Will any current manufacturers go the way of MacGregor?

[bluedot]

What happened to MacGregor happens to companies that are dominant in their market, but because of their size and dominance, aren't very nimble and also tend to assume they will always be dominant.  The best analogy I can think of is General Motors, which was saved only by a government bail out because they were, quite literally, too big to fail.

 

MacGregor didn't adapt to perimeter weighted irons, and they didn't adapt to metal woods.  The game changed a lot faster than they did, and it was over in a hurry.  Wilson would have been the same without parent company money and their continued revenue from other sports; the A2000 baseball glove and the Wilson Jet basketball are still approaching market standard status.

 

It's possible that golf equipment will never again change the way it did with Ping irons and TM woods, so it's possible that there will never be anything quite like what happened to MacGregor.  I don't think Cobra or PXG or any of the other smaller players in the golf equipment market have anything like the market share MacGregor once held, and their failure and demise, if they happened, won't be similar to what happened to MacGregor.  There was a time not too long ago, when serious golfers had MacGregor persimmon Eye-o-matic woods, and a lot of them had MacGregor blades as well.  MacGregor thought it would always be thus, and they were wrong.

[lefthack]

If PXG releases a tetherball or badminton set, we'll know who is going down next.

[Stevens24]

57 minutes ago, lefthack said:

If PXG releases a tetherball or badminton set, we'll know who is going down next.

Neither of those interest me. Now a croquet set and I am in

[lefthack]

2 minutes ago, Stevens24 said:

Neither of those interest me. Now a croquet set and I am in

 

Imagine the price though, damn. 🤣

[Bentron]

4 hours ago, dmbrill719 said:

Taylor Made just based of the two recent sales...one group made a killing, the most recent group is paying a premium.  That premium will put additional pressure leading to poor decisions that will impact them in the long-term.  

I wanted to say it just didn’t want to be the first. 

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, JAM01 said:

Not sure the PXG full bag set is the typical “box set.” 

Depends on what your definition of “ is “ is.....😂

 

( a little Bill Clinton humor) No offense to the Bob faithful . Like I said before. I owned several of their clubs recently, and the quality is truly second to none.  If the opportunity were in front of me for a fitment I could easily play the hybrid or 3 wood.  Maybe a set of ST irons.  

 

[JAM01]

17 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Depends on what your definition of “ is “ is.....😂

 

( a little Bill Clinton humor) No offense to the Bob faithful . Like I said before. I owned several of their clubs recently, and the quality is truly second to none.  If the opportunity were in front of me for a fitment I could easily play the hybrid or 3 wood.  Maybe a set of ST irons.  

 

Agree - I went with the 0211 DC irons, but at the current cost those STs are sweet. Also, from order to delivery was 10 days with a high quality graphite shaft. 

[mantan]

9 hours ago, Abh159 said:

Cleveland is already on it's way out in my opinion. Although being a part of Srixon might keep them around for a while.

 

10-20 years ago they were all over the place. You would see at least one 588 wedge in every golfers bag, the launcher drivers were really popular as well, and I knew a good bit of people that played those tour action irons. 

 

Fast forward to 2021 and aside from the occasional RTX wedge I don't ever see any Cleveland clubs in peoples bags. Even the wedges have fallen out of popularity. I see 10x as many Vokeys, TM, and Callaway wedges compared to Cleveland.

 

It feels a bit like they've been through this. There was a period where Cleveland was going to be their US focused brand and Srixon was their Asian market brand. But Cleveland's US rep had dropped by then. And the cast SGI/GI market was just too crowded for Cleveland to get noticed with some good, but not great irons.  (A long fall for a company that made the iconic (TA5s and TA7s).

 

They feel like they are fighting for an identity. Their woods/irons are competitive on price point, but just don't get the buzz for more golfers to give them a shot. The concept of the CBX2 wedges is good, but you see Callaway already dropping something in that vein. And everybody makes good wedges now, so it's going to be hard for them to recover the huge market share they used to have.

 

Meanwhile Srixon is starting to get more pub. Having clubs in the bag of 2 of the last 3 major winners was a ton of good publicity. Their irons have a lot more buzz and they are trying to elbow into the big boy table with woods too.

 

 

[Texas Golfer]

2 hours ago, lefthack said:

If PXG releases a tetherball or badminton set, we'll know who is going down next.

...And then there would need to be a BadmintonWrx forum.

[MikeW2]

1 hour ago, lefthack said:

 

Imagine the price though, damn. 🤣

I would love to find out how the science of sexy could be brought to the world’s foremost lawn game.

[GatorNate11]

5 hours ago, lefthack said:

If PXG releases a tetherball or badminton set, we'll know who is going down next.

I won my elementary school badminton championship in 5th grade. If PXG would've been making custom badminton gear, I would've come in there with all of it to let those 9 year olds know it was over before it even started.

[GatorNate11]

I feel like Wilson is always hanging on for dear life in the golf market, but it also seems like the brand doesn't really care much about golf. Growing up, I'd say 7/10 kids had A2000 gloves, our footballs were always various Wilson's from little league through high school (I think every high school we played against used the GST, us included) and a fair amount of basketball tournaments were Wilson (I'd say Spalding was still the winner in basketball from my experience). It almost feels like the brand as a whole makes enough that they just aren't really concerned with golf, which also makes me think they wouldn't be that concerned with just pulling the plug on a whim. 

 

It seems everyone is giving well thought out points, so allow me to say something wildly stupid and off the cuff to buck the trend: 

The next company out of golf will be WRX itself. Club Pro Guy will buy it and sell it to fund the hiring of a second beverage cart girl. You heard it here first.  

[mukster]

“Nobody used to make golf clubs the way we did. Period.”

[CasualLie]

The problem for PXG is that other then the few junior golfers in a handful of zip codes with fd up parents, they are not building brand loyalty early.  Every major OEM, including the ones that failed sold a lot of clubs to the masses, sold a lot of clubs to young players some of which went on to be exceptional players worthy of sponsoring.  The marketing budget grew as a result of a strong following.

 

PXG bought their way in at the start.  Paying tour players and splashy marketing gets really expensive and without a wide base of customers not sustainable.  I'm not saying PXG is gone in 20 years but something has to give.

[Old Tom Morris]

8 hours ago, CasualLie said:

The problem for PXG is that other then the few junior golfers in a handful of zip codes with fd up parents, they are not building brand loyalty early.  Every major OEM, including the ones that failed sold a lot of clubs to the masses, sold a lot of clubs to young players some of which went on to be exceptional players worthy of sponsoring.  The marketing budget grew as a result of a strong following.

 

PXG bought their way in at the start.  Paying tour players and splashy marketing gets really expensive and without a wide base of customers not sustainable.  I'm not saying PXG is gone in 20 years but something has to give.

House brand in a sporting goods store after Parsons dies.

[mogc60]

19 hours ago, mantan said:

 

It feels a bit like they've been through this. There was a period where Cleveland was going to be their US focused brand and Srixon was their Asian market brand. But Cleveland's US rep had dropped by then. And the cast SGI/GI market was just too crowded for Cleveland to get noticed with some good, but not great irons.  (A long fall for a company that made the iconic (TA5s and TA7s).

 

They feel like they are fighting for an identity. Their woods/irons are competitive on price point, but just don't get the buzz for more golfers to give them a shot. The concept of the CBX2 wedges is good, but you see Callaway already dropping something in that vein. And everybody makes good wedges now, so it's going to be hard for them to recover the huge market share they used to have.

 

Meanwhile Srixon is starting to get more pub. Having clubs in the bag of 2 of the last 3 major winners was a ton of good publicity. Their irons have a lot more buzz and they are trying to elbow into the big boy table with woods too.

 

 

When we think of Cleveland, what do we think of? Wedges. Not really much else. Srixon thought the same thing. Srixon used to market wedges, now they don’t. That’s Cleveland’s role. That and SGI woods and irons and putters. Srixon is all forged models and premium wood offerings. I think it’s been a very successful model for their company and I don’t see Cleveland being in any trouble 

[mvhoffman]

I don't know if any struggling company will go that way anymore.  There are so many DTC brands that have taken up in that price point.  If something happens, the budget sets that are out there now are the Sub 70, NL, etc. that have exceptional quality.

[uglande]

DOOMED

PXG is not long for this world and it can't die soon enough.

Honma got some attention with some big endorsements, but Justin Rose already bailed and the company (in the U.S.) has drifted back into obscurity.

 

VULNERABLE

Wilson is no longer relevant in the U.S. but might continue to serve as an affordable brand overseas.

Srixon is still more popular overseas but has stepped up in U.S. with some good clubs (and some nice social media promotion from Crossfield, TXG, etc). I still wouldn't say they're over the hump but they're going in right direction.

Cleveland is basically just a mediocre wedge-maker and at this point. The former leader has been lapped by every other major OEM in the past 10 years.

 

SOLID BUT WATCH OUT

Callaway floods the market with products, which is a risky business model. Good customer service and quality despite that. Still doesn't have quite the cache it used to, so could be in danger at some point if not careful.

TaylorMade also floods the market and relies on cheap marketing gimmicks. God I hate this company. Quality control and customer service are also crap. They are probably in very good shape right now, but I could see them getting overextended and spiraling quickly at some point down the road.

Cobra was always a secondary brand but has done really well the past 5+ years with some nice products (esp woods and hybrids) and some good marketing (Ricky, Bryson). But their overall lineup still seems second-tier (esp irons and wedges) and with so much of their brand oriented around endorsers who are overrated (Ricky) and polarizing (Bryson), it's not inconceivable that things could unravel for them. 

 

GOING NOWHERE

Titleist is rock solid. Everything is quality. No gimmicks. Stellar reputation on tour. Can be a bit haughty at times, and customer service is not great. But I think Titleist will remain an anchor brand for as long as I'm alive.

Ping produces some strange designs and occasionally makes some odd choices but they have great quality control and customer service and are an appealing brand to every category of golfer.

Mizuno does better overseas and is more of a niche brand compared to some others, but they now have great products top to bottom. For the first time ever, I considered playing a full bag of Mizuno this year. I didn't, but I could have done that without any hesitation. Great clubs, excellent shaft options, affordable, innovative but without the B.S. (And who doesn't like Chris Voshall?)

Miura is a more exotic brand that doesn't sell a lot but they know what they do well and have loyal customers.

 

[nitram]

I haven't seen anyone mention Hogan. They're still plugging along but nothing compared to what they were two decades or more ago.

[Intact28]

1 hour ago, uglande said:

DOOMED

PXG is not long for this world and it can't die soon enough.

Honma got some attention with some big endorsements, but Justin Rose already bailed and the company (in the U.S.) has drifted back into obscurity.

 

VULNERABLE

Wilson is no longer relevant in the U.S. but might continue to serve as an affordable brand overseas.

Srixon is still more popular overseas but has stepped up in U.S. with some good clubs (and some nice social media promotion from Crossfield, TXG, etc). I still wouldn't say they're over the hump but they're going in right direction.

Cleveland is basically just a mediocre wedge-maker and at this point. The former leader has been lapped by every other major OEM in the past 10 years.

 

SOLID BUT WATCH OUT

Callaway floods the market with products, which is a risky business model. Good customer service and quality despite that. Still doesn't have quite the cache it used to, so could be in danger at some point if not careful.

TaylorMade also floods the market and relies on cheap marketing gimmicks. God I hate this company. Quality control and customer service are also crap. They are probably in very good shape right now, but I could see them getting overextended and spiraling quickly at some point down the road.

Cobra was always a secondary brand but has done really well the past 5+ years with some nice products (esp woods and hybrids) and some good marketing (Ricky, Bryson). But their overall lineup still seems second-tier (esp irons and wedges) and with so much of their brand oriented around endorsers who are overrated (Ricky) and polarizing (Bryson), it's not inconceivable that things could unravel for them. 

 

GOING NOWHERE

Titleist is rock solid. Everything is quality. No gimmicks. Stellar reputation on tour. Can be a bit haughty at times, and customer service is not great. But I think Titleist will remain an anchor brand for as long as I'm alive.

Ping produces some strange designs and occasionally makes some odd choices but they have great quality control and customer service and are an appealing brand to every category of golfer.

Mizuno does better overseas and is more of a niche brand compared to some others, but they now have great products top to bottom. For the first time ever, I considered playing a full bag of Mizuno this year. I didn't, but I could have done that without any hesitation. Great clubs, excellent shaft options, affordable, innovative but without the B.S. (And who doesn't like Chris Voshall?)

Miura is a more exotic brand that doesn't sell a lot but they know what they do well and have loyal customers.

 

 One note on Ping, they are the only manufacturer that has banned online sales in the EU. To buy any ping product you need to go to a store or  cheat the system by phoning the customer service of the store in question. Can't see that being a successful strategy in a world where sales are increasingly done online

Edited June 3, 2021 by Intact28

[Bentron]

2 minutes ago, Intact28 said:

 One note on Ping, they are the only manufacturer that has banned online sales in the EU. To buy any ping product you need to go to a store och cheat the system by phoning the customer service of the store in question. Can't see that being a successful strategy in a world where sales are increasingly done online

Refusing to adapt has always worked out well for companies, I mean who doesn't go to their local blockbuster down the street still! 

[nostatic]

On 6/1/2021 at 6:42 PM, Texas Golfer said:

...And then there would need to be a BadmintonWrx forum.

 

already is - the game is serious stuff in Asia. Plus you have a shuttlecock sub-forum - winning!

 

https://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/index.php?forums/shuttlecock.136/

Edited June 3, 2021 by nostatic

[bluedot]

If the comparison is going to be what happened to MacGregor, then the only companies that can be considered are Ping, Titleist, Callaway, and Taylormade.  All the others that have been mentioned are small, though important, players in terms of total market share; MacGregor was dominant for decades.

 

Go into a classic clubs market place, either brick and mortar or online.  The vast majority of the woods, and a lot of the irons, will be MacGregor.  There just wasn't anything on the market comparable to the MacGregor Eye-o-matic persimmon woods; they were the 800 lb gorilla of their day.

[mahonie]

Logically, Titleist would appear to be the most vulnerable. There is a reason Titleist is so vociferous in the distance debate because anything affecting sales of the Pro V1 will massively impact on their bottom line. I’m not sure how their club sales are performing now but it was reported a few years back that they were losing money on every club they sold and relied heavily on the Pro V1 to keep in the black. If the RBs do something to level the field specifically relating to the ball, I can see Titleist being hit badly...no pun intended.

 

[Nessism]

6 hours ago, nitram said:

I haven't seen anyone mention Hogan. They're still plugging along but nothing compared to what they were two decades or more ago.

 

Hogan has already gone the way of MacGregor, and many other manufacturers mentioned in this thread have too.  Basically they were once a big proud company that fell on hard times and were sold, multiple times, such that they are nothing like the company they once were.  

[mogc60]

6 hours ago, nitram said:

I haven't seen anyone mention Hogan. They're still plugging along but nothing compared to what they were two decades or more ago.

This current version of Hogan is after several ownership changes, Spalding, Callaway and after a disappearing act came back as DTC. They’ve been on the thread for 20 years.