive hard with my legs though. The main key is to rotate and not sway.

 

If you mean by "closed face", in relation to my hands, you are correct. If I hold the club out in front of me in my left hand, with my thumb on the top of the shaft, the clubface appears about 40* closed.

 

BT

Edited by Ri_Redneck

 

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Rotating the clubface open spells disaster for most people because you have to rotate through impact and your timing has to be perfect to play good golf. I have done it for years now and it is a monster trying to learn to not roll my forearms during the takeaway.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Ri_Redneck said:

It doesn't for me. My stock shot is a slight fade. I setup with a slight tilt back, maybe 5*, and just stay there as I turn. If my shoulders move forward laterally, then I hook. I am going by feel only because I haven't gotten any slow-motion videos done of my swing yet. But I set my left hand so that rotation is very slight during the backswing and throughswing. I don't want to feel my hands releasing until the ball is gone.

 

BT

Similar style here, fade with woods and hybrids, irons pretty straight. I don't think you or I literally stay-back (clean contact would be an issue) but the big forward lateral move (either hip-slide or entire body movement) gets the club to stuck behind which shifts the club path too far inside and forces and earlier release to get to the ball, which when miss-timed just slightly causes a massive hook. At least for me (my personal issue is the early hip slide), feeling like I don't shift to the left early allows me the time to get the club working a bit more in front of me, which I think is the key for us strong grip players. I also set-up a bit open to make it a bit easier on me. Recently I have weakened my right-hand a little bit as well so I don't have to hold-off as hard, it is doing wonders with eliminating the snap-hook of the tee, I am even starting looking forward again to hit driver. Holding off the release too hard makes you want to get your hands in front which can encourage that early move you are talking about to help get the arms in the hold-off place.

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