Why is it easier to feel the head on a blade iron?

[klbcec]

I want to find a cavity back I like. But every time I try one, I feel like I lose the position of the head during the swing?  In other words, with a blade I can feel whether the head is open or closed throughout the swing, and use that feel to hit the intended shot. With cavity backs I lose that feel.

 

Is that related to the weight of the head, the swingweight, or something else?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[rp4golf]

Um, no.

[Conrad1953]

The blades transmit radio waves to your brain to activate your feel sensors.

[animalgolfs]

3 hours ago, klbcec said:

I want to find a cavity back I like. But every time I try one, I feel like I lose the position of the head during the swing?  In other words, with a blade I can feel whether the head is open or closed throughout the swing, and use that feel to hit the intended shot. With cavity backs I lose that feel.

 

Is that related to the weight of the head, the swingweight, or something else?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Positioning of the mass - especially related to the hosel. Blade length and where the weight has been positioned blades are generally a compact forged knife, precise instruments of modern men. Whereas cavity backs are these elongated spoons of Neanderthals 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by animalgolfs

[animalgolfs]

1 hour ago, Conrad1953 said:

The blades transmit radio waves to your brain to activate your feel sensors.

 

[erikro]

[RogerinNewZealand]

Top Wrx Tip

buy the blades.Feel Better.

[toc]

Definitely one of the more roundabout should I play blades threads I can remember. 

[the bishop]

With respect to the OP, I don't want to discount his experience but I don't agree.  The #1 determining factor for me in whether I can play an iron (game improvement or blade) is turf interaction - how does the head get through the ground.  While not the only reason I think it's a big part of the reason Srixon irons get as much love as they do on here - that V-sole greatly aids turf interaction for many.

[MtlJeff]

I think maybe we are missing the OP's question, because i feel like i know what he is talking about.

 

OP - In many cases blades will come with heavier shafts (like DG s300) and also play to a slightly higher swingweight in my experience.

 

Depending on what GI or SGI you have demo'd, you can end up with 85g shafts and heads that already play on the lighter side. Pings for example i find feel like feathers. My 4 and 5 irons in the G410 series i had to slather in lead tape in order to "feel" the head during the backswing.

 

So yes, it's been my experience too that in some cases more traditional game improvement style clubs, tend to feel lighter during the swing than a set of blades, particularly if it's an older set

 

I like GI's --I always use heavy shafts, and some lead tape especially on the long irons

[bladehunter]

The simple answer is head weight.  The MB will weigh more.  Like Jeff said. Shaft weight too.  Combo of a light head and 85g shaft equals no real feel for the clubface when compared to heavier . 

[Texas Golfer]

More (thicker) metal where the ball makes contact.  I also think that having the sweet spot closer to the hosel helps with the sense of feel.

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

The simple answer is head weight.  The MB will weigh more.  Like Jeff said. Shaft weight too.  Combo of a light head and 85g shaft equals no real feel for the clubface when compared to heavier . 

 

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

I think maybe we are missing the OP's question, because i feel like i know what he is talking about.

 

OP - In many cases blades will come with heavier shafts (like DG s300) and also play to a slightly higher swingweight in my experience.

 

Depending on what GI or SGI you have demo'd, you can end up with 85g shafts and heads that already play on the lighter side. Pings for example i find feel like feathers. My 4 and 5 irons in the G410 series i had to slather in lead tape in order to "feel" the head during the backswing.

 

So yes, it's been my experience too that in some cases more traditional game improvement style clubs, tend to feel lighter during the swing than a set of blades, particularly if it's an older set

 

I like GI's --I always use heavy shafts, and some lead tape especially on the long irons

These^^^

On average you will find heavier shafts and/or heavier headweights with blades simply because they are marketed towards a certain player, whereas any given cavity back or game improvement iron could weigh up to 60g+ lighter due to reduction in primarily shaft weight but also headweight and even grip weight at times. 

Be scientific about it. Measure the variables and account for the differences. 

[sevenputts]

I feel the same way, I think mass positioned in a more concentrated fashion ( a blade ) might feel different when being swung. Could be placebo, but I feel the same way..

[lefthack]

I concur with the idea of weighting and distribution.

 

<edit> I added a heavier shaft and 9g of head weight that allows me to "feel" where the head of my driver is. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by lefthack

[RayGorman]

8 minutes ago, sevenputts said:

I feel the same way, I think mass positioned in a more concentrated fashion ( a blade ) might feel different when being swung. Could be placebo, but I feel the same way..

 

Works with Drivers as well... I still struggle with these Volkswagens on a stick of today. I KNOW I could feel where my old steel shafted, tiny head metal driver of the 90's was at all times during the swing. It's one of the reasons many people can hit their 3 woods straighter with more control. Essentially the same weight, but in a more compact form. You can better 'feel' where the head is...

[Conrad1953]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

The simple answer is head weight.  The MB will weigh more.  Like Jeff said. Shaft weight too.  Combo of a light head and 85g shaft equals no real feel for the clubface when compared to heavier . 

 

Blade, here are some sample 6 iron head weights:

 

Titleist 718MB 261.5 grams

Titleist 716AP1 261.8 grams

Titleist 716AP2 260.7 grams

Mizuno MP20 259.4 grams

Mizuno JPX921 Hot Metal 256 .5 grams

Ping G410 255.9 grams

Ping Blueprint 258.6 grams

Mac VIP Vfoil 1025M 256 grams

Mac VIP Vfoil 1025CM 256 grams

 

I wonder if anyone can really feel these head weight differences.

 

Also, I have a set of Mac VIP Vfoil blades with "heavy" 130 gram Rifle shafts in them and they 

don't "feel" any heavier than my Ping S58s with Ping AWT shafts in them.

 

IMO, this is strictly a swing weight issue and has nothing to do with whether an iron head is

a blade or a big fat CB. 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Conrad1953

[RogerinNewZealand]

Featherweight Pings with 92 too 100 gram cs shafts,and c6 swing weight, my S58s as an example, i built each club up too d1, then d2, then d3.This was with lead tape.Then pulled, added tip weights.Then i went back too eg J33cb and dgs200 for more feel more weight lower flight. Also, if your big non aerodynamic person............your swing will snap those 85gram shafts....Conrad, for me, no way an S58 has the Feel of a j33cb or any Mizuno cb/blade eg mp 60 58 33 37 63, owned all these after the S58s.Or Apex Plus Hogan, or BH Grind Hogan........Just my opinion,cheers,Roger

[rp4golf]

33 minutes ago, Conrad1953 said:

 

Blade, here are some sample 6 iron head weights:

 

Titleist 718MB 261.5 grams

Titleist 716AP1 261.8 grams

Titleist 716AP2 260.7 grams

Mizuno MP20 259.4 grams

Mizuno JPX921 Hot Metal 256 .5 grams

Ping G410 255.9 grams

Ping Blueprint 258.6 grams

Mac VIP Vfoil 1025M 256 grams

Mac VIP Vfoil 1025CM 256 grams

 

I wonder if anyone can really feel these head weight differences.

 

Also, I have a set of Mac VIP Vfoil blades with "heavy" 130 gram Rifle shafts in them and they 

don't "feel" any heavier than my Ping S58s with Ping AWT shafts in them.

 

IMO, this is strictly a swing weight issue and has nothing to do with whether an iron head is

a blade or a big fat CB. 

 

[cwilk]

Design doesn’t matter so much as blade length. Shorter blade lengths are easier to manage. Don’t take my word for it, but Ping’s Chief Engineer:

 

 

[cwilk]

And Bladehunter is correct, he just didn’t explain it correctly. It’s not just total weight, but weight compared to the size of the head. Specifically, how far that weight is from the shaft. 

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, Conrad1953 said:

 

Blade, here are some sample 6 iron head weights:

 

Titleist 718MB 261.5 grams

Titleist 716AP1 261.8 grams

Titleist 716AP2 260.7 grams

Mizuno MP20 259.4 grams

Mizuno JPX921 Hot Metal 256 .5 grams

Ping G410 255.9 grams

Ping Blueprint 258.6 grams

Mac VIP Vfoil 1025M 256 grams

Mac VIP Vfoil 1025CM 256 grams

 

I wonder if anyone can really feel these head weight differences.

 

Also, I have a set of Mac VIP Vfoil blades with "heavy" 130 gram Rifle shafts in them and they 

don't "feel" any heavier than my Ping S58s with Ping AWT shafts in them.

 

IMO, this is strictly a swing weight issue and has nothing to do with whether an iron head is

a blade or a big fat CB. 

 

I believe I can.  In fact g410 to titleist mb is almost 6 grams.  That’s huge.  In my opinion.  Now couple that with a 130g shaft vs say 95g. And you have two entirely different animals.  Like goats vs giraffes.  Now I’m not saying that one is correct.  It depends entirely on the person and their needs.  I’m one who cannot get used to a light total weight . 
 

now of course. Plenty of cB irons weigh very close. My t100 set does . At least in the short irons.   For a lot of people. Swing weight isnt the only need to match up.  Total weight also matters.  
 

Edited June 1, 2021 by bladehunter

[taki27]

3 hours ago, RayGorman said:

 

Works with Drivers as well... I still struggle with these Volkswagens on a stick of today. I KNOW I could feel where my old steel shafted, tiny head metal driver of the 90's was at all times during the swing. It's one of the reasons many people can hit their 3 woods straighter with more control. Essentially the same weight, but in a more compact form. You can better 'feel' where the head is...

I’m with you on this.  To me, smaller driver heads seem to have more feel during the swing.

 

 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, cwilk said:

And Bladehunter is correct, he just didn’t explain it correctly. It’s not just total weight, but weight compared to the size of the head. Specifically, how far that weight is from the shaft. 

Right.  That’s the explanation for the difference in feel.   Which is why a short heel to toe iron has always worked better and made more sense to me.  

[Conrad1953]

10 hours ago, RogerinNewZealand said:

Featherweight Pings with 92 too 100 gram cs shafts,and c6 swing weight, my S58s as an example, i built each club up too d1, then d2, then d3.This was with lead tape.Then pulled, added tip weights.Then i went back too eg J33cb and dgs200 for more feel more weight lower flight. Also, if your big non aerodynamic person............your swing will snap those 85gram shafts....Conrad, for me, no way an S58 has the Feel of a j33cb or any Mizuno cb/blade eg mp 60 58 33 37 63, owned all these after the S58s.Or Apex Plus Hogan, or BH Grind Hogan........Just my opinion,cheers,Roger

 

I never said the S58s feel the same as a forged blade; I just said my S58s don't feel any

"heavier" than my Mac VIP 1025 blades; even with the blades having a heavier shaft. I've

never had either checked for swing weight  but the Pings are normally D1 and my guess;

based on feel, is the Macs are about the same.

 

I was surprised, frankly, when I got the Macs some years ago because I was suspecting

them, being a blade and with a 130 gram Rifle shaft, to feel much heavier than they

actually do. 

 

What some are saying here is that if you take a Titleist MB and a Titleist AP1 and put the

same shaft in them, at the same length, and with the same grip.....the MB will feel

heavier because of how the weight is distributed in the head and where the actual CG

of the club is located; even though the heads have an almost identical weight with the

AP1 head actually being .3 grams heavier than the MB head.

 

BTW, cheers back at ya Roger!

[klbcec]

On 6/1/2021 at 3:10 AM, erikro said:

Play me at a 12 handicap.  We'll play a Nassau - car car house.

[erikro]

35 minutes ago, klbcec said:

Play me at a 12 handicap.  We'll play a Nassau - car car house.

[klbcec]

8 minutes ago, erikro said:

 

Maybe learn some manners.

[Fairway14]

"Feeling the head (weight)" is mostly about grip technique-pressure. Specifically, the lighter the pressure one applies to the grip with his/her hands, the greater the sense of club head weight.

[erikro]

8 minutes ago, klbcec said:

 

Maybe learn some manners.

Did I ever address anything towards you? Who are you?