What's a good "Putts per round" average?

[stephenmatt]

11 hours ago, DShepley said:

Isn't this only partly true?  What if a player sucks from 3-5 feet?  You also improve by avoiding two putts after you miss a green in regulation.

I agree with you but didn't want to be the one to say it. That statement did not really make much sense. You hit the nail on the head regarding 1 putting after missing a GIR.

[ThinkingPlus]

28 minutes ago, stephenmatt said:

I agree with you but didn't want to be the one to say it. That statement did not really make much sense. You hit the nail on the head regarding 1 putting after missing a GIR.

Reducing the number of 3 putts requires improvement in 2 areas.  You need to improve your lag putting so you get the ball inside of 6 feet or better consistently.  You also need to improve short putting inside of 6 feet.  The side benefit, of course, to improving short putting is more 1 putts getting up and down.

[Used to be a 3]

28 to 30 is great.  But I'm all over the board.  I get hot with the chips and putts and for a few rounds can average 27, 29 a round. Then all of a sudden I have 38 - 40 putts a round for a few rounds and can't break 85.  If you're not putting well, it's over, you're dead. If you're putting well, it covers a lot of sins and you can feel like you're a stick even though you're spraying the ball all over.

[Greenie]

For me the more greens in regulation I have the more putts I have in my round. I look to two putt everything. Throw in a three putt here and there and maybe a birdie here and there.

 

When I miss more greens I am usually good at my chipping and I have more one putts and hardly ever three putt. My putts go down.

 

I always say when my iron play is on my putting sucks. When my irons are off my putting seems good. In the end I usually end up with my usual score either way my game is. It all equals out.

 

[Celeras]

On 5/30/2021 at 1:39 PM, Cliffy2020 said:

(GIRS/2) + 22 (round up) =  Putting Benchmark for that round. (Scratch golfer)

 

I’d increase the +22 incrementally as handicap of player increases as well.

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like an absurd calculation. So if you hit 6 greens your benchmark is 25 putts? And... the number goes down the less greens you hit?🤔

[Cliffy2020]

1 hour ago, Celeras said:

 

That seems like an absurd calculation. So if you hit 6 greens your benchmark is 25 putts? And... the number goes down the less greens you hit?🤔

Yep. For a scratch golfer if I hit 6 greens, I’m dropping one for birdie, two putting the remaining 5 for 11 putts.  The remaining twelve holes I’m striving to get ten up&downs for an additional 14 putts = 25

 

This would be the benchmark (or ideal) number for a scratch golfer.

 

If you’re contemplating using less than 6 GIRS to calculate putts for a scratch golfer you’re getting into unrealistic scenarios and should just refer to the chart I copied and pasted for quick reference.

[Medson]

17 hours ago, xmanhockey7 said:

Putts per round? Meh. If you want to make it really simple track 3 putts and misses within 4ft. Still not perfect, but better than total putts. If you really want to see how good your putting is walk off your first putt then count number of putts from there. There are free sites online that will let you measure strokes gained putting if you know those two things. Also, you can walkoff the putts. 

 

Yup. If you walk off your first putt, you can also get a sense of how close/far your approach is from the flag. If you have many GIR and first putt is 20 ft, then you are doing well. If you wedge onto the green and first putt is 20 ft, then you probably also wanna spend sometimes on the short game. 

[blues72]

On 5/30/2021 at 4:25 PM, Cart Crasher said:

Just downloaded one.  Going to try it today and see if it works along side my SwingU app

After using Swing U for years, I just moved to V1 Game.  It takes a little more data entry, as you basically ‘track’ every shot but the data is very helpful.  It’s a little pricey though.  Might want to check it out.

[bladehunter]

6 hours ago, Cliffy2020 said:

Yep. For a scratch golfer if I hit 6 greens, I’m dropping one for birdie, two putting the remaining 5 for 11 putts.  The remaining twelve holes I’m striving to get ten up&downs for an additional 14 putts = 25

 

This would be the benchmark (or ideal) number for a scratch golfer.

 

If you’re contemplating using less than 6 GIRS to calculate putts for a scratch golfer you’re getting into unrealistic scenarios and should just refer to the chart I copied and pasted for quick reference.

Where’s the scratch player hitting less than 10 GIR ?   I’d even pump that up to 12.  I mean 4 are almost automatic with par 5s. Right ?  You get two swipes at those. 

[stingerfade]

On 5/30/2021 at 9:56 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Golfers don’t make more putts.  You improve by avoiding 3 putts.

You may have said this but I also like the advice - to improve don’t try and make more birdies you have to make less bogies 

[stingerfade]

40 minutes ago, blues72 said:

After using Swing U for years, I just moved to V1 Game.  It takes a little more data entry, as you basically ‘track’ every shot but the data is very helpful.  It’s a little pricey though.  Might want to check it out.

18 birdies is free gps and some stat tracking. Works pretty good and easy to input 

[PracticeSwinger]

14 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Reducing the number of 3 putts requires improvement in 2 areas.  You need to improve your lag putting so you get the ball inside of 6 feet or better consistently.  You also need to improve short putting inside of 6 feet.  The side benefit, of course, to improving short putting is more 1 putts getting up and down.

I think that's the biggest improvment possible for single caps... you got there with decent ball striking - so you've got a lot of GIR chances... and you're not scratch or + yet because that approach shot usually gets you in the 30-50 feet range (either: putting / fringe / chip / lob / pitch / sand)... and you'll also have another shot in the 3-6 feet range... if you polish these two very frequent shots / and make sure they don't become three more often than it should - that index is doing down

[xmanhockey7]

On 6/1/2021 at 2:40 AM, Medson said:

 

Yup. If you walk off your first putt, you can also get a sense of how close/far your approach is from the flag. If you have many GIR and first putt is 20 ft, then you are doing well. If you wedge onto the green and first putt is 20 ft, then you probably also wanna spend sometimes on the short game. 

Also depends on how far you are with the wedge. Green side 20ft probably isn’t good. 100y it’s not bad. Your average from there is about 18’ IIRC. 

[SNIPERBBB]

13 minutes ago, xmanhockey7 said:

Also depends on how far you are with the wedge. Green side 20ft probably isn’t good. 100y it’s not bad. Your average from there is about 18’ IIRC. 

For pros it's worse than that.

[xmanhockey7]

6 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

For pros it's worse than that.

It says “Your average” but it’s supposed to say “Tour average”. Darn autocorrect. 

[jonsnow]

I'm an older guy (63) & have been playing for more than 50 years. For probably 45 of those years I've tracked my stats on a scorecard for each 18 hole round. I track fairways hit with a notation if I missed right or left; greens hit with a notation if missed right, left, short, long or NS for No Shot: stymied behind a tree, OB, water, etc. I track the number of up & downs from 50 yards & include a separate line for bunkers: up & down 4/7, same thing for greenside bunkers.

 

For putts, I track total # of putts & make percentage from 10 feet & in discounting tap ins. It's not perfect but it gives me a pretty good idea of what I need to improve on. 28 putts & 6/9 from 10 feet & in is a pretty good putting day. If I still shot 87 I know the problem lies somewhere else on the scorecard. Doesn't require any software, gets me to think about the round I just played ( which I think is important) as I fill out the card & I've got thousands of cards I can go back & look at to remember when I used to actually be able to play a bit...

Edited June 3, 2021 by jonsnow

[Used to be a 3]

On 6/1/2021 at 7:24 AM, bladehunter said:

Where’s the scratch player hitting less than 10 GIR ?   I’d even pump that up to 12.  I mean 4 are almost automatic with par 5s. Right ?  You get two swipes at those. 

I read that scratch golfers average 10-1/2 to 11 GIR. I can't vouch for that, just what I read.

[SNIPERBBB]

1 minute ago, Used to be a 3 said:

I read that scratch golfers average 10-1/2 to 11 GIR. I can't vouch for that, just what I read.

Some of the distance challenged senior golfers playing from the senior tees can get by with fewer GIRs as they're chipping/putting fools and there's not any forced carries to reach greens.

[Used to be a 3]

Just now, SNIPERBBB said:

Some of the distance challenged senior golfers playing from the senior tees can get by with fewer GIRs as they're chipping/putting fools and there's not any forced carries to reach greens.

I played a fellow in my club's match play tourney, championship flight, 35 years ago. Old guy in his 60s, 120lbs dripping wet. Couldn't drive the ball 190 yards. I was young and limber and ripping them 50 yards past. But he couldn't reach most of the par 4s in two. Thought it would be duck soup easy to take this guy. He hit everything dead straight the whole round, don't think he missed a putt inside of 6' and made a fair percentage of putts in the 6' to 12' range, probably over half. We putted everything out (because he was the kind of guy who did it even in match play) and he shot 4 over for 18 holes. Couldn't have had > 25 putts. No way. Closed me out 4 and 3. Humbling experience. 

[MaineMariner]

I'm a mid-handicapper currently (11ish). I started off my last round with SIX greens in regulation in a row. I ended up with five two-putts and one three-putt. Or in other words, five pars and a bogey. One of the birdie putts was from two feet.

 

That's, uh... bad, right? 

[bluedot]

4 hours ago, Used to be a 3 said:

I read that scratch golfers average 10-1/2 to 11 GIR. I can't vouch for that, just what I read.

Most scratch guys will be REALLY unhappy with a round where they hit 6 greens; I think 11 might be a realistic average.

 

BUT there is a MUCH bigger difference in the quality of ball-striking between 6 and 11 GIR's than the 5 greens missed.  On a day when you hit 12 greens, you are likely to be hitting the ball well, and your misses on the other 6 greens tend not to be very bad, and in a place where getting up and down is more than possible, especially for a player who understands course management and where to miss.  By contrast, on the days when you hit only 6 greens, misses tend to be much more random, and in places where getting up and down often isn't realistic.

 

A scratch golfer who misses 6 or 7 greens might very well have a putter in his hand on half the greens he missed; the ball-striking skills of scratch golfers are that good.

[Mcgeeno]

Obviously I'm not as analytical as many here. My goal was always to be around 30 putts when I'm playing great with zero 3 jacks.

 

32-33 puts is solid for me. I average right around 31.5 last I checked. 

 

I used to average closer to 34-35 and then I worked on my lag putting and inside 3 feet putting for hours and hours and hours. Now I'm a good putter. 

 

 

 

[bluedot]

This discussion is EXACTLY what started Mark Broadie down the road to "strokes gained". 

 

On one hand, we all know that there is a very frequent statistical illusion to total putts for a single round; if I hit a lot of greens, I'll have more putts, and if I miss a lot of greens, I'll have fewer putts, with neither of those having much to do with how well I putted.

 

On the other hand, we all know that if, over a lot of rounds, one guy averages 32 putts and another guy who hits a similar number of fairways and greens averages 35 putts, the first guy is almost certainly a better putter.

 

Reconciling those two views of putting is tough.  The thing that Broadie's research into putting at all levels of the game has shown is that great putters three putt only VERY rarely, and when they do, it's usually much more about proximity of approach than about putting.
 

[Cart Crasher]

So, I downloaded and used Taylormade myRoundPro.  First time I used it, I just used the basic apple watch function and didn't mind where my putts were much.  I got basic info, helpful but not as detailed as I was hoping.

 

The second time I used it, I used the apple watch function again but I walked off and marked all my putts.  The instructions were to record your round and load it up on the app after and move the hole location and putts to where they were on the green.  I did that and it said "Processing round" and proceeded to do nothing so, I ended up having to delete that round.  Frustrating because for me, it was a GREAT round

 

I am noticing using the app though that, approach shots are consistently coming up short.  I've adjusted and it's helped

[Railroading13]

30 or lower

[Cart Crasher]

Thanks guys for everything.  I've been using MyRoundPro from TaylorMade and keeping my strokes gained stats.  It IS my approach and short game that is costing me strokes.  I have it targeted against a 5 hcp since that's my goal for this summer and right now, I'm +0.31 strokes gained putting so, even though I'm hitting 34ish putts per round, they seem to be good putts.  Driving is +0.27 SG with an avg driver distance of 252 yards.  Approach is -3.15 SG and short game is -2.36 SG.

[ChipNRun]

On 5/30/2021 at 1:06 AM, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

With a GiR, if I'm within 15ft of the hole (5 paces) I define it as a birdie chance" and if I'm within 10ft, it's a good birdie chance. 15ft~20ft is an "outside look at birdie", but occasionally I'll include a longer putt in this range if it fairly straight and, say, uphill.

 

Reminds me of a story from a local teaching pro. His junior year of college, he had low putts average for the Missouri Valley Conference. He said the real reason he had low putts was that he worked hard on his short game, and would drain several 5-footers a round to save par.

 

His senior year he improved his Greens In Regulation by +2 per round. But, he was no longer low-putts man. He had a extra 20 footers for birdie rather than tap ins for up-and-down par.

Edited June 11, 2021 by ChipNRun

[HackDaddy360]

I use total putts per round as a stand alone metric to evaluate my putting.  
 

I think of making putts as, well, making putts.  Birdie/par/bogey doesn’t really matter because they all need to go in.  My philosophy is if you just make a lot of putts you’ll probably score reasonably well.  
 

I also use total putts as a stand-alone metric for psychological boost:

 

You can putt better because you’re focused on making putts and not the score they’re for and the other aspects of the game the total putts figure could be representative of.  

 

I use it to draw confidence from making any putt I make. If I’m draining 10 footers for par over and over and finally hit a good iron shot to 9 feet I’m already rolling the rock well and am more likely to make the birdie putt - confidence in making putts is high.  
 

I’d be less likely if to convert that birdie if I just three jacked the last two greens because my putting is now rattled/not going well - not making putts - which decreases the chance I’ll be confident on the next one.  
 

Breaking it down beyond total putts isn’t bad it just clogs the mind with more to think about.  Some putts miss high, some miss low, some miss big but if you just say “make putts” then it’s the accurate measure - how many did you have?

 

It’s kind of like trying to take the range pro game to the course.   You do putting drills where you’re trying to make 10 in a row but the putts aren’t really “for” anything other than making a putt.  The drills are training your stroke, yes, but the real benefit is just thinking about making putts for the sake of it - eventually you get over the ball to putt on the course and all you think about with each putt is “make this putt” and not the implications of whether you make the putt or not.   

[rp4golf]

On 5/29/2021 at 10:33 PM, Cart Crasher said:

Through 21 rounds this year, I'm averaging 33.8 putts per round.  This really seems high to me.  I'm currently sitting at a 15.6 handicap.  Today, I had 6 birdie looks and only converted 1 of them and shot an 84 with 33 putts.  I know I can get better here but, what would be a good target number for me to shoot for?

 

3 hours ago, Cart Crasher said:

Thanks guys for everything.  I've been using MyRoundPro from TaylorMade and keeping my strokes gained stats.  It IS my approach and short game that is costing me strokes.  I have it targeted against a 5 hcp since that's my goal for this summer and right now, I'm +0.31 strokes gained putting so, even though I'm hitting 34ish putts per round, they seem to be good putts.  Driving is +0.27 SG with an avg driver distance of 252 yards.  Approach is -3.15 SG and short game is -2.36 SG.

Even looking at the scorecard from your OP, and just factoring how many bogies and double-bogies you make, I'm astounded you have so many 2-putt greens. ... So I agree with your latest contention that your short game is letting you down more than your putting itself.
I also agree with an earlier poster about "birdie looks" is that I think your expectationuss are too high. I mean, just because you have a GIR (green in regulation) shouldn't in and of itself mean you have a birdie look. If you have a 5-10 footer that's a birdie look, otherwise if you're facing a lot of 20-footers you should be praying for a 2-putt ... and at your current level of putting, any that you're making in the 10-foot plus range are more luck than anything - even Tour pros only make 40% of putts from 10 feet.

Anyways, I've always considered it that if you're missing more greens that you should have fewer putts per round (easily in the 20-something per round range), being as you should be leaving yourself shorter putts after your short chips and pitches to greens - and as a result your scores should be lower than they are. Whereas lower handicap golfers, who typically hit more greens in regulation, are going to have more putts per round (in the 30+ range) because they face more longer putts.

 

[Ty_Webb]

One thing I didn't see mentioned is that green size is going to impact your putts per round. If you have a mediocre approach play day and your course's greens are enormous then you might still hit a lot of greens and leave yourself average first putts of maybe 40 feet. Have the exact same day, but on a course with small greens and you're missing a lot of them and will wind up with maybe 10-15 foot average first putts. If your total putts on the first one is 36, you've had a pretty stellar putting day and would be strokes gained positive vs PGA Tour. If your total putts on the second day is 33, you'll have lost strokes.