PW as a chipper

[braincramp52]

I would also suggest don't forget about chipping off tight lies with a hybrid around the green. I have a friend who is masterful chipping with his 23 degree hybrid.

[1Mordrid1]

On 5/26/2021 at 8:22 AM, tsecor said:

i use 44 quite a bit....i do not carry 4 wedges...only 2 and it works great....any amateur who carries 4 wedges is complete overkill.......Nicklaus never did that.....just saying

Nicklaus played in a different time. In the 60's and 70's greens were very slow by today's standards running around a 6-6.5 on the stimpmeter. Even in the 80's the average was closer to 8-9 which is still considerably slower than the 12 and up you see on todays tour.

 

Slower and even medium speed greens can generally be played fairly well with a bump and run style of chipping. But once you throw in lots of undulation, the faster the greens are the more difficult it is to control the speed on certain shots, and some pins you just cannot get close to without throwing the ball nearer to the hole with some spin if you did not give yourself a perfect leave. And how often do we leave ourselves the ideal chip?

 

I carry 4 wedges, and all of them get used regularly. Pitching wedge, gap wedge, 56°, and 60°. None of them are overkill. If you have ever played some of the courses in AZ a 60° wedge low bounce wedge is not only useful to get out of some of the "hardpan" bunkers you see here, but it is also very useful during the summer when the heat is high and the greens are hard.

 

Plus I am pretty sure Jack had the skill to hit multiple types of shots with his wedges however many he had, whereas a lot of amateurs would likely get more consistent results hitting the stock shot with the right wedge for that job.

 

 

[westcyderydin]

I am a member at a course with small, slightly elevated, firm greens.  For years I have used a 56 for anything inside 90 yards, but I've recently put at 60 in the bag.  If I have a shot in rough where I don't have much green to work with but still need to get through the ball to get it out, I will try to use the 60 and think to land it at the pin to get the right distance.  Otherwise if I am short sided, I use the 56, take my lumps and just try to get it on the green.  Would maybe trust the 60 more if it had as much bounce as the 56 but still, do not like adapting to different lofts.

 

It just doesn't fit my mind to use different clubs for pitch/chip shots but I can see how other people do it.  If I played more at wide open courses with larger greens, maybe I would be more  comfortable with it.  I am pretty good at punch shots when having trees in the way, thinking of them as pitch shots with a lower lofted iron, so could see how I could get used to a PW or iron around the green.  Just doesn't work for the course I play 95% of the time, so maybe a skill I haven't developed.  

[JeffreySpicoli]

9 hours ago, tsecor said:

You can pretend to be a pro all you want.....thats the beauty of the sport!  enjoy yourself with those wooden shafts. You would probably play just as well as u do now. 

Hey, wait a minute. I seem to remember something!

 

Aren’t you the guy who had a big long thread a couple of years ago about how you couldn’t hit driver so you hit 3 wood off the tee instead?

[North Butte]

45 minutes ago, 1Mordrid1 said:

Nicklaus played in a different time. In the 60's and 70's greens were very slow by today's standards running around a 6-6.5 on the stimpmeter. Even in the 80's the average was closer to 8-9 which is still considerably slower than the 12 and up you see on todays tour.

 

Slower and even medium speed greens can generally be played fairly well with a bump and run style of chipping. But once you throw in lots of undulation, the faster the greens are the more difficult it is to control the speed on certain shots, and some pins you just cannot get close to without throwing the ball nearer to the hole with some spin if you did not give yourself a perfect leave. And how often do we leave ourselves the ideal chip?

 

I carry 4 wedges, and all of them get used regularly. Pitching wedge, gap wedge, 56°, and 60°. None of them are overkill. If you have ever played some of the courses in AZ a 60° wedge low bounce wedge is not only useful to get out of some of the "hardpan" bunkers you see here, but it is also very useful during the summer when the heat is high and the greens are hard.

 

Plus I am pretty sure Jack had the skill to hit multiple types of shots with his wedges however many he had, whereas a lot of amateurs would likely get more consistent results hitting the stock shot with the right wedge for that job.

 

 

Worst case is when you have older types of Bermuda grass in the fairway, rough and collars then the super firm, fast ultradwarf Bermuda putting surfaces Stimping in the 12's. Landing an 8-iron chip on the green you're going to need a whole lotta green to work with. And if you land it in the fringe, the grainy Bermuda is 50/50 to either grab it or to bounce forward hard .

 

Honestly, it's all or nothing for me. If it's really not necessary to fly it onto the green then I just putt it. Seems like a lot of Tour players are reaching for the putter now from 10-12 yards off the green at times. And if I need to fly it onto the green I'll hit it with a 54 or 58 degree that will land softly, not an iron. Especially not a strong-lofted, high-COR iron that's the opposite of what's needed.

[JontyR]

I notice nobody has mentioned the type of ball you play. I think that has a major impact on what type of shot you're going to play around the green. I'm going to guess people playing with hard distance balls like Ultra, or even low spin soft balls like Supersoft, are going to have more success with a lower lofted club, and getting the ball on the putting surface asap. Play a ProV or similar, you've got a better chance of throwing it up to the hole and stopping it.

[tsecor]

13 hours ago, 1Mordrid1 said:

Nicklaus played in a different time. In the 60's and 70's greens were very slow by today's standards running around a 6-6.5 on the stimpmeter. Even in the 80's the average was closer to 8-9 which is still considerably slower than the 12 and up you see on todays tour.

 

Slower and even medium speed greens can generally be played fairly well with a bump and run style of chipping. But once you throw in lots of undulation, the faster the greens are the more difficult it is to control the speed on certain shots, and some pins you just cannot get close to without throwing the ball nearer to the hole with some spin if you did not give yourself a perfect leave. And how often do we leave ourselves the ideal chip?

 

I carry 4 wedges, and all of them get used regularly. Pitching wedge, gap wedge, 56°, and 60°. None of them are overkill. If you have ever played some of the courses in AZ a 60° wedge low bounce wedge is not only useful to get out of some of the "hardpan" bunkers you see here, but it is also very useful during the summer when the heat is high and the greens are hard.

 

Plus I am pretty sure Jack had the skill to hit multiple types of shots with his wedges however many he had, whereas a lot of amateurs would likely get more consistent results hitting the stock shot with the right wedge for that job.

 

 

IMO shotmaking skills have evaporated for most great players and extra equipment is used instead. Obviously marketing tells us you need 4 wedges and the amateurs buy into it hook line and sinker. IMO, there is never a need for 4 wedges in anyones bag. Its a preference or a thought that you "should" have 4 because marketing dictates it.

 

A 2 degree difference between wedges is really splitting hairs on what the club will do on its own.....once again my opinion. 

 

Jack's and the guys from his era also used a driver that was the size of todays hybrids, steel shafts and putters you get at todays mini-golf range.....and he and many others are still the best players the game has ever seen. Putting on soft greens with a tiny blade isnt easy so its all relative.  

 

Hey, we play what works for each of us....thats the beauty of the sport. 

 

[JeffreySpicoli]

1 hour ago, tsecor said:

IMO shotmaking skills have evaporated for most great players and extra equipment is used instead. Obviously marketing tells us you need 4 wedges and the amateurs buy into it hook line and sinker. IMO, there is never a need for 4 wedges in anyones bag. Its a preference or a thought that you "should" have 4 because marketing dictates it.

 

A 2 degree difference between wedges is really splitting hairs on what the club will do on its own.....once again my opinion. 

 

Jack's and the guys from his era also used a driver that was the size of todays hybrids, steel shafts and putters you get at todays mini-golf range.....and he and many others are still the best players the game has ever seen. Putting on soft greens with a tiny blade isnt easy so its all relative.  

 

Hey, we play what works for each of us....thats the beauty of the sport. 

 

You’re creating a straw man argument. No one is bagging wedges with a two degree gap. Also, you’re making an argument that Nicklaus himself won’t make. So stop invoking his name with such nonsense.

 

With today’s modern course conditions—faster greens, etc.—you can’t just continue to fill a bag as if it’s 1965.

 

By the way, what are your short game credentials to provide this type of advice?

[Mych]

If the flag is in the middle of the green or on the opposite side of the green, PW all day. If I'm short-sided, GW or SW. In all three cases, I'm usually trying to land it on the fringe or just onto the green depending on how far it needs to carry and how much speed it'll need to roll the proper distance.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Mych

[gvogel]

On 5/24/2021 at 8:33 PM, SkrappyHacker1 said:

Does anyone else do this? My 44° PW is the club I feel most confident with when chipping. I used to use my 50° gap wedge for chip shots but never hit it consistently.

 

I know, I know. Just buy a damn chipper

The main difference between a chipper and a PW, or 9-iron, is the lie angle.  Not the loft.  If you take your PW, and stand closer and put the toe down, you can use your PW as a putter with a putting stroke.  Very little wrist break, and it will be more consistent than using a pitch stroke.  Much more reliable under pressure.

[JDIL]

Do you have time to practice a lot? Or weekend warrior? I once tried to do everything with a LW. Then I started chipping only, but always a different club.

 

Best thing to do, take your clubs and your gamer balls. Go to a practice green, and find out which clubs go 1:3, 1:2, 1:1, etc. So like 8 iron, PW, SW. 

 

If it can clear whatever I need, I always go for 1:1 and just aim halfway to the green. Easy.

 

And 44 is a pretty normal PW loft, no? Especially if cavity back. I mean if Jordan Spieth is using a 46 degree Vokey, then a 44 degree cavity PW isn't so crazy.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by jdang307

[Bad9]

9 minutes ago, jdang307 said:

 

...Best thing to do, take your clubs and your gamer balls. Go to a practice green,...

 

 

 

Whatever club you use this is one of the most important things to do, learn how the ball you use is going to respond.

[North Butte]

40 minutes ago, gvogel said:

The main difference between a chipper and a PW, or 9-iron, is the lie angle.  Not the loft.  If you take your PW, and stand closer and put the toe down, you can use your PW as a putter with a putting stroke.  Very little wrist break, and it will be more consistent than using a pitch stroke.  Much more reliable under pressure.

Depending on your hand position for your "putting stroke" using a PW that way can seriously reduce your room for error. For instance my hand position and posture requires about a 75 degree lie angle on my putter. Using a 63 degree PW means the toe is pointing down something like 10-12 degrees. 

 

So unless I want to risk dragging the toe on the ground (and believe me, I definitely don't want to risk that on grainy Bermuda grass!) then I'm trying to hit the ball with a tiny little area way out toward the toe. The sweet spot of the club is way off the ground.

 

When I play that "putt with a PW" stroke, my setup and stroke doesn't look anything like the way I putt. My hands are lower and tucked in toward my body, my eyes aren't directly over the ball and I'm bending forward a little more as well. I do grip the club like I would a putter (reverse overlap) and I do rock my shoulders rather than rotating around my body. 

 

As someone with severe chipping yips, I get that advice "just putt with your pitching wedge" at least ten times a year from well-intentioned golfers I'm playing with. There are two types of people giving me that advice. Most of them putt old-school standing way inside the ball, hands low, putters with a lie angle or 68 or 69 degree and toe sticking up in the air. Sure, a PW works with that stroke. They basically putt like most people chip.

 

And then there are the guys who tell me to chip like I putt but when they demonstrate, the way they set up to chip doesn't look remotely anything like how they set up to putt. They feel like they are "putting with a PW" but that's just a feel-ain't-real thing. 

[1Mordrid1]

3 hours ago, tsecor said:

IMO shotmaking skills have evaporated for most great players and extra equipment is used instead. Obviously marketing tells us you need 4 wedges and the amateurs buy into it hook line and sinker. IMO, there is never a need for 4 wedges in anyones bag. Its a preference or a thought that you "should" have 4 because marketing dictates it.

 

A 2 degree difference between wedges is really splitting hairs on what the club will do on its own.....once again my opinion. 

 

Jack's and the guys from his era also used a driver that was the size of todays hybrids, steel shafts and putters you get at todays mini-golf range.....and he and many others are still the best players the game has ever seen. Putting on soft greens with a tiny blade isnt easy so its all relative.  

 

Hey, we play what works for each of us....thats the beauty of the sport. 

 

As someone else already mentioned, people are not carrying 4 wedges that cover only 8° of loft. Most people carry wedges with between 4° and 6° of loft difference between them. With new technology a lot of irons are longer, and sometimes carrying 4 wedges is simply about proper gapping to get to your more versatile wedges.

 

Plus you just contradicted your own original justification of only using one wedge because that is what Jack did. Yes Jack used a driver that was much smaller than todays drivers because that is all they had available to them. And they used steel shafts because that is all that was available. Do you think he still uses a persimmon 1 wood with a steel shaft? Of course not. Because the game has changed and technology has changed. Did you ever stop to think that maybe Jack played that way because there just weren't that many options available to the players in his day?

[North Butte]

If young Jack Nicklaus had access to a 46" Titanium driver with a 65g graphite shaft he'd have knocked the rubber bands straight out of those crummy balata balls he was playing back then. Innocent bystanders in the gallery might have lost an eye to an exploding Macgregor!

[tsecor]

1 hour ago, 1Mordrid1 said:

As someone else already mentioned, people are not carrying 4 wedges that cover only 8° of loft. Most people carry wedges with between 4° and 6° of loft difference between them. With new technology a lot of irons are longer, and sometimes carrying 4 wedges is simply about proper gapping to get to your more versatile wedges.

 

Plus you just contradicted your own original justification of only using one wedge because that is what Jack did. Yes Jack used a driver that was much smaller than todays drivers because that is all they had available to them. And they used steel shafts because that is all that was available. Do you think he still uses a persimmon 1 wood with a steel shaft? Of course not. Because the game has changed and technology has changed. Did you ever stop to think that maybe Jack played that way because there just weren't that many options available to the players in his day?

lol....Capain Obvious has nothing on you.  This response cracked me up.  Ty for that.....🤣

Edited May 28, 2021 by tsecor

[RoyalMustang]

On 5/24/2021 at 10:56 PM, Ghostwedge said:

When I started playing Jack ( yes, that Jack) told me chip and pitch with a PW.

Then Kite (yes, that Tom) came along and said use 3-4 wedges and some guy named Pelz (yes, that Dave) said use 5i thru lob and create 36 different shots.

I stuck with Jack, phew......

 

Simplicity is often the best solution! 

[JermWRX]

I’m sure it’s way off base for all you blade champion WRXers, but I chip with my hybrid. If it’s in the fringe or first cut of rough anywhere around the green, I use my hybrid. Off my front foot, basically a putter stroke. Impossible to chunk. Impossible to skull. It hops and rolls out and is very easy to control distance. I only use a wedge, either 56 or 60 if I have to get over something. I’m sure I’m in the minority, but I think a lot of us golfers make the game more difficult than it needs to be. I’ve never seen the point of a million different specialty shots when it isn’t necessary. I guess I play boring golf. I use a driver that finds the fairway, irons that go straight, a 56 in the sand, and I don’t overthink it around the green. Bump it up and make putts. 

[rp4golf]

On 5/24/2021 at 6:33 PM, SkrappyHacker1 said:

Does anyone else do this? My 44° PW is the club I feel most confident with when chipping. I used to use my 50° gap wedge for chip shots but never hit it consistently.

 

I know, I know. Just buy a damn chipper

GW for most of my chipping, but LW if I have a longer carry or need to stop it quick, 9i for mid-legth roll-outs, and even a hybrid/FW for longer running chips.

But once played a dude that was deadly with his chipper. 🤣👍

Edited May 29, 2021 by rp4golf

[North Butte]

10 hours ago, rp4golf said:

GW for most of my chipping, but LW if I have a longer carry or need to stop it quick, 9i for mid-legth roll-outs, and even a hybrid/FW for longer running chips.

But once played a dude that was deadly with his chipper. 🤣👍

I may have said this upthread already but there's a guy I play with who chips everything with a PW. I guess it's his "chipper". If he's 2 inches into the fringe and 15 feet above the hole? Chip with PW. If he's 10 yards out in the fairway and has tons of green to work with? Chip with PW. Unless he has to fly the ball over a bunker or gouge it out of thick rough it's always chip with PW. Never an 8-iron, never a SW. 

 

And go figure, he never duffs it or chunks it or hits it thin. I guess decades of playing that shot with that club from everywhere and he's gotten pretty good at it. One time he saw me putt one from just a few inches into the fringe and get it close. He said (and I think he was only half kidding), "I ought to learn that putter from the fringe shot".  As if...

[uglande]

Absolutely -- 90 percent of my chips are with my 54 or a PW. I might even go down to an 8-iron for a long runner. I only chip with my LW when I'm short-sided or chipping into a downslope. 

 

There are some guys, like Tiger, who only chip with a LW because they are so good at de-lofting the club and still making pure contact. But for most people, including most pros, a multi-club approach (only using as much loft as you need) is more consistent.

[tomc262]

Lee Buck sharing knowledge 👍🏼👍🏼
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CPWpTKtHZLl/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

 

 

[bomberman]

I'm with the majority here and use whatever works, I'll chip with my 3 hybrid, 7i-60* depending on the situation. 

 

I used to do mostly 60* stuff but I realized it's easier to get the ball rolling. I see too many players I get paired with using  lofted shots when a chip and run or putt is called for. 

[Fairway14]

The best short game players I've known always use less lofted clubs. For example, playing a chip shot with a 6, 7, 8, or 9-iron. If a player has the technique to make a proper chipping stroke these low lofted clubs are very effective.

In recent years guys try to play chip shots with a PW, SW, L wedge etc... and too long of  a stroke is required for these high lofted clubs. They are pitching clubs, not chipping clubs.

[azgreg]

2 hours ago, tomc262 said:

Lee Buck sharing knowledge 👍🏼👍🏼
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CPWpTKtHZLl/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

 

 

I liked the video but Trevino said just use a putting stroke and he wasn't using a putting stroke.

 

[596]

I've learned recently it's not only about distance, green to work with, rough, lie, etc. It also has to do with your swing.  What chipping or pitching stroke works best for you.  That in turn along with all that other stuff can determine which club you have in your hands.  

 

If you are like me, I had a medicine induced yip.  I couldn't swing a pitch or chip. I could even miss the ball putting!!🤢. I had to teach myself to use a more lofted chip and pitch so I could swing longer.  Any shortened swing and I could miss the ball completely.  After 2 years I can now chip and pitch with any club in the bag.

[Obiwan21]

I'll pull the PW for a little bump/chip and run action plenty of times from about 25-40 away from the pin.

[Mcgeeno]

My thought process usually goes like this as I'm walking up near the green and assessing the lie and pin location.

 

Can I putt it? If so putt. A great putt or great chip ends up the same (In the hole) My bad putt is always better than a bad chip though haha.

If I can't putt it can I bump it with a hybrid over the collar and roll it to the flag? This is a simple and easy shot I've worked on that typically minimizes any big time errors. Its a putting stroke for me.

 

If I can't use either of those shots and its a runner type shot I'll go with a 9 iron for a basic chip and run. Gap wedge is my next shot which is roughly 1/4 carry and 3/4 roll. I use these shots quite often.

 

For me the LW is usually used for flop shots or high and soft type shots, deep rough/nasty lies, greenside bunkers or specialty shots I need to land near the pin for whatever reason. 

 

 

[Jifmoli]

I chip (bump & run) with anything from hybrid to wedge depending on the distance but most of the time I use an 50o approach wedge. In my half-set/travel set I have a mid-80s blade PW, which is probably 48 or 49 degrees so very similar to my current AW. When there is little green to play with I use my 60o.

 

Before I learned to chip I used to use a chipper - certainly wouldn't call them wasted real estate if most of your chips are shanks, chunks etc. That Danish Rider Cup President (Bjorn ...) called the chipper one the best inventions (for higher HCs). Mind you, most chippers are 8i equivalent so will take some time to get used to if your PW was your main tool before.

 

In the end, whatever feels best to you!

[panther73]

On 5/27/2021 at 10:45 AM, Pepperturbo said:

All true except the pros you reference and that period in golf, PW and 9i were weaker lofted clubs so easier to use around the green.  Kite and Trevino's irons were really weak, and the greens were slower back then too.  There was no such thing as a 13 stemp green.

 

The reason I use my PW or 9i is they are more traditionally lofted and better on slower muni greens, as opposed to, let's say, Callaway Apex Pro PW is 45' and 9i is 41'.  They are just too strong for delicate chips and baby pitch shots.

 

On 5/27/2021 at 11:34 AM, RainShadow said:

 I think my point is that different shots can be accomplished w/ an array of different tools.

Example would be running a seven or eight iron to a back pin.

When I was a kid, we'd practice to back pins with putter from just on the green, 5 iron from 2-3 feet off, 7  or 8 from 4-6ft off, 9/PW from a little farther, etc.

 The idea being get the ball on the ground quickly.

 Of course back in the 70's the clubs had weaker lofts and much different sole grinds, but it was an exercise in feel, learning there were many ways to skin a cat....

If you are attempting to point out that he meant stimp, not stemp, you would be correct. If you do not believe stimp meter  readings of 13 - 14, come to my club in July - August when we have the Invitational, Men's and woman's, Club stroke play championship, and the start of the club match play championship. If we are playing a club match from the area, we are at a huge advantage as most visitors putt off at least a couple of greens, and do not believe how much break any slight side hill putt has.

 

As far as what club to chip with, I was taught a method that helped me win my second Jr Golf tourney, the course club champion used his 7 iron, I had to use my 8 iron, most likely due to lofts not matching up between our sets. Back then that was 42 degrees, 670's 9 iron 44 degrees, 718MB's 9 iron 43 bent to 45. And I use what ever club I see as best fitting the shot on hand. Toe of the putter, bladed sand wedge, PW with a putting stroke (very short pop up for downhill on very fast greens) as mentioned in a prior post, different brush strokes for different shots.