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Thoughts on allowing fans to march down 18 with players?


Titleist84
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Looks like it wasn't planned.

 

"While we welcome enthusiastic fan engagement, we regret that a moment of high elation and pent-up emotion by spectators during the conclusion of yesterday's historic PGA Championship briefly overwhelmed security and made two players and their caddies feel vulnerable," said Seth Waugh, the PGA CEO, in a statement. "We always put player safety at the top of our list and are grateful order was restored. I have spoken to both players and apologized on behalf of the Association."

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1 hour ago, me05501 said:

 

That suggests that this was condoned by the PGA but that's not the impression I get. I think it was spontaneous and they lost control for a few minutes.  

 

Perhaps, but the same thing happened at the Tour Championship with Tiger and happens a lot at The Open Championship.  Seems to me that they might be allowing it. 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

Looks like it wasn't planned.

 

"While we welcome enthusiastic fan engagement, we regret that a moment of high elation and pent-up emotion by spectators during the conclusion of yesterday's historic PGA Championship briefly overwhelmed security and made two players and their caddies feel vulnerable," said Seth Waugh, the PGA CEO, in a statement. "We always put player safety at the top of our list and are grateful order was restored. I have spoken to both players and apologized on behalf of the Association."

 

Yeah, that sounds about right and that statement is good.  Not much more to say.    From an apology perspective, I might have left out the "feel" part but overall it's fine.

Edited by chigolfer1
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I loved seeing the crowd move down that fairway.  Now, security could have been better. So, do it better next time. No reason to eliminate it.

 

10,000s watch cycling over in Europe and stand right on the road, run along side them as they race.  At the top of climbs the crowds are huge.  Then as they approach the top there are barriers to separate the racers from the crowd.   It's great for fans, it's great for the sport. Yes, sh*t happens when dumb people do dumb things.  

 

The fans are the ones paying for their living, their jets, their mansions, etc.  Let them get involved to that extent.

 

I think someone is making way too much of the crowd.

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19 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

It was unfortunate and they were lucky it was “controlled” to the extent it was.  It happened, very popular win, but you could see a lot of buffoons in the crowd wanting to scream “encouragement” in Phil’s face and try to get a little slap in - boobery. Rushing basketball courts has become a joke for the most part. Football? Iowa fans carrying the goalposts out of the Metrodome years ago was a classic, everything else pales by comparison!

 

Seriously lucky nobody was injured, and they have real security at these tournaments for a reason so no point making things easy for the rare nut job  who may seize an opportunity. 
 

 

Yep... tour guys learn quick when walking near roped off gallery's.. don't stick your hand out to slap, fingers are exposed, only fist. Some moron could grab the players fingers and snap one.  Don't recall the hole but noticed one guy was coming at Phil fast though the crowd, he extended his arm to grab Phil, and a plain clothed LEO interceded.  Camera quickly turned away.

 

Today, more than ever, people are insecure, rude, and nutso with no boundaries. 

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2 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Yep... tour guys learn quick when walking near roped off gallery's.. don't stick your hand out to slap, fingers are exposed, only fist. Some moron could grab the players fingers and snap one.  Don't recall the hole but noticed one guy was coming at Phil fast though the crowd, he extended his arm to grab Phil, and a plain clothed LEO interceded.  Camera quickly turned away.

 

Today, more than ever, people are insecure, rude, and nutso with no boundaries. 

Yep, some trying to grab him, another pretty obvious loser, but a large guy, trying to approach pointing and yelling and wanting to get in Phil's face was cut off - I suppose he may have thought it was important to scream words of support up close and personal (no matter how weird that seems), looked like a pretty obvious guy to get out of the way.  Most just part of the herd, but just make it more difficult to protect from the ones that can't control their emotions.

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And like him or not, and way before Phil ever hit his iron into 18, Koepka was unreasonably surrounded for his approach shot and birdie was needed, may have made a difference (less likely after Phil hit, but that's not the point), and totally unfair to have to play that shot with the crowd basically pre-determining the outcome.

 

I still recall Jack Nicklaus at Baltusrol U.S. Open in 1980 quieting the crowd after he drained his birdie putt on 17 so Aoki could putt.  Crowd lost it on 18 and kind of a similar thing on a smaller scale with some of the crowd getting through the ropes, but not as intrusive -- that was also a wildly popular win with Jack coming out of a big slump.

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21 hours ago, me05501 said:

 

I always chuckle at these sweeping generalizations.

 

People of Jones's generation (the same ones who started and fought WW1 fwiw) were not "more civilized" than people today, nor were the people who cheered on the blood sport during the end days of the Roman Empire. There have always been gentlemen and boors and ever shall it be. Golf fans have often tended toward the "gentlemen" side of the ledger but no more. 

 

By all appearances, the Tour wants to cater *heavily* toward paying fans. They don't limit alcohol sales. They don't throw out the bababooey/get in the hole guys. Hell, they build an entire three/four-level grandstand around a par three in Arizona to create "an atmosphere" that feels "exciting." It's all based on making the fans feel like they're a part of the tournament and that is what the Tour thinks is important to its current and future success. This makes scenes like the closing moments of yesterday's tournament not only possible but predictable. 

 

What probably irked me the most was absolutely no acknowledgement of the waning but continuing pandemic. Supposedly everyone on property was supposed to wear a mask "unless actively eating or drinking." I saw close to zero adherence to this rule. The throng that followed up 18 would have been impossible if any sort of common sense or even concern for overall appearances had been upheld. The message is "It's over...go nuts." 

 

 

I think that last part has to do with the location.  When in Rome and all.    I won’t go deeper. But the state data is out there.  It’s been that way here the whole time.  

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51 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Yep... tour guys learn quick when walking near roped off gallery's.. don't stick your hand out to slap, fingers are exposed, only fist. Some moron could grab the players fingers and snap one.  Don't recall the hole but noticed one guy was coming at Phil fast though the crowd, he extended his arm to grab Phil, and a plain clothed LEO interceded.  Camera quickly turned away.

 

Today, more than ever, people are insecure, rude, and nutso with no boundaries. 

Unfortunately entitled behavior has been growing stronger and more dangerous for decades. 2020 it really spiked. I'm not sure of the root cause but its  growing pervasiveness is alarming. It doesn't seem to be bound by sex,  race, political affiliation, economic class or education level. Even people old enough to know better apparently don't. Sad. 

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32 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Unfortunately entitled behavior has been growing stronger and more dangerous for decades. 2020 it really spiked. I'm not sure of the root cause but its  growing pervasiveness is alarming. It doesn't seem to be bound by sex,  race, political affiliation, economic class or education level. Even people old enough to know better apparently don't. Sad. 

Again.  If video killed the radio star ..... internet killed human evolution.  There’s now no impetus to be better.  To learn.  Or to grow.  It’s all right there to take.  No work involved.   This is showing in everyday interaction. 
 

I just Chatted up an older lady from England this morning.   Was buying an anniversary gift for my wife.  The English lady  was the sales clerk.  And I was complimented on my thoughtful conversation and manners vs the appearance of my work attire.  Now my quick knee jerk reaction is to think she was just blowing me up for a sale. But.  Who uses manners and conversation skills as an ego boost ?  I think she was genuinely relieved to speak to a human without an attitude or self indulgent smirk.  
 

in the end we knew each other’s recent histories.  My wife’s likes snd dislikes. He husbands tendencies to forget important dates etc.  and I received ( without asking ) a healthy ( 38% ) discount after it was over with.  I like to think I earned that , instead of demanded it by being pleasant , engaging and polite.  I can’t imagine any of those fans being able to switch it on to do that.  And I can’t imagine myself raging like a rabid dog over a sports star.  ( not even tiger 1.0😂). 

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7 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

Don't forget the police TV shows of the 70's when they used to jump on the hood of a car.   How can laying on the hood a moving car stop a thug from getting away? 

 

 

Not the 70s, but I do recall an episode of TJ Hooker where special guest star Leonard Nimoy says to William Shatner, after WS saves LN from a speeding car, "Thanks Hooker.  The scum almost got me."  How that episode never won an Emmy still escapes me.  

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1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

And like him or not, and way before Phil ever hit his iron into 18, Koepka was unreasonably surrounded for his approach shot and birdie was needed, may have made a difference (less likely after Phil hit, but that's not the point), and totally unfair to have to play that shot with the crowd basically pre-determining the outcome.

 

I still recall Jack Nicklaus at Baltusrol U.S. Open in 1980 quieting the crowd after he drained his birdie putt on 17 so Aoki could putt.  Crowd lost it on 18 and kind of a similar thing on a smaller scale with some of the crowd getting through the ropes, but not as intrusive -- that was also a wildly popular win with Jack coming out of a big slump.

At the 1980 US Open, I think that both JN and Aoki had a chance to score a huge prize for breaking the tournament record.  Something like $100K, or whatever was huge back then.  Nicklaus knew he had already broken the record and probably knew that Aoki had the same chance with his last putt on 18.  Aoki made his putt to score the prize too.  Class act by JN.  

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Maybe golf was luckier than other sports in the past, but to generalize and say society, in general, was more well behaved in the past is just not accurate.

 

Violence with fans in sports has been around since the beginning of sports. We all know this from any number of events in semi recent memory (soccer hooliganism, the Monica Seles knife attack, etc...) but this goes back centuries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_violent_spectator_incidents_in_sports

 

But I agree that uncontrolled access to the players and their field of play is a recipe for disaster.

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43 minutes ago, JohnnyCashForever said:

Not the 70s, but I do recall an episode of TJ Hooker where special guest star Leonard Nimoy says to William Shatner, after WS saves LN from a speeding car, "Thanks Hooker.  The scum almost got me."  How that episode never won an Emmy still escapes me.  

 

The emmy - direct result of Adrian Zmed's acting prowess. 

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Posted (edited)

Capturing a photo to sell the moment shouldn't outweigh safety for the players or the crowds themselves.  I don't think other sports encourage "storming the field" type of activity, and I don't think golf should be an exception.  Back in the day when people did this, the crowds were smaller and WAY better behaved... 

 

 

... and probably didn't have a few dozen guys double fisting bud lights for the past 7 hours in the crowd to liven the moment up.

 

 

Edited by jons1
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Too bad our golf galleries won't take a lesson from European golf enthusiasts.  From what I have seen, and experienced euro golf enthusiasts are quite respectful.  Then there's the euro Pro cycling fans, that segment seems to have more morons.  Go figure.

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Posted (edited)

People who think it's a recent trend for fans to be unruly and mob the field have little perspective. This has been happening (in the U.S. anyway) for over 100 years. It seems that nearly every World Series baseball game that ended with a win for the team in the home park from the 1960's through the 1980's turned into a mob/riot. I vividly remember seeing Reggie Jackson send fans airborne with a body check while running full speed off the field at Yankee Stadium in 1977. And believe me, people were on things more potent than beer in 1977.

 

 

 

 

Reggie.jpg.63f810f987047755a2e4b224f09d755b.jpg

Edited by Mustard_Tiger
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On 5/25/2021 at 9:09 AM, Titleist84 said:

Looks like it wasn't planned.

 

"While we welcome enthusiastic fan engagement, we regret that a moment of high elation and pent-up emotion by spectators during the conclusion of yesterday's historic PGA Championship briefly overwhelmed security and made two players and their caddies feel vulnerable," said Seth Waugh, the PGA CEO, in a statement. "We always put player safety at the top of our list and are grateful order was restored. I have spoken to both players and apologized on behalf of the Association."

 

Well, I hope this calms the sensibilities of the Great Unaffected.

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