Anyone (else) feel adverse to getting lessons

[SylvesterLundgren]

Maybe it’s from my background and not trusting a smiling face. Lol

But really it’s because I’m afraid that I’ll have to be reliant on some outside SOB to help myself. I like to think I’m competent with getting myself on the right track but right now I’m in a transition period and I have a National juco tournament coming up. 
I don’t want to feel like I’ll lose MY swing and MY swing feel because I’m getting told to do XYZ. 
maybe this is just arrogance and anxiety talking but I just don’t trust some facet or myself about it. Idk 

Anyone know a good pro in MI / Saginaw/ Lansing area 😓😔

 

edit:

I wrote this when I was salty and frustrated about my golf game. Even revisiting this I should have wrote this in a humble tone but Tis be a lesson. A good reminder about where I’ve come with my game since then 🤷🏻‍♂️🙏🏻

Edited November 6, 2021 by SylvesterLundgren

[BigManSlim]

A good instructor won't want or expect you to change from your general swing tendency. You may think you are competent but Rory, Tiger, Bryson, Phil, etc. all work with instructors. They are far better than any of us will ever be yet still work with instructors. That should tell you something.

[Barfolomew]

Ya adverse... Self taught.  I know if I could practice more I'll make progress so why take lessons at this point.  Something I'd consider more if I hit the wall cause it's not lessons that's slowing me down now, it's all the injuries, coming off DL now.  Def couldn't see a cookie cutter teacher, have to know what's going on with different types of swings... prob tough to find teacher that fits me

[juststeve]

If you find the right you will know your swing well enough to become your own teacher.

 

Steve

[JeffreySpicoli]

26 minutes ago, SylvesterLundgren said:

Anyone know a good pro in MI / Saginaw/ Lansing area 😓😔

If you’re open to a slight drive, Jack Seltzer (Seltzer Golf Academy in Grand Blanc) is a very solid teacher.

[Paddy_2_Iron]

My experience is go a few times pick up as much as you can and stop paying that money and work on this items by yourself. 

 

I had a couple of flaws we worked on and I was able to improve my swing enough to starting hitting some nice shots.   I then quit going and started working on my own swing and it's gotten much better over time.  I have about 4 things that need to be there and I can hit some really nice shots.  Essentially I modularized my swing and now just make sure those components are set.  

 

[SylvesterLundgren]

26 minutes ago, Barfolomew said:

Ya adverse... Self taught.  I know if I could practice more I'll make progress so why take lessons at this point.  Something I'd consider more if I hit the wall cause it's not lessons that's slowing me down now, it's all the injuries, coming off DL now.  Def couldn't see a cookie cutter teacher, have to know what's going on with different types of swings... prob tough to find teacher that fits me

I am self taught, and I also have an identical twin who also golfs. We both help each other out and usually can sort out each other’s tendencies. My transition period is me moving away rn. It isn’t the first time we’ve been apart but now we’re going in our separate directions and it has been slightly different. 

[Soloman1]

[sarcasm]I'm not sure a good instructor would want to work with you. You don't sound like you'd be a very good student.[/sarcasm]

[Barfolomew]

3 minutes ago, SylvesterLundgren said:

I am self taught, and I also have an identical twin who also golfs. We both help each other out and usually can sort out each other’s tendencies. My transition period is me moving away rn. It isn’t the first time we’ve been apart but now we’re going in our separate directions and it has been slightly different. 

 

I think good teachers are awesome and could help anyone.... just like any discipline

 

Finding the right person is the harder part.... I'm a par golfer that lets my technique reveal its self to me rather then the other way around, but if I do look for one at least I know enough to not go down some dumb rabbit hole lol.... good luck!

[MelloYello]

I got some lessons last year and I loved it.

 

Great instructor. Great facility. I came away knowing more about my swing, my tendencies and how to play well than I would've had I spent yet another summer beating balls on the range working on this feel or that. 

 

It took me 12 years before I got lessons. I wish I would've sooner. Only on the internet will people advise you to go it alone. Consulting with someone else does not in any way detract from being able to make your own decisions. 

 

Keys for me were: 

 

(1) Finding an intelligent / qualified instructor who I trusted.

 

(2) Making peace with the fact I wouldn't see that $500 ever again.

 

(3) The instructor having lots of useful technology including video cameras, Trackman, a library of Pro swings to compare mine to, etc.

 

(4) Doing it when I was committed and had a lot of time to play & practice.

 

(5) Getting in immediately after a Club Championship wherein my GIR and putting stats made clear what needed to be improved. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by MelloYello

[SylvesterLundgren]

18 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

[sarcasm]I'm not sure a good instructor would want to work with you. You don't sound like you'd be a very good student.[/sarcasm]

Cause I want ROI lol I just don’t know what to expect and some in my opinion (could be a reach) might not deliver that. 🥲

[MelloYello]

3 minutes ago, SylvesterLundgren said:

Cause I want ROI lol I just don’t know what to expect and some in my opinion (could be a reach) might not deliver that. 🥲

 

Keys for me were: 

 

(1) Finding an intelligent / qualified instructor who I trusted.

 

(2) Making peace with the fact I wouldn't see that $500 ever again.

 

(3) The instructor having lots of useful technology including video cameras, Trackman, a library of Pro swings to compare mine to, etc.

 

(4) Doing it when I was committed and had a lot of time to play & practice.

 

(5) Getting in immediately after a Club Championship wherein my GIR and putting stats made clear what needed to be improved. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by MelloYello

[MelloYello]

DP

Edited May 24, 2021 by MelloYello

[indianagolf2]

I think a female instructor is the way to go. They are not going to ask you to do a Sergio or Rory swing...and will teach how a proper sequence m compression makes it a go 

[Shilgy]

5 hours ago, MelloYello said:

 

Keys for me were: 

 

(1) Finding an intelligent / qualified instructor who I trusted.

 

(2) Making peace with the fact I wouldn't see that $500 ever again.

 

(3) The instructor having lots of useful technology including video cameras, Trackman, a library of Pro swings to compare mine to, etc.

 

(4) Doing it when I was committed and had a lot of time to play & practice.

 

(5) Getting in immediately after a Club Championship wherein my GIR and putting stats made clear what needed to be improved. 

I can’t recall which pro it was I read recently that has never seen his own swing.  Afraid he would chase a look rather than results.  Many of us know just enough about the swing to be dangerous to our own game.  If video was that important we could self diagnose.

 

That said…..OP how old are you?  I ask because you mentioned junior golf but your avatar says you are a 5-11 handicap.  One, that is a huge spread and two….if that is correct why do you desire to keep using your own swing?  Get an instructor…ask around with with junior golf friends and go to who they suggest.  If it is even semi serious junior golf most of them will have at least one.  And trust him or her.  Change WILL FEEL DIFFERENT.  That is not a bad thing as it does feel different to make the necessary changes.

Good luck!

[hoselpalooza]

15 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

I can’t recall which pro it was I read recently that has never seen his own swing.  Afraid he would chase a look rather than results.  Many of us know just enough about the swing to be dangerous to our own game.  If video was that important we could self diagnose.

 

That said…..OP how old are you?  I ask because you mentioned junior golf but your avatar says you are a 5-11 handicap.  One, that is a huge spread and two….if that is correct why do you desire to keep using your own swing?  Get an instructor…ask around with with junior golf friends and go to who they suggest.  If it is even semi serious junior golf most of them will have at least one.  And trust him or her.  Change WILL FEEL DIFFERENT.  That is not a bad thing as it does feel different to make the necessary changes.

Good luck!

 

i recall an episode of chris como's swing expedition from a few years ago with alexander schauffele. iirc, xander's dad would not let him record his swing until it was "perfect". that being said, i think video can be a super valuable tool.

 

separately, i've had the good fortune to work with a number of reputable pros over the past few decades. i'm definitely not adverse to getting lessons -- they've been a tremendous help over the years -- but now i'm at a point where i'm very wary of letting somebody new tinker with my swing. 

 

edit: i think bubba watson is very inspiring. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by hoselpalooza

[JJFWebster]

Got down to a 5.5 without instruction but have been stuck here for a couple years. Finally let the ego go and got lessons every Saturday through the off season. Striking the ball so much better now that I have the early extension under control. Hopefully I can move the index when covid rules relax in my area. Only getting 9 at a time because the tee sheet is slammed.

[Shilgy]

36 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

 

i recall an episode of chris como's swing expedition from a few years ago with alexander schauffele. iirc, xander's dad would not let him record his swing until it was "perfect". that being said, i think video can be a super valuable tool.

 

separately, i've had the good fortune to work with a number of reputable pros over the past few decades. i'm definitely not adverse to getting lessons -- they've been a tremendous help over the years -- but now i'm at a point where i'm very wary of letting somebody new tinker with my swing. 

 

edit: i think bubba watson is very inspiring. 

Seeing the video can aid the instructor more than it helps the student

[hoselpalooza]

4 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Seeing the video can aid the instructor more than it helps the student

 

it can, but that doesn't make it always true. e.g. i know people who were shocked to find out their 1/2 swing looked more like a full swing on video.

[COACH9]

I wouldn't mind a quality instructor taking a look at my swing. But the ones at the clubs I practice at appear to be hacks.

I see them letting their students make the same mistakes over and over without correction. I truly believe I know more about the swing then they do. All seem to have their cookie cutter approach.

[AndersUK]

As with any education YOU have the power of choice to accept information and use it or simply disregard it.

 

Also, a change of attitude might be required?  I am generally outspoken about the overall poor standard of coaching in this game.  However, even I have an open mind and give the benefit of the doubt to any new coach.  Golf is hard but their job is harder.

[ryan84]

Go see anyone at the Jason Guss golf academy, elite instruction going on there and they are actually well priced (100-200) for being top in the state.

[Hawkeye77]

@Santiago Golf might know - I think he's from Michigan.

[bazinky]

I have avoided instruction because I enjoy the process of self-discovery and figuring stuff out on my own. Picked up the sport by playing with my friends who were golfers. Fortunately, my sports background allowed me to get decent enough to compete with them.

 

I KNOW that I would improve substantially faster and to a much greater degree with a good instructor. However, I've already played one sport that I took way to seriously, and I'm not interested in going down that path again. 

 

All I really want is to hit the ball well enough to have fun. I probably won't see an instructor till my game really goes off the rails.

Edited May 25, 2021 by bazinky

[tm3]

A great instructor is a valuable asset -- for learning anything, not just golf.

 

A bad instructor is worse than no instructor.

[naval2006]

9 hours ago, JJFWebster said:

Got down to a 5.5 without instruction but have been stuck here for a couple years. Finally let the ego go and got lessons every Saturday through the off season. Striking the ball so much better now that I have the early extension under control. Hopefully I can move the index when covid rules relax in my area. Only getting 9 at a time because the tee sheet is slammed.

I was selftaught as a kid and I similarly followed that path.  In my early 30's I started taking lessons and I discovered my real potential and I played for a handful of years an outstanding golf.

 

Unless you follow a career as a pro golfer it's highly unlikely that you find your game in the dirt: no time, the daily grind, etc.  And especially if you take up the game as an adult.  

 

The good thing for rivals about not wanting to take lessons is it's harder to play well and you'll lose more than you'll win.  

[phizzy30]

I've been fortunate enough to have gotten weekly lessons back when I was a kid.  Golf was something I took an immediately liking to.  With that being said, I eventually got to the point where I could self correct to a certain degree by myself.  Don't let your ego get in the way.  The teaching pro usually can spot a swing flaw within a matter of seconds.  He's another set of eyes to me to make sure I don't miss something.  I would like to add that the adjustments you may need to make will be uncomfortable at first, hell, your swing might go to s*** for a bit but in the end, it usually improves your game.

[jc2]

I never thought I wanted to see an instructor, but now I think it is super valuable to have a good set of eyes on your swing.  The key is finding the right teacher. You want someone who is going to work within you want to do and are willing to do.  For me I needed someone to help me understand what I was feeling and how that was impacting what I was getting out of my swing but I didn't know that at the time.  

 

I got down to a 3HCP with no instruction, but could shoot 72-75 one day and in the 90s the next.  I knew my tendencies and had a swing that felt like it was doing the right thing, but I wanted to find some consistency.   Went to a reasonably local guy who came highly recommended, he took a look and said you need to change your grip, your stance, ball placement, blah blah blah.  Kept showing me videos of Rory compared to mine.  Gave me a drill to stop from shifting my weight that ended up causing knee pain which he said would stop me from doing that.  I guess he underestimated my ability to keep doing stupid things despite physical pain.  So at this point I know all the things that make my swing worse than Rory's.  Go out to play that afternoon and shoot a shade below 100.  I'm trying to trust these new ideas, the grip, the stance.  But I am missing both directions, fat shots, thin shots, it was brutal but I trusted the guy.  I went to the range a few times per week to work on things and just continued to get worse and worse.  Instead of 70s and 80s it was 90s, and I started to dislike playing golf and my knee hurt when I practiced.  Despite my best intentions I was not Rory.  So I abandoned everything to go back to my homebrew swing and at least stopped hating golf. 

 

A year or so later I was back in the same place as I was before the instructor score-wise and was asked by a regular golf trip buddy if I would be interested in doing a golf school thing where you get instruction in the AM and play a round in the PM. After my first experience I wasn't super excited, but I figured worst case is that the instructor works with my buddy and that I get a whole lot of range time and some rounds on really nice courses.  The first thing the instructor did when we signed up was to ask us about our games, what strengths and weaknesses, where we wanted to improve.  He got some initial videos of my swing, and instead of comparing it to a professional golfer explained how the things I was doing would impact the swing.  The shifting of weight caused my ball position to move back, which ended up causing my grip to become so strong and I had to swing hard to get any kind of distance.  He said that it was pretty interesting that I could make that hunk of junk swing work (occasionally) and showed me how little margin for error that I had.  Back hitting balls he made small changes to what I was doing, starting with the grip.  It felt awful like I was going to lose the club and I couldn't make decent contact with the ball, but he had me stick with it.  Ok now let's try that grip with a different ball position.  Still felt awful and couldn't hit the ball.  I'm thinking here we go again in a year or 2 maybe I'll be able to golf again.  Ok now, let's change the takeaway a little, and try to get rid of that slide.  I couldn't get a decent ball flight in 20 shots and I felt like all my body parts were doing different things, and at that point he took another video.  Now we compared the new video to the old one.  Now I could easily see how the position of my hands and head were more stable through the swing.  So now it's obvious to me that this swing that feels like a random compilation of body movements is an improvement, and instead of chasing Rory's swing we were trying to get my improved swing to be the new normal.  It took a lot of balls to to get the new swing to feel remotely normal, and the first few rounds were terrible scoring.  But what I saw was that instead of my score fluctuating by 15 strokes from one day to the next it was maybe 7-8.  Because I had begun to understand my swing and what the changes meant, I trusted it.  The first thing was that the new grip felt normal, and then the ball position started to look normal.  Then the swing had to follow if I wanted to hit the ball.  Over a few months it became a much more consistent swing and my scores showed that.  

 

No student is going to be the same, have the same game, have the same ability to swing the club, or need the same things to have a repeatable golf swing.  If an instructor tries to make your swing into something instead of improving what you have I don't think it's going to work.  A good instructor that knows your swing is also a great tool to have for maintenance, I can email a quick video and get feedback like what to watch out for as some bad habits sneak back in over time.

[MelloYello]

If you tend towards having a cynical view of instructors, just keep in mind that a good instructor is only trying to get you back towards more neutral positions. 

 

And just so you know, if you're against neutral positions because you covet your own flawed tendencies, it's not the instructor who's wrong. 😉 

[trilerian]

I am adverse to lessons because they have never really helped.  I'm not saying that golf instruction hasn't helped, because I am sure it has, but lessons...  I have had about 10 lessons over the past 6 years and I haven't learned anything from them that I haven't learned from this site, videos I have bought, or youtube.  I'm sure the right instructor is out there, but whether or not I find him/her is unlikely.