Favorite Epoxy?

[kwcsports]

I'm using Brampton Pro-Fix Long Cure now, have used Golfsmith, Golfworks, 3M over the last 35 years. I have done thousands of clubs with zero failures. It's all about prep IMO. Any of the above epoxies will work if used properly. 

[north_east_pro]

I've always used Bostik Evo-Stik Express (90 second bond) and have nothing but positive words for the product. 

[Stuart_G]

27 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

Stuart, I think you are misinterpreting the data sheet.  The test you mention is where they heat soak the samples for 1000 hours at that temp, but then the sample is allowed to come back to room temperature before testing, at which time they note no degradation in strength.

 

This data shows lap shear at 180F which is a better indicator.  The strength is much lower than at room temp.  It may even seem too low but compared to DP420 which is very commonly used for golf clubs the 8405/8410 products are okay. 

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1015904O/3m-industrial-adhesives-and-tapes.pdf

 

General note: when you use a product like these from 3M you get a wealth of technical data.  They sell a LOT of different adhesives, both epoxy type and acrylic adhesives, and because there is data readily available you can pick something that suits your needs.  Most "golf" epoxy has minimal or no data what so ever.  It's safe to assume that it's good enough, but given the choice I'd like to see some real data.

 

Then yes, I did misinterpret the data.

 

But that still leaves a question of what the Tg is (or why it's not in the data sheet)?

 

Although I personally wouldn't have any problems with a Tg near or slightly above that 180*F.   I certainly don't plan to ever play with the temp that high 🙂

[Nessism]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Then yes, I did misinterpret the data.

 

But that still leaves a question of what the Tg is (or why it's not in the data sheet)?

 

Although I personally wouldn't have any problems with a Tg near or slightly above that 180*F.   I certainly don't plan to ever play with the temp that high 🙂

 

I've never seen the Tg spec listed in any 3M adhesive data sheet.

 

In terms of what temp it would take to pull a shaft, DP8410's strength is okay at 180F but not particularly high.  I'm positive that pulling a head won't be much different than with other good adhesives.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Nessism

[GLF4EVR]

19 hours ago, AndLun said:

 

Left the clubs to cure in my basement boiler area but it was too warm upstairs for the boiler to kick on!

 

I can't seem to find the Golfworks 24 hour. Is it the Golfworks "High-Strength" w/ 24 hour cure time?

The GolfWorks EZ Pour High Strength Epoxy

Yep...that is the 24 hour cure stuff.  I have used this for the last 15 years without any problem.  I keep the bottles in the house, in a cabinet.  It lasts a long time if stored properly.

 

Just like others have said, you need to have the epoxy cure in a warm, dry place.  I tend to let all of mine sit for 48 hours before I ever touch them, (SARS...severe anal retentive syndrome).  So actually it might have been best to let your clubs cure upstairs.  During the winter months I have a wood burner going in the basement.  I will have clubs curing about 30 feet away from the stove.....again, SARS.

 

[drumdude96]

20 hours ago, mvhoffman said:

I actually use Brampton's 24hr for mounting ski bindings because of how watery it is.  It soaks into the soft cores great.

 

For golf.... JB Weld

I hope you don't ever plan on pulling any shafts installed with JB Weld, unless you're just using their epoxy and not the actual JB Weld that is gray. That gray stuff isn't coming apart.

[mvhoffman]

4 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

I hope you don't ever plan on pulling any shafts installed with JB Weld, unless you're just using their epoxy and not the actual JB Weld that is gray. That gray stuff isn't coming apart.

I've used both actually.  With irons, you can use the traditional high test JB weld, it just takes more concentrated heat to pull.  Regular epoxy on graphite anything

[mogc60]

6 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

I hope you don't ever plan on pulling any shafts installed with JB Weld, unless you're just using their epoxy and not the actual JB Weld that is gray. That gray stuff isn't coming apart.

I pull shafts using the gray all the time. Never had an issue with graphite shafts using a shaft puller. My current driver shaft I’ve pulled 6 times using the gray epoxy. And used it for 5 years. Pulled my set of Catalyst 100 graphite shafts twice and no issues. Best part of that epoxy is I don’t have to preset my thermostat in my house, create mood lighting, close the curtains, whisper sweet nothings, spend $100 on dinner or bring roses. I just mix and set the shaft and can hit it in 30 minutes. Never had a failure either. 

Edited June 3, 2021 by mogc60

[drumdude96]

4 hours ago, mogc60 said:

I pull shafts using the gray all the time. Never had an issue with graphite shafts using a shaft puller. My current driver shaft I’ve pulled 6 times using the gray epoxy. And used it for 5 years. Pulled my set of Catalyst 100 graphite shafts twice and no issues. Best part of that epoxy is I don’t have to preset my thermostat in my house, create mood lighting, close the curtains, whisper sweet nothings, spend $100 on dinner or bring roses. I just mix and set the shaft and can hit it in 30 minutes. Never had a failure either. 

Dang.  I never would have thought the original would break down with low enough heat not to destroy your shafts.  I use either Golfworks high strength 24 hour epoxy or Brampton's 24 hour.  My secret is my awesome little heat-curing "oven" that I built.  It's time and temperature controlled so I set it and forget it.  I can cure the 24-hour epoxy in an hour and a half.  I'll post some pics in a sec...

[drumdude96]

Okay boys. Just build yourselves one of these babies and never worry about your epoxy not being at the proper temperature again.  The heat source is a tiny space heater I found at Menard's for $10.  The Ink Bird temperature regulator I got on Amazon for about $30ish.  The timer outlet was from Amazon for about $13.  I can set this thing to whatever temp I want and have it shut off automatically after a certain amount of time.  The temp regulator cycles the heater on and off and keeps the curing temp within a preset window.  There is a temp probe mounted inside the "oven" so that the regulator knows what the inside temperature is.  It's a sweet setup, it's cheap, and yes I know, I'm a friggin' genius. Lol.  Some details about the actual box; it's built out of 1" thick foam board and held together with HVAC foil tape.  The bottom of the front panel is hinged, and you can see that I simply used rubber bands to hold the door shut.  Simple, elegant, and effective.  Works like a dream.  Should I buy stock in Ink Bird now?  Lol.  You could build something like this out of plywood, or MDF if you wanted.  I chose the foam board because it's easy to cut and it won't accidentally scratch my graphite shafts.  As you can see, I've got a set of irons curing right now with some VS Proto 100X shafts.  If you guys have any questions, feel free to ask.  Oh and OP, sorry to derail your thread, but this is certainly related to the topic, obviously. 

[liveagua]

On 6/3/2021 at 4:18 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

Looks almost too temperature resistant for golf usage (IMO).  I couldn't find the Tg in the data sheet but what was there made me think that I wouldn't want to have to pull a graphite shaft if someone used that.   100% resistance to 300*F (149*C) ??

This...so much this

[Nessism]

9 minutes ago, liveagua said:

This...so much this

What does this mean?  It's already been clarified that the material does not retain 100% strength at 300F.  In fact, the strength drops by 2/3's at 180F.  Did you read the data sheet?

Edited June 4, 2021 by Nessism

[Qegurezi]

I don't think anyone has asked could it simply be a bad batch of epoxy even if in date? It wouldn't be the first time this has ever happened. 

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, Qegurezi said:

I don't think anyone has asked could it simply be a bad batch of epoxy even if in date? It wouldn't be the first time this has ever happened. 

 

He already said he kept around the left over epoxy and verified that it cured properly.    That's all it takes to identify old/contaminated epoxy or even a bad mix.   And I doubt it actually happens as frequently as people like to place the blame on it.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Stuart_G

[Bad9]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

And I doubt it actually happens as frequently as people like to place the blame on it.

 

+1. I am also skeptical that this happens as often as it comes up here as I don't think I have ever had bad epoxy in 25yrs and probably 500 clubs assembled. There is a set of clubs posted in the BST that says shafts were "professionally installed" and yet every club appears too have dried epoxy on the hosel. I wouldn't trust those to stay together as the builder didn't pay much attention to detail.

[dekez]

On 6/3/2021 at 8:17 AM, north_east_pro said:

I've always used Bostik Evo-Stik Express (90 second bond) and have nothing but positive words for the product. 

90 seconds? That's not a lot of time to work with there. 

[Ger21]

After finally using the last of the awesome Golfsmith black epoxy, I chose the Brampton Pro Fix 20/20 Long Cure.
Worked great on the first set of irons I built, then put it in the drawer for a year. This is a heated and air conditioned garage, that never gets really hot or cold.
When I pulled it out to build a club the other day, the resin had turned to gel. Filled a glass with hot water from the tap, and dropped it in for 5 minutes. Another 5 minutes with fresh hot water, and back to normal.
Assembled the club, and the next morning, the leftover was fully cured. No problem. You do want to really mix this stuff thoroughly, though. But I guess that goes for all epoxy. When you think you've mixed it enough, mix for another 2 minutes.

Never had this issue with the golfsmith, where it sat in a garage with no heat or AC, and could go from 30° to 95°. And I'd use the same bottles for 5-10 years.

[cristphoto]

I've used Loctite Metal and Concrete epoxy for years with no failures.  3200 shear strength, sets up in 8 minutes and cures in 24 hours.  If I need to take a club apart its also easily done.  Most good hardware stores carry it or available from Amazon.  Good prep, good working conditions and good epoxy and you will be OK.  I always wait beyond the 24 hour spec just to be on the safe side - 36 to 48 hours typically. And as previously stated I leave the extra mixed epoxy out to confirm that it set up properly (if I can't stick a nail in it by hand its good to go).  Since I only work on my own clubs and am not a business I have the luxury of being extra careful.  

[DYOS4]

No issues with Golfworks High Impact or Quick Set or DP810. 

[jimb]

I have never had a problem with the Golfworks epoxies.  I like the Tour Set Plus for speed and shear strength.

[Qegurezi]

19 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

He already said he kept around the left over epoxy and verified that it cured properly.    That's all it takes to identify old/contaminated epoxy or even a bad mix.   And I doubt it actually happens as frequently as people like to place the blame on it.

What exactly does bad left over epoxy look like? I've never had a failure in over a thousand or so clubs and have no idea what it might look like. 

 

I have seen club failure due to bad epoxy however. This guys pitching wedge head went about 30 meters but shockingly the ball somehow ended up about 2 feet away. One of the strangest things i ever saw. Guy had that wedge reshafted just days prior. From memory the epoxy was out of date and was thrown out. This particular pro shop didn't do much club work. 

[Pleasedwith3putts]

5 hours ago, Qegurezi said:

What exactly does bad left over epoxy look like? I've never had a failure in over a thousand or so clubs and have no idea what it might look like. 

 

It won't have cured properly so you will be able to stick your thumb nail into it or worse it will still be sticky in a way that transfers to your fingers if you touch it.

 

That's why I always mix a little extra epoxy on a build as you get to see that the left over epoxy has cured hard so that element won't be a factor in the build.

[Stuart_G]

5 hours ago, Qegurezi said:

What exactly does bad left over epoxy look like? I've never had a failure in over a thousand or so clubs and have no idea what it might look like. 

 

It's more a feel than a look, specifically how hard it gets.   It should be hard and even brittle depending on the thickness.  Unable to create an indentation (or worse scrape any material away) with pressure from a wooden stirring stick.

 

[taki27]

On 6/5/2021 at 6:38 AM, Bad9 said:

 

+1. I am also skeptical that this happens as often as it comes up here as I don't think I have ever had bad epoxy in 25yrs and probably 500 clubs assembled. There is a set of clubs posted in the BST that says shafts were "professionally installed" and yet every club appears too have dried epoxy on the hosel. I wouldn't trust those to stay together as the builder didn't pay much attention to detail.

I agree that “bad epoxy” is very unlikely to cause any failures.  I am surprised that there aren’t more failures from bad mixing, which likely gets blamed as bad epoxy.  I have seen way too many videos and read way too many articles where just a 1 inch long bead of epoxy part A is next to a part B, eyeballed and mixed.  I know it doesn’t require an exact 1-1 ratio, but damn that is taking some chance.  More surprising is that more shafts aren’t snapping 4 inches up the hosel.  People tend to slather the hosel and tip.

[Nessism]

3 hours ago, taki27 said:

I agree that “bad epoxy” is very unlikely to cause any failures.  I am surprised that there aren’t more failures from bad mixing, which likely gets blamed as bad epoxy.  I have seen way too many videos and read way too many articles where just a 1 inch long bead of epoxy part A is next to a part B, eyeballed and mixed.  I know it doesn’t require an exact 1-1 ratio, but damn that is taking some chance.  More surprising is that more shafts aren’t snapping 4 inches up the hosel.  People tend to slather the hosel and tip.

 

You SHOULD coat both the shaft and the hosel.  And laying even beads of the same length and height are a perfectly fine method to measure out the epoxy.  

[taki27]

You should “coat” both sides.  I am talking about the people who glob epoxy on both sides.  We have pulled

enough shafts that have dried epoxy 5 inches up the shaft.

Unless you are going to use an epoxy gun you will be eyeballing.  I use the old measured cups from the Golfsmith/Maltby catalogs so I am

also eyeballing, but I tend to mix more than necessary to come as close as possible to an even mix.  I have seen way too many people do a quick bead that doesn’t even come close to being even.  
 

[AndLun]

3 hours ago, taki27 said:

You should “coat” both sides.  I am talking about the people who glob epoxy on both sides.  We have pulled

enough shafts that have dried epoxy 5 inches up the shaft.

Unless you are going to use an epoxy gun you will be eyeballing.  I use the old measured cups from the Golfsmith/Maltby catalogs so I am

also eyeballing, but I tend to mix more than necessary to come as close as possible to an even mix.  I have seen way too many people do a quick bead that doesn’t even come close to being even.  
 

 

Do you use the cups to measure by volume?

 

From what I have found, epoxy mix ratios are by volume and NOT by weight...does this sound correct?

 

 

Also, thank you very much for everyone's input here so far! 

[drumdude96]

5 minutes ago, AndLun said:

 

Do you use the cups to measure by volume?

 

From what I have found, epoxy mix ratios are by volume and NOT by weight...does this sound correct?

 

 

Also, thank you very much for everyone's input here so far! 

Yes, by volume.  In my experience, Part A and Part B can have different weights per volume, so measuring by weight isn't advisable IMO.  Not saying this is true for ALL 2-part epoxies, but several that I have used.  I use epoxy from the 4oz or 8oz bottles and put each part in a 20mL syringe for accurate dispensing.  For one or two clubs, I'll dispense 1mL of each and that is plenty.  But I always get accurate measurements from the syringes.  Sure beats the eye ball method.  I also use the medicine measuring cups sometimes if I'm doing a set of irons and a larger volume is needed.  Never had a problem measuring that way either.  

Edited June 7, 2021 by drumdude96

[AndLun]

2 minutes ago, drumdude96 said:

Yes, by volume.  In my experience, Part A and Part B can have different weights per volume, so measuring by weight isn't advisable IMO.  Not saying this is true for ALL 2-part epoxies, but several that I have used. 

 

Thank you for confirming. That's too bad because by weight sure would be easier.

 

Also, thanks for sharing the hot box build - nicely done!

[Trap Junior]

I bought Golfworks high strength epoxy a number of months ago and used it for the first times recently building demos.

 

It is way too strong.  Even very long exposure to high temp heat gun wouldnt melt it.  I had to get a guy to use his blow torch thing or whatever its called to get the heads off.   In 15 yrs of using epoxy and clubs and tinkering that has never happened to me before.  Heat gun always works.  In fact when undoing Mizuno clubs fromt he factory the heads come off quite easily.  1 min on the heat gun and a twist and they come off.  I nearly burnt my hand trying to take the golfworks heads off.  I had used to much heat the clubhead was so hot even using the gloves the heat slightly burnt my hand and I still couldnt get it off!