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Clubbuilding: Epoxy or Grips first?


RobDMB
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Just curious, do most people epoxy/install the shafts in the heads first and then grip after? Or vice versa? Any pros/cons to one or the other? Also, for those that do the epoxy/head first using a split grip, do you account for the tape/epoxy in terms of swing weight? If so, how much or do they offset? Thanks!

Taylormade M3 8.5* Driver
Callaway Apex 20* Hybrid
Taylormade UDI 2-Iron
Taylormade P760 4-AW w/ PX 6.5
Cleveland RTX-3 55*/60*
Scotty Cameron Pro Platinum Newport Mil-Spec

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7 minutes ago, kwcsports said:

I always install shafts, cut to length, grips are last. 


Agreed!

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Driver:  TaylorMade 300 Mini 11.5° (10.2°), Fujikura Ventus Blue 5S Velocore

3W:  TaylorMade M4 15°, Graphite Design Tour AD DI 7S

Hybrid:  TaylorMade Sim2 2 Iron Hybrid 17°, Mitsubishi Tensai AV Raw Blue 80 stiff

Irons:  Ben Hogan Icon blades 4-PW, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120 stiff

GW / LW:  Scratch Golf 1018 forged 50°/ 58° DS, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120 stiff

SW:  Callaway MD5 Jaws 54°, TT DG Tour Issue S200 115g wedge shaft

Putter: Byron Morgan DH89 GSS custom, Salty MidPlus cork grip

Grips: BestGrips Augusta Microperf leather slip on

 

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HI, I read this as a swingweight question.  Try dry fitting the head and cut to length (install the grip tape; temporarily tape the ferrule to the head). Since the grip is held in the hands, it won't  and   shouldn't have much effect on the head weight feel so then we should swingweight without the grip . 

 

For example, a 52g grip divided by 5.2 =10 swingwt. points  so if your test club has a target of D2 then swingweighting without a grip means you need to see E2 on the scale. Now install the necessary tip weight, ferrule and shaft.

 

After you install the grip, the scale reads D2.

 

Its another way clubmakers build clubs.

epoxy = approx 1/4 point or so.

Hope this helps

M60

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Personally, the grip was always the last thing to be installed.  Dry fitting and swingweighting would be done with a cut/split grip.  Lately while watching youtube I have seen a few Mizuno build videos where they insist on building with the grip on first.  They are being a lot more exact than any of us would be so I would say grip last.

Driver:  Taylor Made SIM 2 Max D w Ventus Blue 5 Shaft tipped 1 inch

Fairway Wood: 2014 Adams Tight Lies 14* 3 Wood w PROformance 80g X Shaft tipped 1 inch

                           2015 Adams Tight Lies 22* 7 Wood w Kuro Kage 65g S Shaft tipped 1 inch

Irons:  2014 Taylor Made Tour Preferred MC w KBS Tour S shafts 4-PW                      
Wedges: 2014 Taylor Made Tour Preferred 52,56(Tour grind), 58(ATV grind) w KBS Tour V Wedge flex

Grips:   Kingrasp Midsize Composite Rubber (Budget Iomic - Amazon)
Putter:  Bastain Milled Fusion Golf Prototype 1 of 1 Plumbers Neck w Project X 6.0 @ 33.75" w Super Stroke GTR 1.0
Ball:  Kirkland Signature V3.2

Bag:  Ogio Shadow Fuse 304

Glove: MG DynaGrip Elite

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14 hours ago, RobDMB said:

Just curious, do most people epoxy/install the shafts in the heads first and then grip after? Or vice versa? Any pros/cons to one or the other? Also, for those that do the epoxy/head first using a split grip, do you account for the tape/epoxy in terms of swing weight? If so, how much or do they offset? Thanks!

I have only been building clubs for 25+ years, but I always epoxy first, then install grips. Unless you want to fix some crooked grips.

 

Stop overthinking about tape and epoxy, they basically cancel each other out. 

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Titleist TSi3 w/Oban Kiyoshi White 6X 
Titleist TSi2 15 degree w/Accra TZ6 75 M5

Titleist TSi2 21 degree w/Accra TZ6 75 M5 

Srixon ZX5 4-6 w/KBS TGI 110 (SS 1x) @1/2" over standard

Srixon ZX7 7-PW w/KBS TGI 110 (SS 1x) @1/2" over standard
Titleist Vokey SM8 Raw 50/54/58 KBS TGI 110 (SS 1x) @1/2" over standard
Toulon Las Vegas custom w/BGT Tour 

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3 minutes ago, liveagua said:

Stop overthinking about tape and epoxy, they basically cancel each other out. 

 

I'll take that sentiment one step further.  Stop thinking of butt weight as a variable, that's not what the swing weight scale is about.   It's better to adjust head weight with single split grip for all the clubs in the set, or better yet, no grip at all  (e.g. just make the target 9 pts higher than what you would with the grip).  That allows you to ignore the manufacturing variations in actual grip weights.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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12 hours ago, Manz60 said:

For example, a 52g grip divided by 5.2 =10 swingwt. points  so if your test club has a target of D2 then swingweighting without a grip means you need to see E2 on the scale. Now install the necessary tip weight, ferrule and shaft.

 

After you install the grip, the scale reads D2.

 

9 pts is more commonly used (E1 to get D2) since the grip typically can add 1/8" to 1/4" to the playing length.  But of course that can depend on the particular grip model used.  I've had some grips that only added maybe 1/16" so for those the 10 pt difference might work well.

Edited by Stuart_G
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2 hours ago, liveagua said:

I have only been building clubs for 25+ years, but I always epoxy first, then install grips. Unless you want to fix some crooked grips.

 

Stop overthinking about tape and epoxy, they basically cancel each other out. 

 This👏

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Ping G410 Plus 12°/Xcaliber SL55, Maltby KE4 TC 5w/Xcaliber SL FW r flex, Maltby KE4 HyWay 21°/Xcaliber SL r flex, Maltby KE4 Tour TC 4h/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex, Maltby KE4 Tour TC 5h/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex, Maltby KE4 Tour+ 6-G/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex, Maltby TSW 54° and 58°/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex, Mizuno Bettinardi C06

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  • 5 weeks later...

Weight everything, see if you need to adjust SW, cut to length, install shafts, grips are DFL

Driver:     TSi3, 9º set to 8.25º, Diamana D+ Ltd, Blackboard D70+, X
FWs:        TSi3, 15º set to 13.25º and 18º set to 17.25º, Diamana D+ Ltd, Blackboard, D80+, X
Irons:       Srixon ZU85, 18º, 40.5", Tensei White 90 HY, X
                 Srixon ZX, 20º bent to 21º, KBS Tour HY Proto 95, X
                 Srixon Z585 5, bent to 24º (4) and 6 bent to 27º (5), NM 3, 130 X
                 Titleist 670 forged, 6-9, NM 3, 130 X
Wedges:  Titleist
  SM7 F Raw, 46º-10º, NM 3, 130 X; Cally MD Forged Black, 50º-10º

                  and 54º-10ºm NM 3, 130 S; PM Grind Black, 60º and 64º, NM 3, 130 S
Putter:      Titleist Scotty Studio Stainless NP 2, 35"
Ball:          Titleist Pro V1 - Club rotation varies according to course and weather conditions, scoring remains constantly awful... lols

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On 5/27/2021 at 10:49 AM, liveagua said:

I have only been building clubs for 25+ years, but I always epoxy first, then install grips. Unless you want to fix some crooked grips.

 

Stop overthinking about tape and epoxy, they basically cancel each other out. 

Agreed. Unless you fill up the shaft with epoxy from end to end (or use 6+ double side  grip tape), both of them cancel out. 

Driver:     TSi3, 9º set to 8.25º, Diamana D+ Ltd, Blackboard D70+, X
FWs:        TSi3, 15º set to 13.25º and 18º set to 17.25º, Diamana D+ Ltd, Blackboard, D80+, X
Irons:       Srixon ZU85, 18º, 40.5", Tensei White 90 HY, X
                 Srixon ZX, 20º bent to 21º, KBS Tour HY Proto 95, X
                 Srixon Z585 5, bent to 24º (4) and 6 bent to 27º (5), NM 3, 130 X
                 Titleist 670 forged, 6-9, NM 3, 130 X
Wedges:  Titleist
  SM7 F Raw, 46º-10º, NM 3, 130 X; Cally MD Forged Black, 50º-10º

                  and 54º-10ºm NM 3, 130 S; PM Grind Black, 60º and 64º, NM 3, 130 S
Putter:      Titleist Scotty Studio Stainless NP 2, 35"
Ball:          Titleist Pro V1 - Club rotation varies according to course and weather conditions, scoring remains constantly awful... lols

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I also prefer to tip trim, then glue heads, then butt trim, adjust SW as needed, then grip. Works well for me. 

TaylorMade SIM Max 9*

Exotics EXS Pro 3 Wood 15*

Callaway Epic Flash Hybrid 18* + 21* + 24*

TaylorMade Sim Max Hybrid 28*

PXG 0311P 7-PW

Maltby TSW DRM 50, 55, 60

Cleveland Classic Belly (DIY armlock conversion)

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I always epoxy and trim first before putting on the grips.  I also use a split grip with bit of lead tape on it to compensate for the additional weight of the grip tape and any build up tape. I have several split grips of varying weights to account for the varying weight of the grip. Is it perfect? Maybe not, but I am usually within a .5 to 1 SW of where I want it to be. 

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I always found it easier to measure, Cut , Grip , swingweight, then epoxy. Especially when using tip weights. Maybe it was because that was the way I was taught when I was 7 by my grandfather.  If you go old school and use lead or tungsten powder and cork then epoxy , then cut. I have seen a majority of tour techs and factory in house Tour Dept. guys cut, grip weight, then epoxy.  

 

I just put together a 3 wood the other night using using; Cut , Grip , swingweight (Hotmelted the head), then epoxy. Came out D3 on the number, at 42.75". 

Driver: Taylormade M5 Tour 9* w/ Fujikura KAMO (671TE) X 

3 Wood: Royal Collection 306V BBD 15* w/ Fujikura Speeder 757 Evo X

Hybrid: Fourteen Prototype 2 iron Bent to 20* w/ UST Mamiya Proto 125 X

Irons: Fourteen FH1000 4-PW 1*Strong/1*Up w/ KBS $Taper S+ +1/2

GW: Fourteen RM12 - 50/10   w/ KBS $Taper S+ +1/2

SW:  Fourteen RM12 – 54.5/10.5   w/ KBS 610 130 +1/2

LW:  Fourteen RM12 - 59/9   w/ KBS 610 130 +1/2

Putter: Odyssey 1W Milled @ 34”,4* & 71* w/ Ionmic Mid Size

Ball: Titleist ProV1 or AVX

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I use the minimum tip weights required to get a 7 gram progression, but don't worry about swingweight at all.

I might if it was really light, but have never ran into this.

Sub 70 849 Pro 10.5° (Adjusted to 8.5°) - ProForce V2 Black 6F4 S
Sub 70 949X 4 wood - ProForce V2 Black 7F4 S

Bridgestone Tour B XD-H 2 hybrid - KBS Graphite Tour Prototype 85S
Honma TW-X 3 iron - Vizzard 85S

2015 OnOff Kuro Forged 4-PW - Fujikura Pro Iron 95i Tour S

Nike VR Pro 52°-10° - Fujikura Pro Iron 95i Tour S
Nike VR Pro 56°-14° - Fujikura Pro Iron 95i Tour S
Nike VR Pro 58° DS - Fujikura Pro Iron 95i Tour S
Grips - Number One 50 Pro Series

Scotty Cameron Oil Can Newport (1996) - KBS black CT Tour, Iomic Black Army
MaxFli Tour (Yellow)

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4 hours ago, Ger21 said:

I use the minimum tip weights required to get a 7 gram progression, but don't worry about swingweight at all.

I might if it was really light, but have never ran into this.

Nonsense.  Just because the heads are 7 grams apart has only a very little bearing on the final swing-weight.  Even if you have 7 of the exact shafts there may be an outlier re swingweight.  The absolutely only way to ensure consistent SW is to pre assemble all components and go from there.  

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The point was that I'm not concerned about the final swingweight, and have never noticed any differences, which probably do exist. I was adding on to the post before mine.

Sub 70 849 Pro 10.5° (Adjusted to 8.5°) - ProForce V2 Black 6F4 S
Sub 70 949X 4 wood - ProForce V2 Black 7F4 S

Bridgestone Tour B XD-H 2 hybrid - KBS Graphite Tour Prototype 85S
Honma TW-X 3 iron - Vizzard 85S

2015 OnOff Kuro Forged 4-PW - Fujikura Pro Iron 95i Tour S

Nike VR Pro 52°-10° - Fujikura Pro Iron 95i Tour S
Nike VR Pro 56°-14° - Fujikura Pro Iron 95i Tour S
Nike VR Pro 58° DS - Fujikura Pro Iron 95i Tour S
Grips - Number One 50 Pro Series

Scotty Cameron Oil Can Newport (1996) - KBS black CT Tour, Iomic Black Army
MaxFli Tour (Yellow)

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6 hours ago, denkea said:

Nonsense.  Just because the heads are 7 grams apart has only a very little bearing on the final swing-weight.  Even if you have 7 of the exact shafts there may be an outlier re swingweight.  The absolutely only way to ensure consistent SW is to pre assemble all components and go from there.  

 

Not even slightly true.  I just completed another build (this time for @Phabs) and I do not use dry build-ups to figure out swingweighting... ever.  If you have the data from the individual components and use the science/math of MOI, you can build clubs with higher precision and save time.  It doesn't matter whether it's a swingweight matched set or MOI matched, the same science applies.

 

I know that not every builder is going to run out and buy the MOI Auditor machine, but it sure makes life easier...

Edited by Noodler
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On 5/27/2021 at 9:04 AM, cristphoto said:

Grip last - totally eliminates possibility of air lock. 

 

And the occasional case of small epoxy bits or debris causing a rattle/ 

SIM2 9*, Diamana ZF 70TX

TSi2 15*, Diamana BF 80TX

Flash SZ 18°, VTS Silver 8x
Mizuno MP Fli Hi 21°, Recoil 110

MP-20 MMC  5-P, DG X100
SM7 50F, 54S, 58M
PXG Closer Gen 2  
Tour BX

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