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They call him flipper, flipper, faster than lightning....


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 I am hanging on to a 3 handicap.....but only just given how much I am flipping. I am sick of limping around the course hitting mishits. My only saving grace is that I hit the ball (relatively) straight.

 

Standard 7-iron stats: swing speed 90mph, 8000+ RPM, 21*-22* vertical launch and dynamic loft at 35* (with a 30.5* static loft)....the net effect is carry distance of 150-155yds.

 

It is almost impossible for me to start the ball right of the target...so I think OTT.

 

Even when I hit it 'flush" - which is rare - the 7-iron numbers seem to match a good 8.5-iron.

 

I think that I am guilty of the lead arm getting pinned to the chest on the backswing and the trail elbow folding early and a lot (i.e., greater than 90*). Props to the guys at Athletic Motion Golf for the image below. Blue is 'the pro' and red is 'the am'.

 

286956450_ScreenShot2021-05-30at9_28_09pm.png.4581a22afa2e2267e75c0269e4366fd3.png

 

I also worry that my shoulder turn is limited.

 

Here is a raw video from yesterday....apologies for tucking the shirt in...it's the  sort of mistake mistake you make when you are living alone and and 8 days into a hard 14-day lockdown. It won't happen again.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qEU8ytJNd8

 

I can see that I set up way too far from the ball.

 

What else can you see that might explain the flipping?

 

 

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2021-05-30 at 9.28.27 pm.png

Edited by Geoff_Dickson
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(I'm guessing that most won't get your title reference... But I do, and that's really why I'm responding! Haha Well done!)

 

It looks like you are, in fact, OTT (right shoulder and hands move out as your first downswing move) -- and maybe because you are, you can't afford to shift and rotate your hips and shoulders open at all coming into impact (or else you'd probably miss the ball entirely). There's a frame just before impact where you can pause the video, and you look just like you are at address -- just more upright. Your hips and shoulders are completely square to the ball, so your hands aren't (and can't be) ahead of the ball, and any pressure shift going on is lateral and not the result of a turn. 

 

With the ball too far away, and with the OTT move, you pretty much need straight arms at impact in order to hit the ball. IMO, that's going to result in you flipping. If you've ever seen Monte's "zipper away" video, you realize that the left cheek needs to be moving out of the way/behind you; but when the ball is too far away, and you have to REACH for it, then that move is pretty much impossible. 

 

What I think needs to happen: 1) get closer to the ball (and let your arms hang more under your shoulders), 2) get your pressure into your left foot sooner (in transition, not at/after impact), and 3) get that right shoulder working down (and around), not out and then down.

 

PS -- I'm no pro. I've just had these problems in the past.

 

PPS -- I don't think those particular AMG screenshots pertain to you, really. 

 

PPPS -- Maybe start backward, by addressing the ball normally, and then slowly moving (or "pressing") into impact position. You'll go from address to your hands moving forward, lower, and in some, with your right wrist bent back, hips open and your weight over your left leg, and your shoulders opening and your right shoulder lower... I think it's important to slowly go from address into this impact position to know where you're going. It will look and feel very different than you current impact position.

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In addition to working on your set up as noted above, I think the "Justin Rose Drill" will help you. See link below. This will help you avoid coming over the top and once your arms are down more, you can link up with a pivot and limit some flippiness. You'll likely need to clean up your pivot too, but this should be a good start. 

 

Justin Rose shares his feel vs. real swing drill - YouTube

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10 hours ago, KMeloney said:

(I'm guessing that most won't get your title reference... But I do, and that's really why I'm responding! Haha Well done!)

 

It looks like you are, in fact, OTT (right shoulder and hands move out as your first downswing move) -- and maybe because you are, you can't afford to shift and rotate your hips and shoulders open at all coming into impact (or else you'd probably miss the ball entirely). There's a frame just before impact where you can pause the video, and you look just like you are at address -- just more upright. Your hips and shoulders are completely square to the ball, so your hands aren't (and can't be) ahead of the ball, and any pressure shift going on is lateral and not the result of a turn. 

 

With the ball too far away, and with the OTT move, you pretty much need straight arms at impact in order to hit the ball. IMO, that's going to result in you flipping. If you've ever seen Monte's "zipper away" video, you realize that the left cheek needs to be moving out of the way/behind you; but when the ball is too far away, and you have to REACH for it, then that move is pretty much impossible. 

 

What I think needs to happen: 1) get closer to the ball (and let your arms hang more under your shoulders), 2) get your pressure into your left foot sooner (in transition, not at/after impact), and 3) get that right shoulder working down (and around), not out and then down.

 

PS -- I'm no pro. I've just had these problems in the past.

 

PPS -- I don't think those particular AMG screenshots pertain to you, really. 

 

PPPS -- Maybe start backward, by addressing the ball normally, and then slowly moving (or "pressing") into impact position. You'll go from address to your hands moving forward, lower, and in some, with your right wrist bent back, hips open and your weight over your left leg, and your shoulders opening and your right shoulder lower... I think it's important to slowly go from address into this impact position to know where you're going. It will look and feel very different than you current impact position.

Thanks.  Agreed it starts with setup and getting the arms to hang.

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7 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Too far from the ball and right hand grip doesn’t look right.....could be camera angle on grip issue.  Need face on.

 

Initial swing issue is limited/incorrect right hip movement in backswing.

 

Watched that show as a kid. 

 

 

7D57954D-19A2-4CE2-A3AF-C55453C39E60.png

Thanks Monte for confirming the setup problem.....which I think also makes it difficult to get the hip to rotate correctly.

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DTL and face on videos here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I managed to get myself a lot closer to the ball today...probably about four inches.  I probably hit the ball better....but still hitting it way too high, with way too much spin, and not much ball speed.

 

Things I notice in the videos above....

 

1. A lot of head movement away from the target (face on) and then towards the target...but head not moving much forward or back (DTL).

2.  Not a lot of width at top of backswing (FO)

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Another day of small improvements. I focussed on setting up close to the ball and keeping the head still.  I hit more than a few out of the sweet spot...but vertical launch angle and spin rates remain high and consequently the distance is still low.

 

Next session I will work on the backswing and the moving the trail hip away from the ball without the left hip moving forward.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT5GcTNQjA8

 

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You’re still not moving the right hip enough.  It stops moving around P2.5.  Then to start downswing, the right hip fires hard out.

 

In general. ams move left hip in backswing and right hip in downswing.  Elite golfers do the opposite.

 

You need to keep your right pocket moving the entire backswing, then it needs to stay back longer, then when it finally moves, it should be toward target, not the ball.

 

Study how your right hip works compared to elite golfers in down the line angles.

 

 

 

 

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On 6/6/2021 at 9:23 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

You’re still not moving the right hip enough.  It stops moving around P2.5.  Then to start downswing, the right hip fires hard out.

 

In general. ams move left hip in backswing and right hip in downswing.  Elite golfers do the opposite.

 

You need to keep your right pocket moving the entire backswing, then it needs to stay back longer, then when it finally moves, it should be toward target, not the ball.

 

Study how your right hip works compared to elite golfers in down the line angles.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Monte.  Your words match my 'feels' perfectly.

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On 6/6/2021 at 9:16 PM, Golfbeat said:

As said before set up and you might find this video on the take away helpful.

 

 

 

Great video.  Thanks for sharing.  I am one of those guys whose rehearsals are perfect ...and then it goes to custard when swing faster and add a hip turn. I like the "10 degrees up and 10 degrees out" message.

 

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On 6/4/2021 at 11:38 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

Too far from the ball and right hand grip doesn’t look right.....could be camera angle on grip issue.  Need face on.

 

Initial swing issue is limited/incorrect right hip movement in backswing.

 

Watched that show as a kid. 

 

 

7D57954D-19A2-4CE2-A3AF-C55453C39E60.png

 

This is what I noticed too.  From this angle, the right hip actually looks like it move towards the ball on the backswing.....  at impact you are virtually standing straight up and down....hips parallel to the target line......

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On 6/5/2021 at 7:27 AM, Geoff_Dickson said:

DTL and face on videos here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I managed to get myself a lot closer to the ball today...probably about four inches.  I probably hit the ball better....but still hitting it way too high, with way too much spin, and not much ball speed.

 

Things I notice in the videos above....

 

1. A lot of head movement away from the target (face on) and then towards the target...but head not moving much forward or back (DTL).

2.  Not a lot of width at top of backswing (FO)

You appear to be lifting your head and upper body just before impact. Need to maintain that spine angle throughout.

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