Favorite Epoxy?

[AndLun]

What is everyone's favorite epoxy?

 

I recently used Moxie Sports epoxy from PGATSS with very poor results. Looking for the best on the re-rebuild! I mixed multiple batches, 2 irons at a time. The epoxy is "randomly" failing - really only 1 club per batch, at times ranging from immediately after 48 hour cure, to weeks later.

 

Club details:

Taylormade CB '14 heads, Nippon Modus 105 shafts, collared ferrules.

 

Prep steps:

-Removed all old epoxy

-Sanded steel shaft tip with 80 grit

-Sanded inside of hosel with GOLFWORKS 50 grit mandrel sanding sleeve

-Cleaned with acetone to ensure all epoxy was removed

-Rinsed with water to ensure acetone was gone - maybe unnecessary?

-Wiped down shaft tips with rubbing alcohol prior to install

 

 

[dlow206]

What's the temp of the room where you are letting the clubs cure? Are you using an epoxy gun or is it the pour bottle type?

 

Golfworks max strength 24 hour epoxy has worked well for me, but I recently upgraded to 3M DP460. 

[Stuart_G]

Not going to be much help since they went out of business, but my favorite was always the Golfsmith 24 hr (black) shafting epoxy.  Wish I knew where they sourced it from.

 

Do you keep the left over epoxy around to check how well it cures?

When it fails, where does most of the dried epoxy end up, on the shaft or in the hosel?

 

Prep issues are more common than actual failure of the epoxy.

 

11 minutes ago, AndLun said:

-Rinsed with water to ensure acetone was gone - maybe unnecessary?

 

 

Not only unnecessary but potentially harmful.   Water can take a lot longer to dry, wiping down isn't going to be enough to get rid of all the moisture.   All it really takes is a little time for the acetone to evaporate - a torch will speed up the process but not recommended 🙂.

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Stuart_G

[dscup]

I'm a fan of JB Weld steel reinforced epoxy - haven't had any issues with it since I started buying it a few years ago.

[AndLun]

@dlow206 - Room was ~65 degrees with 40% humidity. 2 bottles, no gun - fairly confident I was mixing equal amounts but obviously tough to say for sure without measuring. Thank you for your recommendations!

[TallGuy90]

I like the Brampton rapid cure. Plenty strong and comes in cartridges. Not ideal for doing lots but I haven’t built a set in a while. I tried Golfworks long cure but never had success with weighing it out or the syringes 

[TallGuy90]

1 minute ago, dscup said:

I'm a fan of JB Weld steel reinforced epoxy - haven't had any issues with it since I started buying it a few years ago.

It works but I don’t like the grey hardening 

[Stuart_G]

18 minutes ago, AndLun said:

Club details:

Taylormade CB '14 heads, Nippon Modus 105 shafts, collared ferrules.

 

Prep steps:

-Sanded steel shaft tip with 80 grit

 

One more thing.  TM irons typically have a very short bore depth.  Barely 1" - so they are a bit less forgiving when it comes to prep and gluing issues.

 

When you prepped the tip, did you make sure all the chrome was removed?

 

 

 

[dlow206]

Also, which Moxie epoxy did you use? I look at the PGASS site and there is a 5 minute and 30 minute. 

[taki27]

39 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

Not going to be much help since they went out of business, but my favorite was always the Golfsmith 24 hr (black) shafting epoxy.  Wish I knew where they sourced it from.

 

Do you keep the left over epoxy around to check how well it cures?

When it fails, where does most of the dried epoxy end up, on the shaft or in the hosel?

 

Prep issues are more common than actual failure of the epoxy.

 

 

Not only unnecessary but potentially harmful.   Water can take a lot longer to dry, wiping down isn't going to be enough to get rid of all the moisture.   All it really takes is a little time for the acetone to evaporate - a torch will speed up the process but not recommended 🙂.

 

 

 

I’m with Stuart.  Acetone evaporates very quickly.  Never, ever use water.  You said the cure temp was mid 60s.  Mid 60s is probably OK, but most people like to have clubs cure at a higher temp.  People who use basements tend to have more issues.  I have a small enclosed boiler area that gets warm so I usually leave my clubs there to set.  I use Golfworks 24 hour epoxy exclusively.

Edited June 2, 2021 by taki27

[AndLun]

45 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

One more thing.  TM irons typically have a very short bore depth.  Barely 1" - so they are a bit less forgiving when it comes to prep and gluing issues.

 

When you prepped the tip, did you make sure all the chrome was removed?

 

 

 

 

I did notice the bore depth was very short - with brass tip weights, about 7/8"

 

Yes, all chrome was removed. The shafts were pulled from my P790s so they just needed the epoxy removed

[AndLun]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

Not going to be much help since they went out of business, but my favorite was always the Golfsmith 24 hr (black) shafting epoxy.  Wish I knew where they sourced it from.

 

Do you keep the left over epoxy around to check how well it cures?

When it fails, where does most of the dried epoxy end up, on the shaft or in the hosel?

 

Prep issues are more common than actual failure of the epoxy.

 

 

Not only unnecessary but potentially harmful.   Water can take a lot longer to dry, wiping down isn't going to be enough to get rid of all the moisture.   All it really takes is a little time for the acetone to evaporate - a torch will speed up the process but not recommended 🙂.

 

 

 

 

I remember using the black 24 hour golfsmith epoxy a while back - never had any issues!

 

I did keep the left over epoxy - It appeared strong and well cured.

 

The failures have most of the epoxy in the hosel - Shaft tips are almost clean.

 

Thank you for the input on water usage - won't be doing that again! 

[AndLun]

44 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Also, which Moxie epoxy did you use? I look at the PGASS site and there is a 5 minute and 30 minute. 

 

30 minute and waited at least 48 hours before using the clubs.

[Nessism]

This "best practices" guide was pulled from a thread about reshafting newer Ping irons but most of what's mentioned applies for all irons.

 

 

My recommendations for anyone reshafting newer Ping's (and any iron in truth):

 

- Use a torch on the hosel to break down the epoxy and as soon as the head separates use either a wire brush tool or scraper of some kind to remove epoxy from the hosel (and shaft as need be) while the epoxy is still hot.

 

- Clean the hosel with MEK or acetone

 

- Using a clean (new) sanding sleeve on a rotary tool w/ mandrel abrade the hosel ID until you have a bright shinny metal surface

 

- Clean again with MEK/acetone

 

- Similarly prep your shafts and degrease

 

- Use QUALTY epoxy/acrylic adhesive that has a minimum of 3000 psi lap shear strength when bonding stainless steel.  My favorite is 3M DP8410NS but DP460 and DP420 are good as well.

 

- During assembly use proper Ping collared ferrules.  Golfworks sells some good ones.  The 410 ferrules in particular are excellent.

 

- Use plenty of adhesive during assembly, coating both the shaft and hosel ID

 

- For the strongest bond wait until the adhesive kicks off and gets firm then apply heat: 120F @90 mins or 140F @ 60 mins.  This will increase the bond strength over a room temp. cure.

 

Last step is to take your clubs to the course and hit the $hit out of them.  Nothing but birdies and eagles allowed.  This part on you of course.

[AndLun]

32 minutes ago, taki27 said:

I’m with Stuart.  Acetone evaporates very quickly.  Never, ever use water.  You said the cure temp was mid 60s.  Mid 60s is probably OK, but most people like to have clubs cure at a higher temp.  People who use basements tend to have more issues.  I have a small enclosed boiler area that gets warm so I usually leave my clubs there to set.  I use Golfworks 24 hour epoxy exclusively.

 

Left the clubs to cure in my basement boiler area but it was too warm upstairs for the boiler to kick on!

 

I can't seem to find the Golfworks 24 hour. Is it the Golfworks "High-Strength" w/ 24 hour cure time?

[dlow206]

22 minutes ago, Nessism said:

This "best practices" guide was pulled from a thread about reshafting newer Ping irons but most of what's mentioned applies for all irons.

 

 

My recommendations for anyone reshafting newer Ping's (and any iron in truth):

 

- Use a torch on the hosel to break down the epoxy and as soon as the head separates use either a wire brush tool or scraper of some kind to remove epoxy from the hosel (and shaft as need be) while the epoxy is still hot.

 

- Clean the hosel with MEK or acetone

 

- Using a clean (new) sanding sleeve on a rotary tool w/ mandrel abrade the hosel ID until you have a bright shinny metal surface

 

- Clean again with MEK/acetone

 

- Similarly prep your shafts and degrease

 

- Use QUALTY epoxy/acrylic adhesive that has a minimum of 3000 psi lap shear strength when bonding stainless steel.  My favorite is 3M DP8410NS but DP460 and DP420 are good as well.

 

- During assembly use proper Ping collared ferrules.  Golfworks sells some good ones.  The 410 ferrules in particular are excellent.

 

- Use plenty of adhesive during assembly, coating both the shaft and hosel ID

 

- For the strongest bond wait until the adhesive kicks off and gets firm then apply heat: 120F @90 mins or 140F @ 60 mins.  This will increase the bond strength over a room temp. cure.

 

Last step is to take your clubs to the course and hit the $hit out of them.  Nothing but birdies and eagles allowed.  This part on you of course.

 

I would add to this, buy an epoxy gun, and the right epoxy gun. For example, 3M gun for 3M epoxy. 

[mvhoffman]

I actually use Brampton's 24hr for mounting ski bindings because of how watery it is.  It soaks into the soft cores great.

 

For golf.... JB Weld

[liveagua]

2 hours ago, AndLun said:

What is everyone's favorite epoxy?

 

I recently used Moxie Sports epoxy from PGATSS with very poor results. Looking for the best on the re-rebuild! I mixed multiple batches, 2 irons at a time. The epoxy is "randomly" failing - really only 1 club per batch, at times ranging from immediately after 48 hour cure, to weeks later.

 

Club details:

Taylormade CB '14 heads, Nippon Modus 105 shafts, collared ferrules.

 

Prep steps:

-Removed all old epoxy

-Sanded steel shaft tip with 80 grit

-Sanded inside of hosel with GOLFWORKS 50 grit mandrel sanding sleeve

-Cleaned with acetone to ensure all epoxy was removed

-Rinsed with water to ensure acetone was gone - maybe unnecessary?

-Wiped down shaft tips with rubbing alcohol prior to install

 

 

3m DP 810 and it isn't close. 

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, Nessism said:

This "best practices" guide was pulled from a thread about reshafting newer Ping irons but most of what's mentioned applies for all irons.

 

 

My recommendations for anyone reshafting newer Ping's (and any iron in truth):

 

- Use a torch on the hosel to break down the epoxy and as soon as the head separates use either a wire brush tool or scraper of some kind to remove epoxy from the hosel (and shaft as need be) while the epoxy is still hot.

 

- Clean the hosel with MEK or acetone

 

- Using a clean (new) sanding sleeve on a rotary tool w/ mandrel abrade the hosel ID until you have a bright shinny metal surface

 

- Clean again with MEK/acetone

 

- Similarly prep your shafts and degrease

 

- Use QUALTY epoxy/acrylic adhesive that has a minimum of 3000 psi lap shear strength when bonding stainless steel.  My favorite is 3M DP8410NS but DP460 and DP420 are good as well.

 

- During assembly use proper Ping collared ferrules.  Golfworks sells some good ones.  The 410 ferrules in particular are excellent.

 

- Use plenty of adhesive during assembly, coating both the shaft and hosel ID

 

- For the strongest bond wait until the adhesive kicks off and gets firm then apply heat: 120F @90 mins or 140F @ 60 mins.  This will increase the bond strength over a room temp. cure.

 

Last step is to take your clubs to the course and hit the $hit out of them.  Nothing but birdies and eagles allowed.  This part on you of course.

 

The 8410 looks pretty unique, a 10:1 ratio with glass beads inside. What about it makes it your favorite?

[Stuart_G]

16 hours ago, AndLun said:

 

I remember using the black 24 hour golfsmith epoxy a while back - never had any issues!

 

I did keep the left over epoxy - It appeared strong and well cured.

 

The failures have most of the epoxy in the hosel - Shaft tips are almost clean.

 

Thank you for the input on water usage - won't be doing that again! 

 

That's a pretty good indication that the failure was the bond between the epoxy and the shaft and not an issue with the epoxy itself.  Whether the water was an issue - due to moisture or adding some type of new contamination after being cleaned with the acetone (from water or wiping cloth) - or due to some other aspect of the prep being incomplete - it's impossible for me to say other than the grit used should have left plenty of roughness for the epoxy to adhere to.

 

Just remember that it's safest not to touch the tip with anything (water, cloth to wipe down, or even fingers) after cleaning.

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Stuart_G

[lefthack]

I've only been using the Golfsmith Tour Set 90 min set time that I let sit overnight. Only a couple steel shaft failures.

Edited June 2, 2021 by lefthack

[Doaner84]

brampton 24 hour

[Nessism]

2 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 

The 8410 looks pretty unique, a 10:1 ratio with glass beads inside. What about it makes it your favorite?

 

It's an acrylic adhesive and is very tenacious so it sticks to the metal really well.  It's basically a better version of DP810 since it withstands high temps better.  It's a "NS" product which stands for No Sag.  It sticks to the hosel wall and doesn't run into the bottom of the hosel like runny adhesives such as Bramptons 20-20.  Lap shear values are excellent and it sticks well to stainless steel.  

[Colej]

Golfworks high impact epoxy. Prep work is key with any job. Everything needs to be clean and abraded properly. 
 

i just took in a Rework job on a new Tommy Armour EVO driver. Failure for the bonded shaft into the hosel. At first glance you’d think the epoxy failed until you measure the hosel bore (.350) and the shaft diameter (.335). No shim was used that could see. So failure was imminent. 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Colej

[Valtiel]

37 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

It's an acrylic adhesive and is very tenacious so it sticks to the metal really well.  It's basically a better version of DP810 since it withstands high temps better.  It's a "NS" product which stands for No Sag.  It sticks to the hosel wall and doesn't run into the bottom of the hosel like runny adhesives such as Bramptons 20-20.  Lap shear values are excellent and it sticks well to stainless steel.  

Interesting, I like the "No sag" aspect, especially for heat curing. 

I assume you favor the 8410 over the 8405 for the longer work time?

[Nessism]

5 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Interesting, I like the "No sag" aspect, especially for heat curing. 

I assume you favor the 8410 over the 8405 for the longer work time?

 

Yes, the 8410 is slower; 10 min pot life vs. 5 mins.   From a specs perspective the 8405 is a little better, but not enough to really matter.  Both are great adhesives.

[Stuart_G]

8 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

It's an acrylic adhesive and is very tenacious so it sticks to the metal really well.  It's basically a better version of DP810 since it withstands high temps better.  It's a "NS" product which stands for No Sag.  It sticks to the hosel wall and doesn't run into the bottom of the hosel like runny adhesives such as Bramptons 20-20.  Lap shear values are excellent and it sticks well to stainless steel.  

 

Looks almost too temperature resistant for golf usage (IMO).  I couldn't find the Tg in the data sheet but what was there made me think that I wouldn't want to have to pull a graphite shaft if someone used that.   100% resistance to 300*F (149*C) ??

Edited June 3, 2021 by Stuart_G

[SBH9458]

Great thread!  Lessons learned are right on with what I’ve seen in my own builds...  I’ve had solid success with GolfWorks Tour Set epoxy. 

[denkea]

Normally would use DP810 for myself on most builds.  But I use this 

 

https://www.golfworks.com/the-golfworks-maximum-strength-tour-set-plus-epoxy/p/vb1002/

 

for any builds for customers AND any irons that have a short insertion depth.  Like the Ping G710s.  1 1/64" insert depth.  Ugh!!!

 

Anyway the epoxy above uses a 2:1 mix and you need the appropriate dispenser.

 

It is an exceptionally good adhesive.  Takes a bit more heat to loosen the bond than most but well worth it.  

[Nessism]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Looks almost too temperature resistant for golf usage (IMO).  I couldn't find the Tg in the data sheet but what was there made me think that I wouldn't want to have to pull a graphite shaft if someone used that.   100% resistance to 300*F (149*C) ??

 

Stuart, I think you are misinterpreting the data sheet.  The test you mention is where they heat soak the samples for 1000 hours at that temp, but then the sample is allowed to come back to room temperature before testing, at which time they note no degradation in strength.

 

This data shows lap shear at 180F which is a better indicator.  The strength is much lower than at room temp.  It may even seem too low but compared to DP420 which is very commonly used for golf clubs the 8405/8410 products are okay. 

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1015904O/3m-industrial-adhesives-and-tapes.pdf

 

General note: when you use a product like these from 3M you get a wealth of technical data.  They sell a LOT of different adhesives, both epoxy type and acrylic adhesives, and because there is data readily available you can pick something that suits your needs.  Most "golf" epoxy has minimal or no data what so ever.  It's safe to assume that it's good enough, but given the choice I'd like to see some real data.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Nessism