Referees: Common Rulings

[Newby]

22 minutes ago, jobin said:

Everyday golfers seem to know enough rules to get by and not antagonize others. Elite players, with ROs lurking, are frankly foolish to take on personal rulings of their ball coz if mistaken, big price to pay.

 

Call the RO, let him tell you the options, (maybe even give a suggestion) and then he carries the blame if mistaken.  Who cares about slow play, if rules issues involved, if the State Am Championship is at stake.

I hope you are joking. All referees, however senior or junior, should know they must not do that.

[jobin]

[Newby]

Yes. The referee in each case simply stated factual information, which is what the rules permit. He has not advised the player on how to make a stroke, which club to use, in what direction to play or where or how to drop or place a ball.

Incidentally, one of the obligations of a referee is to prevent a player from breaching a rule.

 

PS. The first incident is unlikely to produce such an outcome.

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Newby

[limegreengent]

Mmm

I thought a referee was allowed  to advise a player 

 "How to drop a ball"

I've told quite a few players that it must be dropped from the knee"

 

[rogolf]

8 hours ago, jobin said:

Imo and experience, scenarios 1 and 3 are more than the referee should say.  In scenario 1, the referee should have stopped at "either side of the path."  In scenario 3, the referee should have quit at "may not clean your ball."

[sui generis]

33 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Imo and experience, scenarios 1 and 3 are more than the referee should say.  In scenario 1, the referee should have stopped at "either side of the path."  In scenario 3, the referee should have quit at "may not clean your ball."

 

For me, context dictates how much, if any, leading I'm inclined to do. I'm more inclined to offer more to juniors than experienced players.

 

Even with experienced players, if I think I have something more, I'll hover in anticipation of follow-on questions.  🙂

 

PS I really like Newby's reminder that "one of the obligations of a referee is to prevent a player from breaching a rule."

[Newby]

5 hours ago, limegreengent said:

Mmm

I thought a referee was allowed  to advise a player 

 "How to drop a ball"

I've told quite a few players that it must be dropped from the knee"

 

Mis-wrote. I meant where in respect of getting a favourable bounce or roll. 

[limegreengent]

Newby -

Seehow easy it is to say/write  something ,be misunderstood or give the wrong impression .

 

Terfangolfer is on a learning curve and he should always talk to other referees when he is unsure why a ruling was made.

His biggest lesson--

The last thing you do is publicise any of your Colleague's perceived mistakes.

 

" What happens on the Green Mile stays on the Green Mile"

 

You work as a Team.

 

Don't worry Newby  - I'm not going to suggest you be warned or comment on your credentials for your faux Pas.

Edited August 8, 2021 by limegreengent

[TerpFangolfer]

16 minutes ago, limegreengent said:

See how easy it is to say/write  something ,be misunderstood or give the wrong impression .

 

Terfangolfer is on a learning curve and he should always talk to other referees when he is unsure why a ruling was made.

His biggest lesson--

The last thing you do is publicise any of your Colleague's perceived mistakes.

 

" What happens on the Green Mile stays on the Green Mile"

 

You work as a Team.

 

Don't worry - I'm not going to suggest you be warned or comment on your credentials for your faux Pas.

Trying to get your meaning here...agree I was looking for folks to discuss what happened...in relative anonymity. I guess from my username & my description of the event it could be guessed when/where this occurred,  but names are all protected.

And I definitely respect the opinions of the posters on this forum, and wanted to get opinions. 

 

Are you saying I shouldn't have posted this situation on WRX? That I should only have discussed with someone from my association? 

 

I did want to get opinions here, and also thought it was a useful scenario for discussion. 

[antip]

3 hours ago, TerpFangolfer said:

Trying to get your meaning here...agree I was looking for folks to discuss what happened...in relative anonymity. I guess from my username & my description of the event it could be guessed when/where this occurred,  but names are all protected.

And I definitely respect the opinions of the posters on this forum, and wanted to get opinions. 

 

Are you saying I shouldn't have posted this situation on WRX? That I should only have discussed with someone from my association? 

 

I did want to get opinions here, and also thought it was a useful scenario for discussion. 

I see no problem with discussing the issues here, it is a public forum, and there is a considerable amount and range of refereeing experience here that can be used as a sounding board/discussion basis.

Unless it is a big televised event, best to keep it anonymized, focussed purely on the rules or refereeing issues that arose.

IMO that refereeing action you identified was inappropriate, unjustified refereeing over-reach that simply should not happen.

[antip]

9 hours ago, rogolf said:

Imo and experience, scenarios 1 and 3 are more than the referee should say.  In scenario 1, the referee should have stopped at "either side of the path."  In scenario 3, the referee should have quit at "may not clean your ball."

Agree. Even #2 went too far IMO if this was a truly elite or professional field. I would also not use patronizing language like "Don't forget that..."

[TerpFangolfer]

On 7/14/2021 at 5:08 PM, davep043 said:

 

Thanks for the encouragement, I really do appreciate it.  I have a feeling that most situations will be pretty simple, and I'm sure there will be back up if I need it.  This is a fourball stroke play event, with local PGA professionals, so I may study the fourball rules in the days leading up.

I'm doing USGA 4-ball qualifier on Monday. So stroke play.

Thinking of the main things different about 4-ball. Scoring issues with marking the card (but that is not my responsibility).

 

Couple things I'm thinking about:

1. Partners providing "help" esp putts on green - different scenarios like described in I 23.8a(2)/1...or backstopping agreements 

2. Partner standing behind other partner - forbidden for caddies, also forbidden for players.

 

Any others you guys watch for?

[Sawgrass]

2 hours ago, TerpFangolfer said:

I'm doing USGA 4-ball qualifier on Monday. So stroke play.

Thinking of the main things different about 4-ball. Scoring issues with marking the card (but that is not my responsibility).

 

Couple things I'm thinking about:

1. Partners providing "help" esp putts on green - different scenarios like described in I 23.8a(2)/1...or backstopping agreements 

2. Partner standing behind other partner - forbidden for caddies, also forbidden for players.

 

Any others you guys watch for?

Bone up on which violations penalize only the player, and which penalize the side. 

[DLiver]

Very interesting thread gents. Well done.