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Randomly thought of this idea a couple days ago....maybe these places already exist but I don't know of any. Why don't we see places that have a really nice range with premium balls and an amazing short game area/putting green? Charge a couple hundred dollars per month to be a member. I would join a place like this.

 

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9 minutes ago, ClarkGrswld4 said:

Randomly thought of this idea a couple days ago....maybe these places already exist but I don't know of any. Why don't we see places that have a really nice range with premium balls and an amazing short game area/putting green? Charge a couple hundred dollars per month to be a member. I would join a place like this.

 

 

Thoughts of why not:

Range would be over used between range members and full members. 

Clubs don't want the members being "bothered" by none members.. Ie hitting them to take them out on the course. 

Club... If your willing to pay $200 a month for just the practice area why not join and use it all for  $200-300 more a mont

 

Not saying those are the reasons just more likely to be and I am sure many others....

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Not sure what you mean by range/full/non members. I'm not talking about a practice area attached to a golf course. I'm talking about a standalone piece of real estate that is nothing but a practice area. Think if you lifted the Augusta National practice area onto its own plot of land and turned it into a private club for practice.

Edited by ClarkGrswld4
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Okay I see your point now.   Probably cost of the land/development/mainteance  Vs rate of return. 

 

The course I practice at actually has a really nice practice area and range.    There is another one  but also has a 9 hole executive course associated.  Have not practiced at it though, it is pretty far from me but I hear good things.  Does not off memberships though.

 

Edit:  Green Valley Ranch in Denver has a range pass (membership as you note) and they have good facilities.   Don't recall the price.

Edited by CDM
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48 minutes ago, ClarkGrswld4 said:

Randomly thought of this idea a couple days ago....maybe these places already exist but I don't know of any. Why don't we see places that have a really nice range with premium balls and an amazing short game area/putting green? Charge a couple hundred dollars per month to be a member. I would join a place like this.

 

 

 

They do. It's called the range / practice area at a lot of private golf clubs.... All jokes aside I can see how the idea would seem good in theory, but not so much in reality.

 

For starters, no one who is a member at a private club is going to pay for a separate membership at a driving range. Next, the majority of casual golfers (think the 1 - 2 rounds a month crew) probably aren't going to be willing to spend money to practice a sport they play just for fun. That basically just leaves a target audience of hardcore golfers who are not members at a private club.

 

So ask yourself, how many of those people would be willing to pay $200 - $300 or more per month for something like this, and then also still pay their usual green fees multiple times a week at the public courses they frequent? For that amount per month they could easily just join a private club and get everything in one place.

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2 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

 

They do. It's called the range / practice area at a lot of private golf clubs.... All jokes aside I can see how the idea would seem good in theory, but not so much in reality.

 

For starters, no one who is a member at a private club is going to pay for a separate membership at a driving range. Next, the majority of casual golfers (think the 1 - 2 rounds a month crew) probably aren't going to be willing to spend money to practice a sport they play just for fun. That basically just leaves a target audience of hardcore golfers who are not members at a private club.

 

So ask yourself, how many of those people would be willing to pay $200 - $300 or more per month for something like this, and then also still pay their usual green fees multiple times a week at the public courses they frequent? For that amount per month they could easily just join a private club and get everything in one place.


In my area a lot of the private clubs are old, 1890-1920, and a fair share do not have great practice facilities. The one I’m a member of now (1927), and the one I grew up at (1897) both have practice facilities that are lacking. Neither course has a range longer than 240 yards. Something dedicated solely to practice would be welcome here for sure. 

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14 hours ago, MPAndreassi said:


In my area a lot of the private clubs are old, 1890-1920, and a fair share do not have great practice facilities. The one I’m a member of now (1927), and the one I grew up at (1897) both have practice facilities that are lacking. Neither course has a range longer than 240 yards. Something dedicated solely to practice would be welcome here for sure. 

 

But would you be willing to pay several hundred dollars a month in addition to your club membership dues just to be able to hit drivers (and maybe 3 woods) on the range? 

 

Maybe you would, and that's okay if so. However, I can't imagine the majority of people would be willing to spend the extra cash.

Edited by Abh159
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18 hours ago, ClarkGrswld4 said:

Randomly thought of this idea a couple days ago....maybe these places already exist but I don't know of any. Why don't we see places that have a really nice range with premium balls and an amazing short game area/putting green? Charge a couple hundred dollars per month to be a member. I would join a place like this.

 

 

We had something along those lines though not private.  It had a grass range and a short game area.

 

Short game area was a mess, always.  Nobody rakes after themselves.  Only a handful of people can use it at a given time lest you have safety issues (catch a skulled shot with your face).

 

The range all closed up as the value of the real estate was more than what the place could turn.

 

Then a few years back the other public range (with mini-golf, batting cages, sold clubs too, Otte's if you are from around BG) closed up shop.  The value of the land was more than the place could make.

 

If you are willing to pay a couple hundred dollars per month why not just join a club that has nice practice facilities?

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A private, Nicklaus-designed club near my house offers a range-only membership. Back in the day (20 years ago), it was only $500/yr (adding a spouse was half-price). You had your own area on the opposite side of the range, which meant that an employee shuttled you there and back. There weren't that many range members, so the grass was always in pristine shape. The short game area was just okay (I've heard they re-built it), and the putting greens were tiny and bad (when I went last year, they still were). The best part was access to the Nicklaus-designed 3-hole short course. The range membership was the best kept secret in south Denver, and it truly helped improve my game.

 

As technology improved distance, the range members were becoming targets, so they closed that side of the range a few years ago and increased the price to $800/yr. Now it's $1150/yr with no spouse discount.

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This idea has been tried. 
 
Too hard to keep up the conditions needed to be a “fancy” practice facility 

 

Not enough revenue from memberships alone, need to rely on other streams of revenue like food and bev. 
 
Need a lot of real estate and a key/convenient location. 
 
bottom line it doesn’t work. The closest thing to this model that has had success is a Topgolf.
 
 

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Knoxville, TN has such a facility that gets a lot of use:

 

https://fairwaysandgreens.com

 

Grass teeing area

Covered and heated outdoor hitting bays

Indoor hitting bays and practice green

2 outdoor greens

Short game area

Three-hole par 3 circuit

Outdoor Top Tracer (2 bays)

Professional instruction and club fitting

 

I tried it for a year at ~$800, since it was about 15 minutes from my place. However, I  didn't rejoin because:

 

The daily designated grass teeing area was chewed up quickly, so you had to practice early in the day.

 

The practice balls were not premium as adverised, but just normal range balls.

 

The short game area wasn't really large enough for more than 2-4 players at once.


Indoor hitting bays had no launch monitors, so not really useful to me

 

Use of Top Tracer was extra cost/hour

 

The practice area at my club is just as nice, has better range balls, and is no extra cost to me, albeit 25 minutes away instead of 15. In addition, the grass teeing area isn't always chewed up, and the short game area rarely has more than two players. It has no indoor bays, but I solved that problem by setting up a hitting area in my garage.

 

Of course, it doesn't have a Top Tracer, but I never used that anyway.

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48 minutes ago, HiTrajLoSpin said:

Knoxville, TN has such a facility that gets a lot of use:

 

https://fairwaysandgreens.com

 

Grass teeing area

Covered and heated outdoor hitting bays

Indoor hitting bays and practice green

2 outdoor greens

Short game area

Three-hole par 3 circuit

Outdoor Top Tracer (2 bays)

Professional instruction and club fitting

 

I tried it for a year at ~$800, since it was about 15 minutes from my place. However, I  didn't rejoin because:

 

The daily designated grass teeing area was chewed up quickly, so you had to practice early in the day.

 

The practice balls were not premium as adverised, but just normal range balls.

 

The short game area wasn't really large enough for more than 2-4 players at once.


Indoor hitting bays had no launch monitors, so not really useful to me

 

Use of Top Tracer was extra cost/hour

 

The practice area at my club is just as nice, has better range balls, and is no extra cost to me, albeit 25 minutes away instead of 15. In addition, the grass teeing area isn't always chewed up, and the short game area rarely has more than two players. It has no indoor bays, but I solved that problem by setting up a hitting area in my garage.

 

Of course, it doesn't have a Top Tracer, but I never used that anyway.

 

 

Interesting concept. I'm surprised I'd never heard of this place. 

 

During the year you were there, how frequently did they have to close the range because of the weather conditions? That's something else I'd worry about with a stand alone range/practice area. 

 

I know my club has to close the range the day after a big rain and sometimes for two days after. Granted it doesn't drain particularly well, but the range will get so wet that balls plug and the staff can't pick them up.

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There is a public course near me that has a range that is open to use for the people playing on the day. It's also available to people to just use the range for a regular bucket like a normal range might be. At the top end of the range though they have a chipping/pitching area that is not available to the public. You can pay $30 to be a member for a day - that allows you unlimited balls on the range and full use of the chipping/pitching area. I think that works and you do get some people using it. I think they limit the number of people that they allow to buy the day's membership, to keep usage down. That set up seems to work for them.

 

I'd think the costs of running a facility without the golf course tacked on would be prohibitively expensive. You'd need a full time greenkeeper and all the equipment that goes with it. If you have a golf course, then you have all that stuff on hand anyway, so the marginal cost would be small. To do it stand alone would be troublesome. $200 a month is a lot if I have to share that one green area with a bunch of other people, but if you keep headcount low enough to have it readily available, then you're not going to have enough income to make it worthwhile.

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Sounds like the Harmon Club outside of Boston.  They do have a 9-hole course, so not exactly what you described.  Only problem, according to a member I played with earlier this year, is that they have something like 900 members now and it's almost impossible to actually play the course.  But if all you care about is the practice areas, I guess that doesn't matter.

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similar but different idea is private indoor practice facilities with launch monitors/simulators. maybe short game area and fitness center depending on space. i've seen places offer monthly memberships in the $150-$300 range, with different options depending on upfront or monthly commitment, and seasonal (e.g. black friday) discounts.

 

can supplement revenue with private lessons, club fitting, personal training, sim leagues during winter, deals with local courses to help facilitate club/ball fitting events with your LMs and equipment, etc.

 

i've also seen places that have a mini top golf-like experience with indoor trackman and bar + dining for around $50/hour. 

 

i think doing something outdoors with lots of land is probably more difficult to make work in most markets. lots more capex and ongoing maintenance.

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5 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

 

Interesting concept. I'm surprised I'd never heard of this place. 

 

During the year you were there, how frequently did they have to close the range because of the weather conditions? That's something else I'd worry about with a stand alone range/practice area. 

 

I know my club has to close the range the day after a big rain and sometimes for two days after. Granted it doesn't drain particularly well, but the range will get so wet that balls plug and the staff can't pick them up.

 

The range would occasionally be closed after heavy rains to allow hand picking of the balls.

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I can't really see the practice only concept ever catching on - particularly if you must join up and pay monthly dues. Wouldn’t be much different than a normal driving range.  Why practice or warm up at one location and then have to drive else where to play.  At my club I can simply show up and practice as a single with no tee time on a holiday weekend for example and the starter will call me when an open comes. Our club has an excellent range and practice facility.  What is helpful for me is the practice greens are the same grass as the main course for consistent feel.  Plus they're maintained the same.  If I warm up on the practice green and its been just rolled - so has the main course.  My vote is simply pay the extra for membership to a good club and enjoy all the extra amenities - actual golf course, pool, gym, tennis, quality dining, social events, meeting good golf friends.  Plus the dues are typically family based so if your wife or kids play they have a home too.  Even if they don't its a place to bond as a family.  

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18 hours ago, hoselpalooza said:

similar but different idea is private indoor practice facilities with launch monitors/simulators. maybe short game area and fitness center depending on space. i've seen places offer monthly memberships in the $150-$300 range, with different options depending on upfront or monthly commitment, and seasonal (e.g. black friday) discounts.

 

can supplement revenue with private lessons, club fitting, personal training, sim leagues during winter, deals with local courses to help facilitate club/ball fitting events with your LMs and equipment, etc.

 

i've also seen places that have a mini top golf-like experience with indoor trackman and bar + dining for around $50/hour. 

 

i think doing something outdoors with lots of land is probably more difficult to make work in most markets. lots more capex and ongoing maintenance.

Just tough because once you're talking 300/mo you're getting close to country club dues range for juniors in lower COL areas. Obviously tons of people pay more than that for their clubs, especially older crowd but even as a good golfer 300/mo for a practice facility is tough to justify mentally. Also with that much money comes pretty high expectations like you need a lot of turf because people are going to chew it up. 

 

I do wish more CCs would invest in their practice facilities but most people aren't competitive and really trying to significantly improve their games so they don't value it near as much as the course or food&beverage, outside areas, etc. For me course is #1 and practice facility is #2 and then everything else is way way less important. Don't care if the bathroom has new tile or the closet has new carpet if the practice bunkers suck. 

 

I've heard of a ton of people that are members of the fairway and green one in TN but I hadn't heard the issues about it being chewed up turf wise, but makes sense if you have a ton of people using it. Would think you'd need way more teeing ground than average range has to offer. 

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I used to belong to a place like this, they had a public driving range and then a separate "members only" range you had to drive down to, located on the other end of the public range. A monthly membership got you unlimited range balls, they had a nice putting green, a bunker as well as a small short game area with a separate green where you could play any shot you wanted up to about 70 yards. When it first opened, membership was about $300. After a couple of years it went to $350, then $400, $450 etc. At that point I decided it wasn't worth it. I think 5 or so years later it was closed, then turned into a private baseball practice facility. 

 

Probably tough to find the right balance to compete with the public driving ranges as well as public/private clubs that also have their own practice areas. And a lot of golfers aren't really interested in practicing other than just beating balls at the range.

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21 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

Just tough because once you're talking 300/mo you're getting close to country club dues range for juniors in lower COL areas. Obviously tons of people pay more than that for their clubs, especially older crowd but even as a good golfer 300/mo for a practice facility is tough to justify mentally. Also with that much money comes pretty high expectations like you need a lot of turf because people are going to chew it up. 

 

I do wish more CCs would invest in their practice facilities but most people aren't competitive and really trying to significantly improve their games so they don't value it near as much as the course or food&beverage, outside areas, etc. For me course is #1 and practice facility is #2 and then everything else is way way less important. Don't care if the bathroom has new tile or the closet has new carpet if the practice bunkers suck. 

 

I've heard of a ton of people that are members of the fairway and green one in TN but I hadn't heard the issues about it being chewed up turf wise, but makes sense if you have a ton of people using it. Would think you'd need way more teeing ground than average range has to offer. 


To reiterate, the examples I shared are strictly indoors with top notch launch monitors or sims.
 

$300/mo was obviously the high end of pricing and is for people on a minimal monthly commitment. E.g. in a region where you can't play outside year round and just want indoor access for a couple of months or so.
 

Year round members would likely pay $150/mo or less depending on commitment term and whether they pay up front or month-to-month with early termination fee.

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22 hours ago, hoselpalooza said:


To reiterate, the examples I shared are strictly indoors with top notch launch monitors or sims.
 

$300/mo was obviously the high end of pricing and is for people on a minimal monthly commitment. E.g. in a region where you can't play outside year round and just want indoor access for a couple of months or so.
 

Year round members would likely pay $150/mo or less depending on commitment term and whether they pay up front or month-to-month with early termination fee.

Sorry missed the indoor part.

 

I was actually a member at a place like this a few years ago, it was around 250/mo, I did it mainly because like you said in cold weather areas not really any other way to practice in winter. It was ok, had indoor putting and chipping. Problem IMO is usually greens you'd have indoors are pretty fast so you need a decent amount of space. Also had flightscope which simply isn't very good indoors in my experience even with stickers on the balls and the spin numbers were constantly off leading to distance being woefully off, like I could hit a 125 yd wedge shot 140 because it said it had 4000 spin. If they had foresight monitors would probably enjoy it as I've had better experiences indoors with those. Had 1 simulator bay and then like 6 hitting stations, putting and chipping area about as big as a normal practice green with 4-5 holes. 

 

The main threat I see to this is a lot of the local clubs around here are adding their own launch monitors/SIMs, so if that is the case then obviously none of the members would join another facility. There was a large junior golf presence at the place I went to with classes and etc, I think I was one of very few adults who did the membership there. So I think for this model to work you need a bunch of good golfers who are willing to pay that premium to work on game over winter and obviously essentially the shorter your outdoor season the better for a model like this.  

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