Golfers who don't use a driver, what is your handicap and why?

[MattC555]

39 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Remember, most amateurs are not expecting to shoot 72, they are trying to break 75, 85, 95 etc...

This is why Bryson DeChambeau's message is so harmful to the game. He is trying to shoot 65 and for that goal increasing driver distance from 310 to 330 may be a worthwhile pursuit. Bryson (and the other Tour pros) have sensational short games , so the final bit of improvement they can do to scoring might come from a bit of extra tee box distance. 

Amateurs trying to break 80 or 90 or 100 don't have sensational short games. Amateurs don't have especially good accuracy for their long games.

So, extra tee box distance is way down the list of factors that may help amateurs lower their scoring averages to breaking 80, 90, 100 etc...

 

I was merely responding to your post that 230 yards off the tee is sufficient to shoot par on a 7000 yard course.  The amateurs you're talking about shouldn't be playing from 7000 yards.   If you're hitting 230 off the tee we are moving up a tee box. 

[MattC555]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

A friend of mine probably drove it about 230-ish when he was younger and our course is around 6,750 from the back tees where he used to play. He could shoot par on any given day but it wasn't every day by any means. Probably averaged a couple over. 

 

But he can get up and down from bunkers pretty often and makes tons of up and downs after missed greens in a decent spot (meaning fringe, 15 yards short in the fairway, good lie in the greenside rough, etc). He only needs to hit about 10 greens to shoot even par.

 

In addition to short game excellence, I've got to believe even par golf from 7,000 yards with a 230 yard driver distance means having like an LPGA Tour level fairway wood game. I've played with a few guys over the years who can hit a 5-wood straighter than I can hit a 7-iron. For them, a 230-yard drive then a 200-yard fairway wood is a legit GIR opportunity. If you've got that kind of proficiency with the long approaches it helps a lot when playing a course that's "too long". 

Yeah, you'll need to be wildly good with fairway metals and hybrids.  My uncle is in his 70s now and can still hang on at around 6200 yards or so.  His drive goes 160 yards, but it's accurate, he is amazing with his woods, and has a terrific short game.  Move him back to 6500 yards and he's toast.  Anything longer than 310 yards is guaranteed three shots to putt.  So, he plays up a tee, as you should. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by MattC555

[Fairway14]

11 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

 

I was merely responding to your post that 230 yards off the tee is sufficient to shoot par on a 7000 yard course.  The amateurs you're talking about shouldn't be playing from 7000 yards.   If you're hitting 230 off the tee we are moving up a tee box. 

 

Remember, up until the 90's lots of Tour pros were shooting under par scores while averaging 235  to 245 from the par 4 and par 5 tee boxes.

John Mahaffey won about a dozen Tour events including a Major and he averaged 235 yards from the tee during his prime.

[pup142]

4 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Remember, up until the 90's lots of Tour pros were shooting under par scores while averaging 235  to 245 from the par 4 and par 5 tee boxes.

John Mahaffey won about a dozen Tour events including a Major and he averaged 235 yards from the tee during his prime.

Good for you shooting par. Your an exception. In Florida very few golfers hitting 230 yard drives are playing from the tips on 7000 yard courses. I know of no one on my home course (Old Corkscrew Golf Club) in Fort Myers playing there.

[North Butte]

I don't know if it's evolved any in recent years but back when I used to travel to UK for golf vacations, the private clubs tended to have one set of tees for members to use. Didn't matter if they were a flat-belly driving it 280 or a 75-year-old double digit 'capper who couldn't carry it more than 170 with his driver. If it was a 6,600 yards Par 70 course then everyone competed weekly from 6,600 yards.

 

It was very discouraging to aging golfers. Especially on a course with lots of rough and elevation change, it just wasn't any fun for guys who played off 5 or 8 when they were 50 years old to find themselves at age 70 playing off a 16 hcp and unable to reach more than a handful of holes in regulation, ever. So at some point they just quit playing in comps (which for UK club golfers means missing out on the main reason for being a member of a club).

 

Even a decade or two ago here in USA at many private clubs it was looked down on to play forward tees unless you were 60 or 65 years old or whatever the club's stated "senior" age. If the "mens" tees were 6,500 yards and you a high handicap 50 year-old but who drove it 200 yards then you were supposed to just suck it up and shoot 95 or 100 or whatever it was. It would be "unfair" of such a golfer to move up to 6,000 yards and break 90 regularly. 

 

I really, really like the aspect of the latest USGA handicap system where your course handicap for each set of tees (more or less) accurately reflects the difference in scoring due to length. It took away the excuse at the club level of not wanting players to mix and match tees when playing low stakes games, daily dogfights and such. Of course plenty of clubs still don't go in for mixed tees but at least the handicap system encourages it now.

[MattC555]

17 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Remember, up until the 90's lots of Tour pros were shooting under par scores while averaging 235  to 245 from the par 4 and par 5 tee boxes.

John Mahaffey won about a dozen Tour events including a Major and he averaged 235 yards from the tee during his prime.

 

Tour average driving distance was around 260 yards as far back as 1980.  Courses were much shorter then and greens were slower too.  In the last 20 years alone Augusta National has added almost 500 yards - 6,985 yards to the current 7,475 yards. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by MattC555

[betarhoalphadelta]

Currently sitting at 24.3 and generally leave my driver and 4w in the bag.

 

Why? Because I can't trust that I'm going to apply the face of the club to the back of the ball. Never sure if I'm going to top it or otherwise make horrible contact, even more than worrying about dispersion down range. 

 

My iron distances (traditional lofts) are 3i-225, 4i-210, and 5i-195, so on most holes it doesn't hurt me too much to tee off with irons and I'm hitting distances off the tee similar to 2 of my 3 usual playing partners with 4i/5i--the 3rd is longer with driver, but erratic and his short game sucks, so I'm still giving him strokes. 

 

That said, my goal is to get the driver to the point where I feel comfortable with it. I may not be at a detriment to my playing partners without it, but I'll be much more likely to take strokes off my cap if can give myself shorter approaches on the longer holes. 

[Porriginio8]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

I don't know if it's evolved any in recent years but back when I used to travel to UK for golf vacations, the private clubs tended to have one set of tees for members to use. Didn't matter if they were a flat-belly driving it 280 or a 75-year-old double digit 'capper who couldn't carry it more than 170 with his driver. If it was a 6,600 yards Par 70 course then everyone competed weekly from 6,600 yards.

 

It was very discouraging to aging golfers. Especially on a course with lots of rough and elevation change, it just wasn't any fun for guys who played off 5 or 8 when they were 50 years old to find themselves at age 70 playing off a 16 hcp and unable to reach more than a handful of holes in regulation, ever. So at some point they just quit playing in comps (which for UK club golfers means missing out on the main reason for being a member of a club).

 

Even a decade or two ago here in USA at many private clubs it was looked down on to play forward tees unless you were 60 or 65 years old or whatever the club's stated "senior" age. If the "mens" tees were 6,500 yards and you a high handicap 50 year-old but who drove it 200 yards then you were supposed to just suck it up and shoot 95 or 100 or whatever it was. It would be "unfair" of such a golfer to move up to 6,000 yards and break 90 regularly. 

 

I really, really like the aspect of the latest USGA handicap system where your course handicap for each set of tees (more or less) accurately reflects the difference in scoring due to length. It took away the excuse at the club level of not wanting players to mix and match tees when playing low stakes games, daily dogfights and such. Of course plenty of clubs still don't go in for mixed tees but at least the handicap system encourages it now.

The UK has members/competition tees because then everyone would be playing the same course for the competition, of which is a regular thing in the UK as part of membership. Handicap was also based on competition rounds on those very tees.

How is it fair playing different tees in the same competition on the same day? Holes can be completely different from different tees, so not the same course being played by the enitre field. Players with higher handicaps get the extra shots because they need them to reach the holes or get back onto the hole to score. What is wrong with using the extra shots to compete? Why should a group of golfers have to give another group of golfers shots and allow them to play a shorter, different course in a competition that has to include both? Seems like one group is being punished for being dedicated to try and be better at the game.

Also in the UK there are big senior sections within the golf clubs that actually run their own senior competitions playing off the forward tees (usually with a seperate handicap for the senior competition but not at all clubs) and guess what, they do not allow non seniors play! Lol! Senior golf is very popular in the UK and they have more competions to take part in than someone like me because of my age being too low. 

[b.mattay]

I've never played with anyone below a 5 who didn't carry a driver! 
 

Also, as a personal rule of thumb, if you don't carry the ball 250+, you should hit driver on darn near every hole! 

[Pepperturbo]

It's discouraging to read posts that talk about hole yardages being not easy.  It's kinda negative approach given golf is NOT easy to begin with.  IMO we're supposed to rise to the challenges in golf, not look at yardages and feel overcome by difficulty or probability.

 

How about the missed fairway on a 400yd par 4, that requires a touchy punch out and then an artful mid-short iron to the green and only hope to save par.  Yet, it was a short hole, even for a single-digit golfer, and he bogies it.  How about a reasonable Par 5 at 545 yds?  Calls for a driver to find the fairway, hopeful 2nd wood or long iron to a layup position, 3rd wedge shot, except driver misses the fairway, calls for a marginal hit out of the rough, and much longer 3rd shot leaves a longer mid-iron that misses the green, then a wedge to the back of the green, overshooting the pin, only to 2 putt - Was that easy, not IMO.  Yet, it was a short Par 5 compared to the pared 640yd GIR a few weeks back, using Driver, 2 iron, and 7 iron and 2-putt.

Here's an easy thought; a 600yd Par 5 means 3, 200+yd shots down the middle, maybe a missed 3rd into the green, so a wedge shot and 2 putts, save par or worse case, bogie.  To that point, reaching green in regulation teaches zippo, just makes some people feel good.  Let's take a 450yd Par 4, driver off the tee 230yds, 220 leave, hybrid, wood, or 2 or 3 iron to the green, or short of the green, wedge to pin, putt for par.  If a person hits the ball decently, that should NOT be taxing. 

 

My point is when learning, short or long hole yardage doesn't matter.  It's about ball striking and distance control.  Most people talk about FIR and GIR, yet they are NOT even close to pros.  Most golfers are mid-high caps that need to learn self-control, ball-striking, directional control, recovery, and wedge shots with every club in the bag. 

 

Last thought, my low was 2, I am hovering at 4 and still not as good as I want to be.  I don't play golf looking to feel good about myself.  I play golf because it's not easy to progress.  If I were to play the yardages most guys my age play, I'd face approximately 5800yds.  As it is, I play that length but only use irons for practice and usually score around even Par.  If I played that length all the time, I'd be bored as there's no challenge.  I get my jollies TESTING myself, and can't imagine I am alone in that.  The more you test yourself, the more difficult yardages or holes won't bother you.  Golf is all about practice and preparation for the challenges this great game offers.

 

[joostin]

Not me (2 drivers, too fun).  But Stenson and Ariya Jutanugarn have demonstrated reaching the peak of the game without one!  Probably some playas on WRX can break 80 using a single iron.

[North Butte]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

It's discouraging to read posts that talk about hole yardages being not easy.  It's kinda negative approach given golf is NOT easy to begin with.  IMO we're supposed to rise to the challenges in golf, not look at yardages and feel overcome by difficulty or probability.

 

How about the missed fairway on a 400yd par 4, that requires a touchy punch out and then an artful mid-short iron to the green and only hope to save par.  Yet, it was a short hole, even for a single-digit golfer, and he bogies it.  How about a reasonable Par 5 at 545 yds?  Calls for a driver to find the fairway, hopeful 2nd wood or long iron to a layup position, 3rd wedge shot, except driver misses the fairway, calls for a marginal hit out of the rough, and much longer 3rd shot leaves a longer mid-iron that misses the green, then a wedge to the back of the green, overshooting the pin, only to 2 putt - Was that easy, not IMO.  Yet, it was a short Par 5 compared to the pared 640yd GIR a few weeks back, using Driver, 2 iron, and 7 iron and 2-putt.

 

 

Here's an easy thought; a 600yd Par 5 means 3, 200+yd shots down the middle, maybe a missed 3rd into the green, so a wedge shot and 2 putts, save par or worse case, bogie.  To that point, reaching green in regulation teaches zippo, just makes some people feel good.  Let's take a 450yd Par 4, driver off the tee 230yds, 220 leave, hybrid, wood, or 2 or 3 iron to the green, or short of the green, wedge to pin, putt for par.  If a person hits the ball decently, that should NOT be taxing. 

 

 

My point is when learning, short or long hole yardage doesn't matter.  It's about ball striking and distance control.  Most people talk about FIR and GIR, yet they are NOT even close to pros.  Most golfers are mid-high caps that need to learn self-control, ball-striking, directional control, recovery, and wedge shots with every club in the bag. 

 

 

 

Last thought, my low was 2, I am hovering at 4 and still not as good as I want to be.  I don't play golf looking to feel good about myself.  I play golf because it's not easy to progress.  If I were to play the yardages most guys my age play, I'd face approximately 5800yds.  As it is, I play that length but only use irons for practice and usually score around even Par.  If I played that length all the time, I'd be bored as there's no challenge.  I get my jollies TESTING myself, and can't imagine I am alone in that.  The more you test yourself, the more difficult yardages or holes won't bother you.  Golf is all about practice and preparation for the challenges this great game offers.

 

It’s one thing to say you’re happy shooting 75 or 78 from the longer tees rather than maybe 72 or 74 by moving up to 5,800. But don’t look down your nose at someone who might shoot 89 or 92 from 5,800 yards and Isn’t interested in “testing” their ability to break 100 from the big boy tees. 
 

Golf is just way more fun to most people if they at least have a chance to play the majority of holes with a driver and an iron or hybrid that can reach the green if we’ll struck. Rounds with a dozen or more advancement/layup shots because you’re playing too far back get tedious rather than fun. 

[JMB3]

My driver(s) have spent a lot of time in the backup bag the last two seasons.  I have added some speed, so going to a 3W or hybrid off the tee hasn't really hurt me.  I've been around 16 for two straight years.  While I'm fine leaving the driver at home, I'd much prefer to be able to use it. 

[phizzy30]

1 hour ago, joostin said:

Not me (2 drivers, too fun).  But Stenson and Ariya Jutanugarn have demonstrated reaching the peak of the game without one!  Probably some playas on WRX can break 80 using a single iron.

Those 2 have some major mental block going on with driver, but they are the outliers for sure.  The women's game isn't focused on distance so Ariya can get away with way more.  She outdrives most of the gals using her 3 metal, so it's all good.  I don't know how Henrik does it, but he's been doing it for years and has had a lot of success.  I guess 300 yards off the tee and straight still works on the PGA Tour.  🙂

[nostatic]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

It’s one thing to say you’re happy shooting 75 or 78 from the longer tees rather than maybe 72 or 74 by moving up to 5,800. But don’t look down your nose at someone who might shoot 89 or 92 from 5,800 yards and Isn’t interested in “testing” their ability to break 100 from the big boy tees. 
 

Golf is just way more fun to most people if they at least have a chance to play the majority of holes with a driver and an iron or hybrid that can reach the green if we’ll struck. Rounds with a dozen or more advancement/layup shots because you’re playing too far back get tedious rather than fun. 

Whenever the question, “playing from the tips?” gets asked I just laugh. Nope, I hit it about 230 off the tee. The concept of par is a thing and why different tee boxes exist. Fwiw some decades back I would shoot low 80’s and my driver was highly suspect. FIR and GIR sucked,  but I could pitch and chip really well, so there were enough up and down pars to keep the score reasonable. My goal was to get it in the same zip code in regulation - usually was good enough. 

 

A lot of the distance thing is just ego. Would I rather hit PW into a green than 7i? Maybe, or maybe I just want to hit whatever club I have in my hand well. Then again I don’t gamble, don’t belong to a club and barely keep score so evidently I’m an outlier 🙃

[dubbelbogey]

Ariya and Henrik can play and win with their 3woods and 2-irons because, well, they're damn good with those clubs. Probably the among the best in the world (says Capt Obvious 🤔)

 

I'd wager that the average mid to high handicap players flat out suck with those clubs compared to driver. Sure there are exceptions.

 

Even among many (most?) single digit players, a 3w or 2i are no cakewalk and many find driver just easier to hit from the tee box. (Not talking about hitting these off the deck - that's a totally different story.)

 

 

[mannyvizcaya]

I'm probably a conservative 4 to 6 right now. Sometimes I'll hit the course with irons only for fun!

I move up a tee box when I do. 

 

[Jmccas]

 

18 hours ago, b.mattay said:

I've never played with anyone below a 5 who didn't carry a driver! 
 

Also, as a personal rule of thumb, if you don't carry the ball 250+, you should hit driver on darn near every hole! 

 

Or quit golf.  No point playing if you can't hit 250+ off the tees. 

 

(some serious sarcasm implied)

[MattC555]

12 hours ago, North Butte said:

It’s one thing to say you’re happy shooting 75 or 78 from the longer tees rather than maybe 72 or 74 by moving up to 5,800. But don’t look down your nose at someone who might shoot 89 or 92 from 5,800 yards and Isn’t interested in “testing” their ability to break 100 from the big boy tees. 
 

Golf is just way more fun to most people if they at least have a chance to play the majority of holes with a driver and an iron or hybrid that can reach the green if we’ll struck. Rounds with a dozen or more advancement/layup shots because you’re playing too far back get tedious rather than fun. 

 

I agree with this.   Pace of play becomes an issue for some people playing further back then they ought to be.  My home course also has a few forced carries that would preclude shorter hitters from playing the tips.  One coincidentally is around 230 yards. 

Edited June 3, 2021 by MattC555

[Fairway14]

11 hours ago, dubbelbogey said:

Ariya and Henrik can play and win with their 3woods and 2-irons because, well, they're damn good with those clubs. Probably the among the best in the world (says Capt Obvious 🤔)

 

I'd wager that the average mid to high handicap players flat out suck with those clubs compared to driver. Sure there are exceptions.

 

Even among many (most?) single digit players, a 3w or 2i are no cakewalk and many find driver just easier to hit from the tee box. (Not talking about hitting these off the deck - that's a totally different story.)

 

 

 

3-wood from a tee is easier to swing and, or, strike straights with than a driver from the tee. The same is true for an 8-iron versus a 6-iron.

Players who don't find 3-wood to be straighter from the tee box are typically those who rarely if ever swing 3-wood from the tee box. Obviously, if one only tries a 3-wood from the tee box once every dozen rounds the club will appear awkward/uncomfortable compared to the driver he is accustomed to playing. The best way to get comfortable swinging 3-wood from the tee boxes is to leave driver at home for a round or two.

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Fairway14
spelling typo

[MtlJeff]

20 hours ago, b.mattay said:

I've never played with anyone below a 5 who didn't carry a driver! 
 

Also, as a personal rule of thumb, if you don't carry the ball 250+, you should hit driver on darn near every hole! 

 

Kind of my experience too. Can't think of anyone I know <5 who doesn't hit driver.

 

Most analysis says you should hit driver more not less

 

If you don't hit it well. Practice until you do

[North Butte]

28 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

3-wood from a tee is easier to swing and, or, strike straights with than a driver from the tee. The same is true for an 8-iron versus a 6-iron.

Players who don't fid 3-wood to be straighter from the tee box are typically those who rarely if ever swing 3-wood from the tee box. Obviously, if one only tries a 3-wood from the tee box once every dozen rounds the club will appear awkward/uncomfortable compared to the driver he is accustomed to playing. The best way to get comfortable swinging 3-wood from the tee boxes is to leave driver at home for a round or two.

 

I know Scott Fawcett has his own sometimes idiosyncratic take on golf strategy and club choice but he maintains that golfers do not hit the ball straighter with 3-wood rather than driver off the tee.

 

If I understand his theory correctly, he says the only advantage to be gained by hitting 3-wood rather than driver off the tee is if your 3-wood distance puts you in a wider part of the playing corridor while driver would put you in a narrower part of the playing corridor. 

 

His ideas are calibrated more toward very good to elite players, of course. But even with the weekend hacks I play with what he says matches what I observe. I can't see any ability among 5-15 handicappers to hit the ball straighter with 3-wood than driver, even if they hit 3-wood quite frequently. 

 

P.S. I do know guys who can keep the ball in play with a 3-iron or 4-iron better than with driver but that's only because an offline 190 yard shot doesn't go as far into trouble as an equally offline 250 yard one. But clubbing back 60 yards means hitting a hybrid into the green instead of short iron on a long Par 4, a costly strategy.

Edited June 3, 2021 by North Butte

[mgoblue83]

2 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Kind of my experience too. Can't think of anyone I know <5 who doesn't hit driver.

 

Most analysis says you should hit driver more not less

 

If you don't hit it well. Practice until you do

 

Exactly. This thread is an excuse for not putting in the time and effort to learn how to hit driver properly. There is absolutely zero advantage to not using driver for the majority of golfers on the majority of holes. 

[randytrevor]

Recently took driver out of the bag, and shoot anywhere between 80-100.

 

The main reason is that I need to playing fairly regularly (2x a week) to utilize the big stick, otherwise its a liability.  Also, the majority of the courses I play are pretty short/tight and I only end up pulling driver about 3 times a round anyway. So I'm done with it for now, maybe ill get a fitting next year and put in back in play then. Maybe by the end of the year Ill put one in play...I love trying and tinkering with new clubs. 

 

Ive also cut down my bag to 4-wood/2,3,4-hybrid/6,8,PW,SW/Putter (only like to hit full shots with the long clubs, but am comfortable adjusting my swing for the mid/short clubs). Saves on weight, making for a more enjoyable carry/walk, and I was mainly pulling those clubs throughout a round anyway. Scores remained the same, and there are occasions where I try and be more creative...which is fun for me. 

[North Butte]

6 minutes ago, randytrevor said:

Also, the majority of the courses I play are pretty short/tight and I only end up pulling driver about 3 times a round anyway.

Short and tight are two different issues, of course. If the course has doglegs or is set up deliberately to severely narrow down at about 250-300 off the tee then it takes driver right out of a longer hitter's hands. 

 

But if there's simply a narrow playing corridor along the entire length of a hole (a purely "tight" hole) that's not necessarily a reason to lay back with something other than driver. Because the longer second shot is going to be just as "tight" as the tee shot on most holes like that. There is definitely a cost to hitting a long approach shot through a tight corridor rather than a shorter one. 

 

I still think there's no reason at all that a 460cc 45" driver should hit wilder shots than a 200cc 43" fairway wood, given the same swing. My observation (admittedly limited to just people I play golf with) is the main risk to hitting driver is the temptation to swing approximately 800% harder (my conservative estimate😬) with driver than with any other club in the bag. Which of course is a mental game issue, not a club selection one.

[chipa]

I am somewhere around a 15 hc currently mostly plagued by getting off the tee well. My home (and only course) is short (6100 yards) and has some tight areas and doglegs where lost balls are the norm. Pete Dye was the gc architect and we have elevated greens w/big drop offs usually, which doesnt help my hc either.

 

I need something I can hit no more than 210 off the tee to stay out of trouble and something around the 260 range for the longer holes. The two par 5's are all but unreachable because they typically play into an easterly wind and one needs to hit it 280 more or less to have a decent shot into the green so I've decided to forego trying to get home in two on the par 5's and go to a 2 wood. It's a 98 Big Bertha 12 deg. w/ a 3 wood shaft and a tiny head, it looks to be no more than 150 cc from above, but has a deeper face. So far I haven't hit anything better even though from what I can tell I'm only 20 yards shorter than my driver. I'm using a 4 iron with a graphite shaft for the tight, short holes and doglegs. I'm going to try a matching 4 wood to try to get home in two on the par 5's, other than that it will probably stay in the bag.

 

[randytrevor]

16 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Short and tight are two different issues, of course. If the course has doglegs or is set up deliberately to severely narrow down at about 250-300 off the tee then it takes driver right out of a longer hitter's hands. 

 

But if there's simply a narrow playing corridor along the entire length of a hole (a purely "tight" hole) that's not necessarily a reason to lay back with something other than driver. Because the longer second shot is going to be just as "tight" as the tee shot on most holes like that. There is definitely a cost to hitting a long approach shot through a tight corridor rather than a shorter one. 

 

I still think there's no reason at all that a 460cc 45" driver should hit wilder shots than a 200cc 43" fairway wood, given the same swing. My observation (admittedly limited to just people I play golf with) is the main risk to hitting driver is the temptation to swing approximately 800% harder (my conservative estimate😬) with driver than with any other club in the bag. Which of course is a mental game issue, not a club selection one.

 

For me its definitely not the same swing. Driver in hand....I WANT TO HIT BOMBS!!!!!!! So I typically swing all out.

 

I'm just more confident in my 4-wood (mental as you mentioned), I carry it about 230-240. Which is long enough off the tee for pretty much every course I play.

 

If I were serious about shooting lower scores I would definitely carry a full set and work out issues with the Driver. But I'm comfortable where I'm at right now and a round of golf for me is more about just getting out, getting a few pars, and having a couple beers. I'm not looking to break a personal best, or play for money, or in comps....just have fun and with a 4-wood off the tee, the ball is playable more often than with a driver.   

[Fairway14]

I think the only way to know for certain whether 3-wood off the tee boxes produces lower scores is to leave driver at home for a few rounds of golf and see what happens. This is true for all skill levels, from high handicap amateur to Tour player.

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, Fairway14 said:

3-wood from a tee is easier to swing and, or, strike straights with than a driver from the tee. The same is true for an 8-iron versus a 6-iron.

Players who don't fid 3-wood to be straighter from the tee box are typically those who rarely if ever swing 3-wood from the tee box. Obviously, if one only tries a 3-wood from the tee box once every dozen rounds the club will appear awkward/uncomfortable compared to the driver he is accustomed to playing. The best way to get comfortable swinging 3-wood from the tee boxes is to leave driver at home for a round or two.

 

14 minutes ago, North Butte said:

I still think there's no reason at all that a 460cc 45" driver should hit wilder shots than a 200cc 43" fairway wood, given the same swing. My observation (admittedly limited to just people I play golf with) is the main risk to hitting driver is the temptation to swing approximately 800% harder (my conservative estimate😬) with driver than with any other club in the bag. Which of course is a mental game issue, not a club selection one.

 

Just spitballing here, but could the idea that a 3w is "safer" than a driver be a mental holdover from when drivers weren't 460cc with gigantic faces and built for forgiveness? 

 

A 3w built with the face size and forgiveness of a modern driver should be easier to hit, because the shaft is 2" shorter and easier to control, and should have better dispersion because of higher loft and shorter overall distance, i.e. a 2 degree offline strike at 240 yards will land tighter than a 2 degree offline strike at 275 yards... But if the 3w doesn't have a big face and tons of forgiveness, does that actually remain true?

 

What's the relative penalty for driver vs 3w if you're, say, hitting a 0.5" off center strike? What about a 1" off center strike? A 3w has a smaller face, so an off-center strike probably carries a larger penalty than an off-center strike on a driver, right?

 

[Fairway14]

2 minutes ago, randytrevor said:

 

For me its definitely not the same swing. Driver in hand....I WANT TO HIT BOMBS!!!!!!! So I typically swing all out.

 

I'm just more confident in my 4-wood (mental as you mentioned), I carry it about 230-240. Which is long enough off the tee for pretty much every course I play.

 

If I were serious about shooting lower scores I would definitely carry a full set and work out issues with the Driver. But I'm comfortable where I'm at right now and a round of golf for me is more about just getting out, getting a few pars, and having a couple beers. I'm not looking to break a personal best, or play for money, or in comps....just have fun and with a 4-wood off the tee, the ball is playable more often than with a driver.   

 

Remember that "all out driver swing" carries over to the rest of the clubs within the bag. A couple of tournaments where Tiger swung his best included the 2006 British Open at Hoylake and the 2007 PGA Championship at Southern Hills. For both those wins Tiger rarely swung driver, at Hoylake it was only one shot the entire week, and his swing tempo-rhythm for all clubs throughout the bag improved due to not having the counter productive "hit it hard" or "hit it far" instinct that holding a driver often times promotes.