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Why is it easier to feel the head on a blade iron?


klbcec

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On 5/31/2021 at 9:35 PM, klbcec said:

I want to find a cavity back I like. But every time I try one, I feel like I lose the position of the head during the swing?  In other words, with a blade I can feel whether the head is open or closed throughout the swing, and use that feel to hit the intended shot. With cavity backs I lose that feel.

 

Is that related to the weight of the head, the swingweight, or something else?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Not sure what clubs you’re comparing, but if two club heads were the same gram weight, same shaft, grip, length, and flex there should not be any difference in “feel” during the swing. Impact, of course could have significant differences. I would just make sure you’re comparing apples to apples.

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On 6/1/2021 at 12:02 PM, cwilk said:

And Bladehunter is correct, he just didn’t explain it correctly. It’s not just total weight, but weight compared to the size of the head. Specifically, how far that weight is from the shaft. 

 

On 6/1/2021 at 1:20 PM, bladehunter said:

Right.  That’s the explanation for the difference in feel.   Which is why a short heel to toe iron has always worked better and made more sense to me.  

This is correct, and there's actually a third thing in play during the swing since the head is an offset load from the shaft - head MOI from shaft - which can't be measured by COG distance from the shaft alone, but needs to be measured in the CAD model or on a scale like they do with Maltby MPF numbers (they don't measure MOI around the hosel though).  Sorry to get overly technical again but there is a feel thing associated:

 

1) Head Weight

2) Head Torque (from shaft, head COG * Distance from shaft... like a swingweight taken at a different place)

3) Head MOI (from shaft, is resistance to rotate around the shaft... like an Auditor taken at a different place)

 

The heavier the head or the farther the mass is distributed away from the hosel, the more torque and rotational resistance to wrist rolling.  It's what Titleist is talking about for Vokey SM8 adding weight to the hosel to make it "easier to square".  Maybe it's true for some 🤔

 

For those that saw my thread below (long post on pg 2) it's just not something anyone measures like we do with swingweight or an Auditor for full clubs, but it's the same concept for the head itself in relation to the shaft.

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, hammergolf said:

Not sure what clubs you’re comparing, but if two club heads were the same gram weight, same shaft, grip, length, and flex there should not be any difference in “feel” during the swing. Impact, of course could have significant differences. I would just make sure you’re comparing apples to apples.

This is incorrect unless the weight in the two heads is distributed exactly the same. See the post after yours and the video from the Ping engineer on page 1. 

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3 hours ago, cwilk said:

This is incorrect unless the weight in the two heads is distributed exactly the same. See the post after yours and the video from the Ping engineer on page 1. 

 

The video is simply talking about the length/size of the head and not whether it is a blade or not. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Conrad1953 said:

 

The video is simply talking about the length/size of the head and not whether it is a blade or not. 

 

 

Correct. That doesn’t negate what I wrote. What point are you trying to make? 
 

@hammergolfsaid if the heads of two clubs weigh the same with same shaft/length/grip they would feel the same. That’s not correct because the weight of the heads can be distributed differently. That’s why the shorter head length is easier to control as described in the Ping video. 

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1 hour ago, cwilk said:

Correct. That doesn’t negate what I wrote. What point are you trying to make? 
 

@hammergolfsaid if the heads of two clubs weigh the same with same shaft/length/grip they would feel the same. That’s not correct because the weight of the heads can be distributed differently. That’s why the shorter head length is easier to control as described in the Ping video. 

 

The OP was the one who made the point of the head being a blade, which I thought was the

point of the thread.

 

 

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On 6/1/2021 at 7:02 AM, MtlJeff said:

OP - In many cases blades will come with heavier shafts (like DG s300) and also play to a slightly higher swingweight in my experience.

 

Depending on what GI or SGI you have demo'd, you can end up with 85g shafts and heads that already play on the lighter side.

 

From the shaft side, I've been considering lighter shafts in recent years. But, the 85-gram steel and some of the lighter graphite are just too light. If the lighter shaft is also senior / A-flex, the senior flex gives the most dispersion, both range and lateral. Hard to feel when it's at the top.

 

Because the dead weight of the club is less due to lighter shaft, the swingweight often is less. Two different clubfitters told me that if you request it, Callaway and Ping will add back a little head weight. This way, the lighter shafts swing weight at D1 or D2 rather than C8. That way, you can "feel the top" better. Beneficial for us seniors who grew up swinging Dynamic Golf S300.

 

Another factor is shaft balance and balance point. In pre-pandemic, I hit some 70- and 80-gram graphite shafts that felt solid, not feathery. Technology marches on.

 

Back to original questions: Because blades tend to have heavier shafts, stronger golfers may find they feel better.

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