Torrey South ready for the U.S. Open

[Righty to Lefty]

16 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

I've played Torrey and i agree it's not a "spectacular" course in a lot of ways. You don't drive up to it in awe of the setting. @Righty to Lefty is also correct that the views you always see from above are not what you see playing the course. Hole #4 is a great example, you dont really feel like you are on the ocean, it's further away than the pictures look.

 

Torrey is a US open course because it's long from the tips and they have no problem growing the rough there and getting the greens to play fast.

 

Walk through the gates at Whistling Straights and it's like a surreal sight, like a different planet. That's an iconic course, type setting.

 

If the rough isn't long, i could see -7 to -10 winning it easily

I had just played Crossing at Carlsbad the day prior and really  enjoyed that course and was super excited to play TP and it was just very underwhelming.  You are right when you say that the ocean is way in the background and the course doesn't interact with it at all unlike on Pebble for instance on some of the holes.  The cliff next to hole number four when seeing it from a paraglider's perspective is very steep but you get no feel of that when playing the hole at all.  #3 and #4 are very basic holes and there is nothing great about either one of them.  The course is so straight that I didn't even find that it played long because it is so straight with very little elevation change.  Your impression of Whistling Straits is the same thing my colleagues said about the Ocean course where you are just overwhelmed by the visual setup of the course and it never lets up during the round.  You are hitting over the marshlands and you are being toyed with visually from the tee box and the course will push you to your max.  The course that I have never played that also give me that exact feeling when I see it played is TPC Sawgrass where #17 gets all the hype but there are many other holes on that course that are better in my opinion. TP is just not in that class in my opinion yet it is priced like it is.    

[orr444]

On 5/28/2021 at 9:04 PM, Golf10 said:

 

All of those are great courses Ichiro.  It's tough for them to get an Open now because the USGA is going to more of a rota like the Open Championship.  My thoughts on these:

 

- Baltusrol - on the schedule for 2029 PGA.  Currently in bed with the PGA.  Hanse did an excellent Tillinghast restoration there

- Hazeltine - I think Oakland Hills and Erin Hills in the midwest will get one before Hazeltine.  Had a PGA/Ryder Cup not long ago

- Cherry Hills - Great track that some people say is now too short at its altitude

- Inverness - Could see them getting one but when?  Andrew Green did great work there

• 2021 U.S. Open: June 17-20, Torrey Pines Golf Course, San Diego, Calif.
• 2022 U.S. Open: June 16-19, The Country Club, Brookline, Mass.
• 2023 U.S. Open: June 15-18, Los Angeles Country Club, Los Angeles, Calif.
• 2024 U.S. Open: June 13-16, Pinehurst Resort & Country Club, Village of Pinehurst, N.C.
• 2025 U.S. Open: June 12-15, Oakmont Country Club, Oakmont, Pa.
• 2026 U.S. Open: June 18-21, Shinnecock Hills Golf Club, Southampton, N.Y.
• 2027 U.S. Open: June 17-20, Pebble Beach Golf Links, Pebble Beach, Calif.
• 2028 - My guess - Oakland Hills (Hanse restored to Ross)
• 2029 - Pinehurst - confirmed
• 2030 - My guess - Merion (100th anniversary of Bobby Jones' grand slam)

 

104th PGA Championship
Southern Hills Country Club
Tulsa, Oklahoma
May 2022

105th PGA Championship
Oak Hill Country Club
East Course
Pittsford, New York
May 2023

106th PGA Championship
Valhalla Golf Club
Louisville, Kentucky
May 2024

107th PGA Championship
Quail Hollow Club
Charlotte, NC
May 2025

108th PGA Championship
Aronimink Golf Club
Newtown Square, Pennsylvania
May 2026

109th PGA Championship
PGA Frisco
Frisco, Texas
May 2027

110th PGA Championship
The Olympic Club
Lake Course
San Francisco, California
May 2028

111th PGA Championship
Baltusrol Golf Club
Lower Course
Springfield, New Jersey
May 2029

112th PGA Championship
TBD
May 2030

113th PGA Championship
Congressional Country Club
Blue Course
Bethesda, Maryland
May 2031

116th PGA Championship
PGA Frisco
Frisco, Texas
May 2034

Hazeltine has another Ryder cup coming

[JohnnyCashForever]

On 5/30/2021 at 10:35 AM, stingerfade said:

Played Torrey a bunch a d agree it’s pretty blah except a few holes along the ocean. Holes are very unremarkable considering all the hoopla it gets. It’s just long and pretty straight. 

 

On 5/28/2021 at 9:49 PM, Golf10 said:

 

Oh I don't hate Torrey at all.  It's a great municipal course, one of the best in the country.  It also plays great every year in the regular tour event.  I just don't like a US Open there.  Admittedly I'm old school but I like my Opens at great classic tracks like Oakmont...

 

The objection to Torrey Pines as a US Open venue is a little puzzling and IMO, premature.  If the true test of a US Open venue is the quality of its champions, then it really is too early to judge Torrey Pines. 

 

The gold standard, IMO, is definitely Oakmont.  It has hosted 9 US Opens with an impressive list of champions:

 

2016: Dustin Johnson (2 major wins and counting)

2007: Angel Cabrera (2)

1994: Ernie Els (4)

1983: Larry Nelson (3)

1973: Johnny Miller (2)

1962: Jack Nicklaus (18)

1953: Ben Hogan (9)

1935: Sam Parks, Jr. (1)

1927: Tommy Armour (3) 

 

With the exception of Sam Parks, Jr., all the other US Open winners at Oakmont are multiple major winners.  Very impressive for Oakmont.  Rightfully so. 

 

Torrey Pines has only hosted one previous US Open, but the winner was Tiger.  If Rocco had won the playoff that year, then Torrey Pines would have gotten off to an inauspicious start.  Nothing against Rocco, but Tiger is Tiger.  If someone like Phil, Jordan, JT, Rory, Brooks, et. al. wins the US Open this year, then we really can't say anything bad about TP as a US Open venue.  Indeed, it would affirm that Torrey Pines might be a worthy venue for the championship.  Even if someone wins their 1st major at TP, it is too early to say one way or the other if TP is a bust.  We really need 4 or 5 US Opens there to tell if it is a course that produces championship caliber winners...and we need to see if the 1st-time winner goes on to bigger and better things.

 

An example of a course that is generally well-regarded as a championship layout but, in reality, is a bit sketchy is Olympic Club.  It has hosted the US Open 5 times.  The list of champions is a motley crew ranging from 2 multiple major winners (Lee Janzen and Billy Casper) on one end, and 3 1-major winners (Webb Simpson, Scott Simpson, and Jack Fleck) on the other.  The winning scores for those US Opens over 72 holes are impressively severe, ranging from -3 to +7.  But the high number of one-major winners there begs the question, is Olympic Club a worthy test or just so unpredictably difficult that any random pro can win a US Open there?  I guess time will tell.  If Webb Simpson wins another major, it might tip the scales in favor of Olympic Club.  If he doesn't, then who knows how worthy Olympic Club really is?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Neo1]

On 5/28/2021 at 6:33 PM, straightshot7 said:

as someone who lives in San Diego I couldn’t disagree more.

 

I don’t even get the resident rate at Torrey, but when I have played it, the conditions have been good.

 

most people I know do not even like the Crossings. 

it’s not a championship level course, nor does it have views like Torrey.
 

the two courses are not even comparable.

 

Also just my opinion and their opinions though. 

 

I second this opinion, though fun to play Crossings is a gimmicky resort style course that would never host a tour qualifier let alone a US open. I feel like half the people that dog Torrey South have never even played it, TV doesn't show the nuances of the course well at all.

[KRAMER1997]

Let me just say from a spectator POV (watching on TV) Olympic is amazing! I don't think Torrey is anywhere near as cool of a setup as Olympic!

[3whacker]

3 hours ago, JohnnyCashForever said:

 

 

The objection to Torrey Pines as a US Open venue is a little puzzling and IMO, premature.  If the true test of a US Open venue is the quality of its champions, then it really is too early to judge Torrey Pines. 

 

The gold standard, IMO, is definitely Oakmont.  It has hosted 9 US Opens with an impressive list of champions:

 

2016: Dustin Johnson (2 major wins and counting)

2007: Angel Cabrera (2)

1994: Ernie Els (4)

1983: Larry Nelson (3)

1973: Johnny Miller (2)

1962: Jack Nicklaus (18)

1953: Ben Hogan (9)

1935: Sam Parks, Jr. (1)

1927: Tommy Armour (3) 

 

With the exception of Sam Parks, Jr., all the other US Open winners at Oakmont are multiple major winners.  Very impressive for Oakmont.  Rightfully so. 

 

Torrey Pines has only hosted one previous US Open, but the winner was Tiger.  If Rocco had won the playoff that year, then Torrey Pines would have gotten off to an inauspicious start.  Nothing against Rocco, but Tiger is Tiger.  If someone like Phil, Jordan, JT, Rory, Brooks, et. al. wins the US Open this year, then we really can't say anything bad about TP as a US Open venue.  Indeed, it would affirm that Torrey Pines might be a worthy venue for the championship.  Even if someone wins their 1st major at TP, it is too early to say one way or the other if TP is a bust.  We really need 4 or 5 US Opens there to tell if it is a course that produces championship caliber winners...and we need to see if the 1st-time winner goes on to bigger and better things.

 

An example of a course that is generally well-regarded as a championship layout but, in reality, is a bit sketchy is Olympic Club.  It has hosted the US Open 5 times.  The list of champions is a motley crew ranging from 2 multiple major winners (Lee Janzen and Billy Casper) on one end, and 3 1-major winners (Webb Simpson, Scott Simpson, and Jack Fleck) on the other.  The winning scores for those US Opens over 72 holes are impressively severe, ranging from -3 to +7.  But the high number of one-major winners there begs the question, is Olympic Club a worthy test or just so unpredictably difficult that any random pro can win a US Open there?  I guess time will tell.  If Webb Simpson wins another major, it might tip the scales in favor of Olympic Club.  If he doesn't, then who knows how worthy Olympic Club really is?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

do you remember who Scott Simpson and Jack Fleck beat to be the fluke winners of their US Open at Olympic

 

Simpson beat Tom Watson by a shot....and Jack Fleck beat Ben Hogan....fairly sure TW was in the field that Webb Simpson beat at Olympic

so  maybe lets not be dismissive on Olympic as a major USGA venue because of who won the championship there

[grm24]

1 hour ago, 3whacker said:

Simpson beat Tom Watson by a shot....and Jack Fleck beat Ben Hogan....fairly sure TW was in the field that Webb Simpson beat at Olympic

And he was. TW was tied for the lead after the 2nd round in 2012.

[3whacker]

Torrey Pines will forever be cemented in US Open history for the way TW won on a broken leg, not because it is considered a true test of golf for a national championship....

 

just like Jack cemented MVGC place in history when he anointed TW flop shot chip in from the green side rough as " the greatest shot" he has ever seen in golf...

[toddnt]

I love the hate Torrey gets and for those that dont like it.. Please keep your rear-ends away, makes it easier for locals to get times.

[RobotDoctor]

2 hours ago, toddnt said:

I love the hate Torrey gets and for those that dont like it.. Please keep your rear-ends away, makes it easier for locals to get times.

 

Locals get a better deal to play Torrey Pines than non-locals.  I have absolutely no issue with that.  However, put yourself in our position.  Would you pay over $200 to play Torrey Pines South?  Talk about gouging non-residents because the course now has hosted US Opens.  Frankly that price is outrageous for the course, even though the course is on prime real estate. 

[toddnt]

2 hours ago, RobotDoctor said:

 

Locals get a better deal to play Torrey Pines than non-locals.  I have absolutely no issue with that.  However, put yourself in our position.  Would you pay over $200 to play Torrey Pines South?  Talk about gouging non-residents because the course now has hosted US Opens.  Frankly that price is outrageous for the course, even though the course is on prime real estate. 

If I was on vacation or visiting, Id play it on a weekday and pay that rate just once!

[RobotDoctor]

Just now, toddnt said:

If I was on vacation or visiting, Id play it on a weekday and pay that rate just once!

 

That is what I did.  Torrey Pines South is a good course but not for $230 (or what ever I paid for it but it was north of $200).  If Torrey Pines South was $100 then I might consider playing it again.  I have played other courses worthy of US Opens for about $100 or so that I believe would be better venues than Torry Pines South.  Pumpkin Ridge / Ghost Creek course is one of those courses.  Another I just played for just under $100 (based on a member guest rate) is Broadmoor East golf course at The Broadmoor resort in Colorado Springs.  Both are, in my opinion, much better courses and would be terrific US Open venues.

[MUNIGRIT]

What is funny is I've heard a touring pro say they don't like the track as a regular tour event but love it as USO. The course was redesigned for a USO and guys are wishy washy on it as regular event. WRX guys are just the opposite.

[MUNIGRIT]

All they need to do to make the course better for USO is sell it to a private owner and have them make it into a private course!-wrx logic