Full Face Vokey... Full Face Irons?

[mvhoffman]

How long do you think it will be until we see a full face Vokey?  Seems like they are falling behind a bit.

 

What is stopping companies from doing this with irons as well?

Edited June 2, 2021 by mvhoffman

[ChrisLC40]

My money is on they won't release one. They don't need to. 

[kuch]

If you hit the ball that far off of the sweet spot with a Vokey wedge, having grooves across the entire face to still get spin is the least of your problems.

[uglande]

Full face grooves -- another pointless gimmick.

 

It's hard to innovate with wedges at this point, so the OEMs have to make stuff up. Cleveland and others are following TaylorMade's lead -- not because full-face grooves are an actual improvement, but because TaylorMade sold a bunch of them.

 

It's not like full-faced grooves cause any harm, but I don't see how they add any value. And I don' think the cosmetics will fit the eye of most Vokey players, who tend to be more traditional. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by uglande

[rp4golf]

8 minutes ago, kuch said:

If you hit the ball that far off of the sweet spot with a Vokey wedge, having grooves across the entire face to still get spin is the least of your problems.

Which explains why Vokeys only have grooves on the sweetspot of their wedges.

[rp4golf]

5 minutes ago, uglande said:

Full face grooves -- another pointless gimmick.

 

It's hard to innovate with wedges at this point, so the OEMs have to make stuff up. Cleveland and others are following TaylorMade's lead -- not because full-face grooves are an actual improvement, but because TaylorMade sold a bunch of them.

 

It's not like full-faced grooves cause any harm, but I don't see how they add any value. And I don' think the cosmetics will fit the eye of most Vokey players, who tend to be more traditional. 

So you're saying wedge design should have stopped when Roger Cleveland designed the original 588, and Mr. Vokey shouldn't have made a gimmick by copying it?

[cgasucks]

6 minutes ago, uglande said:

Full face grooves -- another pointless gimmick.

 

It's hard to innovate with wedges at this point, so the OEMs have to make stuff up. Cleveland and others are following TaylorMade's lead -- not because full-face grooves are an actual improvement, but because TaylorMade sold a bunch of them.

 

It's not like full-faced grooves cause any harm, but I don't see how they add any value. And I don' think the cosmetics will fit the eye of most Vokey players, who tend to be more traditional. 

 

Yeah.  Titleist is known to be a pure performance brand without any gimmicks.  They don't have speedslots in their irons, they didn't have  multi-colored crowns on their drivers when some OEMs followed TMs White driver fad, and certainly didn't fall into the square driver craze years ago.  Going with their mindset, I find it really doubtful that Titleist will have their own version of a High Toed wedge.

[rp4golf]

15 minutes ago, cgasucks said:

 

 Titleist is known to be a pure performance brand without any gimmicks.

 

[gioguy21]

32 minutes ago, uglande said:

Full face grooves -- another pointless gimmick.

 

It's hard to innovate with wedges at this point, so the OEMs have to make stuff up. Cleveland and others are following TaylorMade's lead -- not because full-face grooves are an actual improvement, but because TaylorMade sold a bunch of them.

 

It's not like full-faced grooves cause any harm, but I don't see how they add any value. And I don' think the cosmetics will fit the eye of most Vokey players, who tend to be more traditional. 

ok, pump the brakes a bit. 

it's not a gimmick if you open up the face on your wedges often - open up your lob wedge to about 2 o'clock and see how many grooves are in the path of the strike...

if you did this, you'd know that if you lay the face wide open, there are times when missing it a little higher on the toe and out towards the toe is not uncommon. the Phil wedge had grooves before TM did...well, technically Edel had wedges with the grooves all the way out (in the last 10 years or so that is -- 

they've made them to have a bit more meat at the topline toe, as well as the full face grooves to help with that or for people who hit different types of shot other than stock, aligned perpendicular to target. 

i love hearing 'traditional' discussion -- b/c that means they care more about the looks than performance...

 

[MattM97]

1 minute ago, gioguy21 said:

ok, pump the brakes a bit. 

it's not a gimmick if you open up the face on your wedges often - open up your lob wedge to about 2 o'clock and see how many grooves are in the path of the strike...

if you did this, you'd know that if you lay the face wide open, there are times when missing it a little higher on the toe and out towards the toe is not uncommon. the Phil wedge had grooves before TM did...well, technically Edel had wedges with the grooves all the way out (in the last 10 years or so that is -- 

they've made them to have a bit more meat at the topline toe, as well as the full face grooves to help with that or for people who hit different types of shot other than stock, aligned perpendicular to target. 

i love hearing 'traditional' discussion -- b/c that means they care more about the looks than performance...

 

 

I was going to mention this, open up the wedge and you'll notice toe strikes, even this happens to Phil who is you know a pretty decent wedge player. Maybe not that good since he needs full face grooves. 

[jmorrow020]

17 minutes ago, rp4golf said:

 

 

The weighting system that they have in this generation of clubs is far from a gimmick. Ball flight can change, it helps dial in swingweight without hotmelt or tungsten, can help with face angle at impact... far from gimicky

[north_east_pro]

I hope Vokey don't go down this route as it's not aesthetically pleasing in my eyes.

[Z1ggy16]

I open my vokey lob wedge all the time and I very often find ball sized grass marks way out near the toe where the grooves are starting to stop. 

 

On less than stellar hits in that same scenario, I may in fact miss grooves a little bit. I think that from the rough... Full face is no gimmick. My gripe though is it messes with me mentally on full swings. Something about seeing grooves like that makes the shape of the club look different and it then makes me swing different. Doesn't really make sense, but then again golf is a wacky game.

[cgasucks]

12 minutes ago, jmorrow020 said:

 

The weighting system that they have in this generation of clubs is far from a gimmick. Ball flight can change, it helps dial in swingweight without hotmelt or tungsten, can help with face angle at impact... far from gimicky

Edited June 2, 2021 by cgasucks

[gioguy21]

Just now, Z1ggy16 said:

I open my vokey lob wedge all the time and I very often find ball sized grass marks way out near the toe where the grooves are starting to stop. 

 

On less than stellar hits in that same scenario, I may in fact miss grooves a little bit. I think that from the rough... Full face is no gimmick. My gripe though is it messes with me mentally on full swings. Something about seeing grooves like that makes the shape of the club look different and it then makes me swing different. Doesn't really make sense, but then again golf is a wacky game.

i think that whole face grooves on a pitching wedge or gap wedge can be a bit much -- as those clubs are predominantly used on full shots. i think the full face grooves are a bit better on everything from say, 54-62. 

[rp4golf]

13 minutes ago, jmorrow020 said:

 

The weighting system that they have in this generation of clubs is far from a gimmick. Ball flight can change, it helps dial in swingweight without hotmelt or tungsten, can help with face angle at impact... far from gimicky

If it wasn't a gimmick, then how come they didn't continue it when the TS family of drivers and fairways and hybrids was released?

[gioguy21]

7 minutes ago, rp4golf said:

If it wasn't a gimmick, then how come they didn't continue it when the TS family of drivers and fairways and hybrids was released?

so you're tellin me that you're calling it a gimmick b/c it's not incorporated in the new line of drivers? technology and development changes -- and you're smart enough to know they have moveable weights in their new TSi line -- there's a distinct possibility that the first iteration was a 'dipping of the toes' in moveable weight from Titleist and they developed it further (leapfrog development, going from the 917 line to the TSi line)...

doesn't make it a gimmick -- so you're saying the proven, moveable CG weighting of the taylormade drivers is a gimmick b/c they no longer have it? 
 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by gioguy21

[cgasucks]

4 minutes ago, rp4golf said:

If it wasn't a gimmick, then how come they didn't continue it when the TS family of drivers and fairways and hybrids was released?

 

Explain this then...

[jmorrow020]

1 minute ago, rp4golf said:

If it wasn't a gimmick, then how come they didn't continue it when the TS family of drivers and fairways and hybrids was released?

 

I hope you reach your 75 posts soon so you can sell whatever it is you are looking to sell. My suggestion would be to pay the $10 or whatever it is.

[Ivyguy]

3 minutes ago, rp4golf said:

If it wasn't a gimmick, then how come they didn't continue it when the TS family of drivers and fairways and hybrids was released?

Because the structures needed to house the weights cost weight. Without them they were able to move weight more freely in the head. 
 

Same thing with hosel adapters on drivers and fairway metals. Ping did a ton of work to save every gram possible when designing theirs. 

[rp4golf]

1 minute ago, cgasucks said:

 

Explain this then...

So, they're copying PING now?
What happened to " pure performance brand without any gimmicks"?

[cgasucks]

2 minutes ago, rp4golf said:

So, they're copying PING now?
What happened to " pure performance brand without any gimmicks"?

 

It's not a gimmick.  Adjustable weights has been around in drivers since the R7 came out in 2004.  Adjustable hosels became the norm ever since the R9 came out in 2009.  

 

Man...did you start playing golf recently??

Edited June 2, 2021 by cgasucks

[rp4golf]

4 minutes ago, gioguy21 said:

so you're tellin me that you're calling it a gimmick b/c it's not incorporated in the new line of drivers? technology and development changes -- and you're smart enough to know they have moveable weights in their new TSi line -- there's a distinct possibility that the first iteration was a 'dipping of the toes' in moveable weight from Titleist and they developed it further (leapfrog development, going from the 917 line to the TSi line)...

doesn't make it a gimmick -- so you're saying the proven, moveable CG weighting of the taylormade drivers is a gimmick b/c they no longer have it? 

dont you have a LAB putter? 

No, I'm just taking offense to people calling stuff gimmicks - like it's an alien wedge or something of that sort - and acting like Titleist/Vokey is not beyond borrowing tech and designs from other manufacturers.
That's all. 😉

[rp4golf]

2 minutes ago, cgasucks said:

Man...did you start playing golf recently??

I was kind of wondering that about you from your initial comment in this thread. 🤣

[lefthack]

Can someone smarter than me explain how these full face wedges confirm to 2010 grove standards while my KZG blades still don't? I thought it had to do with the surface area of the grooves? 

[timbo08]

I could see it happening IF Vokey starts losing market share to other wedge companies.  Outside of that, I don't think so or think one would be released.  Maybe if Phil was under contract they would do it since Titleist has a tendency to release special editions of clubs for players that win Majors with them and whatnot.  

 

However, with no one gaming their stuff right now that needs a high toe I don't see it happening.  Generally most of the changes to Wedges are based on existing testing.  Granted it could be just marketing but every grind on the Vokey site has a write up with what tour players inspired the grind.  I don't see AD or Vokey making high toes for anyone right now or ever have for that matter.  

 

Just my $.02, who knows, might pop up in two weeks on Vokey.com as a Wedgeworks release for the US Open and I can eat crow?  

[rp4golf]

On 6/2/2021 at 7:27 AM, jmorrow020 said:

 

I hope you reach your 75 posts soon so you can sell whatever it is you are looking to sell. My suggestion would be to pay the $10 or whatever it is.

🤣 Not even sure what that's supposed to mean, but no, I have nothing to sell.
And I donate any clubs we no longer use to the FirstTee or the local high school.

But, speaking of selling, being as you've got 20 clubs in your bag it appears you have a few things to sell.

Edited June 5, 2021 by rp4golf

[Flip4000]

I know vokeys don't have full face grooves, but they have had milling on the toe of the wedges for several seasons. Not as crazy as grooves, but they have taken note that there is a need for spin retention on shots towards the toe when opening up the face. Maybe they determined that's enough for most people? 

[Flip4000]

30 minutes ago, timbo08 said:

I could see it happening IF Vokey starts losing market share to other wedge companies.  Outside of that, I don't think so or think one would be released.  Maybe if Phil was under contract they would do it since Titleist has a tendency to release special editions of clubs for players that win Majors with them and whatnot.  

 

However, with no one gaming their stuff right now that needs a high toe I don't see it happening.  Generally most of the changes to Wedges are based on existing testing.  Granted it could be just marketing but every grind on the Vokey site has a write up with what tour players inspired the grind.  I don't see AD or Vokey making high toes for anyone right now or ever have for that matter.  

 

Just my $.02, who knows, might pop up in two weeks on Vokey.com as a Wedgeworks release for the US Open and I can eat crow?  

 

I think the big reason people choose vokeys is due to the sole grind options. I think they have the best variety so it's easy to find something that works well for your conditions. To me I find that having the correct bounce/ sole grind is still the biggest factor for wedges.

 

I could see it long term as a wedge works option, but probably not in their main line unless tour players started asking for full faced wedges. 

[Z1ggy16]

1 hour ago, gioguy21 said:

i think that whole face grooves on a pitching wedge or gap wedge can be a bit much -- as those clubs are predominantly used on full shots. i think the full face grooves are a bit better on everything from say, 54-62. 

Yeah I've still got a full face cbx wedge somewhere that I used for a while and liked in bunkers and around the green a lot. Maybe it was the way the neck was shaped or the lie angle but I really hated hitting it any further than like 30-40 yards. Full swing 80-90 yard from thick rough was a mental night mare for me... Not sure why but I ended up going back to regular groove vokey.