The USA Ryder Cup team could be a train wreck

[zonadub]

On 6/7/2021 at 2:34 PM, bscinstnct said:

Tiger speech to the team be like,

 

 

Let me have your attention for a moment. So you’re talking about what? You’re beyotching about that chip you flubbed, some putt that lipped out and so forth. Let’s talk about something important. Let’s talk about something important.
 

Put that Cameron down. 
 

Cameron is for closers only.

 

Oh, have I got your attention now? Good. ‘Cause we’re adding a little something to the competition . As you all know, first prize is the Ryder Cup trophy. Anyone want to see second prize?
Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you fly home next to Bryson. 
 

You see these hands? You see these hands? These hands have won more Majors than this whole room of losers combined. 
 

The Cup is out there, gents, you pick it up, it’s yours. You don’t, I have no sympathy for you. You wanna go out there and and close, close, it’s yours. If not you’re going to be shining Ian Poulters shoes. 

 

 

At 13-21-3, Tiger got plenty of knife sets.

At 18-22-7, Phil didn’t fare much better.

 

PGA Tour records mean nothing when it comes to the Ryder Cup. Don’t know why, just a fact in the last 25 or so Cups.

[munichop]

Match play is so different from stroke play that in some ways the standings can work against identifying your best players. But with more picks this year the captain will be held even more responsible for the result. 
the European team always finds a way to feel like an underdog. Just like BK always finds a way to play with a chip on his shoulder in majors.  If I had to fill the spots I would pick the guys who were the best putters available. It should be fun.

[Titleist99]

13 minutes ago, munichop said:

Match play is so different from stroke play that in some ways the standings can work against identifying your best players. But with more picks this year the captain will be held even more responsible for the result. 
the European team always finds a way to feel like an underdog. Just like BK always finds a way to play with a chip on his shoulder in majors.  If I had to fill the spots I would pick the guys who were the best putters available. It should be fun.

Yep, just one big putting contest to me. Seems that Europe become the best putters in the world for one weekend.....LOL!

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, zonadub said:

At 13-21-3, Tiger got plenty of knife sets.

At 18-22-7, Phil didn’t fare much better.

 

PGA Tour records mean nothing when it comes to the Ryder Cup. Don’t know why, just a fact in the last 25 or so Cups.

 

Tigerrrrrrrr!

 

RC record stinks.

 

Nonetheless, he walks in a room and all the other pros see is

 

 

[Mustard_Tiger]

Stricker should go with the nuclear option and pair Bryson and Brooks. Maybe the pairing would scramble their brains to the point of playing some good golf. Like shock therapy.

[me05501]

On 6/7/2021 at 3:14 PM, smashdn said:

 

My point was that there (imo) is little to be gained by attempting to get grown men to become "family" by inflicting upon them what amounts to pointless "team building" for a one week long golf competition.  It doesn't require teamwork to win the Ryder Cup, it requires execution under pressure.  Something all of these guys are already capable of doing. 

I agree 100%.
 

I assume a lot of that stuff is more played up by the media than bought into by the players. The endless speculation on team makeup and prep and clothing selections and pods and team room dynamics and who’s sitting and all that just seem phony to me. I guess it gives the broadcasters something to chew on during what is often a very slow-moving event on TV. 
 

I’m not a huge fan of the patriotic jingoism stuff either but that’s probably unavoidable in this format. 
 

Wanna see the US win the next five in a row? Put in a bonus payment. $2MM per man if they win. Problem solved. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by me05501

[3whacker]

its almost impossible to get a US PGA pro to buy into the team format. sure they will say all the right things in front of the media and on camera, but the toughest choice these guys will make is whose G550 are they flying in on to Whistling Straits...getting them to play when the immense spotlight is on every shot played shows who has the cajones and who is more concerned with cashing paychecks..

 

Stricker will put BDC with Phil....calling my shot now

[Mcgeeno]

US does it wrong thats why they lose almost every damn time.

 

Pick Webb Simpson, Kisner, Na, Danny Berger etc.

 

Guys who would rather die than lose a match. Not dudes grinding a paycheck and hoping for a top 12 or already have it all settled in life. 

 

[bobfoster]

At some weird level team golf has always seemed a bit off, a bit jarring. In most of large pro sports - NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer, etc.) everything is about the team. There are individual skills in individual positions, but the majority of practice time is spent working on plays, on coordinating to work as teams.

 

There are two exceptions - tennis and golf. The pros in those sports are fundamentally independent contractors playing a zero sum game. The entirety of practice time is spent figuring out how to beat everyone else in the week's tourney. You don't win as a team, you win as an individual that beat every other individual that week. The attitude that succeeds in that scenario is pretty much diametrically opposed to the concept of teamwork. 

 

To say that once a year for a couple weeks (Ryder/Presidents in golf, the Davis Cup in tennis) you are going to do a complete 180 and try to mush these individuals into a team environment that is completely foreign to the sport cannot help but produce some surreal moments. 

 

(Reverse the scenario - imagine taking two pro football teams and saying "okay, for this weekend's game, there are no teams, you are all out for yourselves as individuals - the guy that scores the most touchdowns by himself wins".)

 

Apologies, it's late, just aimless ruminations.

 

 

[ChrisL52188]

The media said some negative things the 2008 team with Zinger... And they won. 

[Whereismydivot]

It seems to me from watching lots of RC's that the US team is "12 guys". The European squad is "One Team".

Europe always seem to make a lot of chips and putts (Poulter especially) that they don't make in stroke play events. 

Momentum is hard to seize once it is lost.  Europe is good at keeping it.

It may be different this year.  I thought Xander should have been picked last time. Morikawa is good at match play.  Wolff is too, if he were picked.

[bscinstnct]

50 minutes ago, Whereismydivot said:

It seems to me from watching lots of RC's that the US team is "12 guys". The European squad is "One Team".

Europe always seem to make a lot of chips and putts (Poulter especially) that they don't make in stroke play events. 

Momentum is hard to seize once it is lost.  Europe is good at keeping it.

It may be different this year.  I thought Xander should have been picked last time. Morikawa is good at match play.  Wolff is too, if he were picked.

 

Ya, and also in Europe sports there’s lots of “nation vs nation”.  It’s part of the culture since childhood. They get crazy pumped for this. 
 

Euro like FIST! A very underrated movie, btw

 

“One Fist! One Fist!”

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by bscinstnct

[johnseg]

Phil and Tiger both get a lot of crap for their records but it is funny that in singles they both have winning records. Phil has scored 8.5 points out of a possible 15. Tiger has scored 5 out of a possible 7. It is the team format were they struggle, and really for Tiger it was his first and last teams that really hurt his record.

[imakaveli]

Can we pick BK in our team in memory of the good old Challenge Tour times, so we can see BK and Brooksie in the last match on Sunday? 🥰

[Fairway14]

On 6/7/2021 at 6:40 AM, JaNelson38 said:

 

"Getting along" with a competitor is overrated in sports.  Especially pro sports.  This isn't high school.  These guys do this for a living.  They play for money.  Contrary to popular belief, deep 'friendships' on the PGA Tour aren't common.  Sure, most players maybe have a connection with a player or two based on going to the same school, being about the same age, or living in a similar area, but not really.  These guys are all about beating each other.

 

Unless you're a self proprietor, everyone has worked with at least one person who they couldn't stand.  In a large factory or office setting, you usually don't have time for any number of people.  Yet the work continues to get done.  I highly doubt Brooks Koepka is going to let personal feelings of Bryson or DJ affect how he's going to play in the Ryder Cup.  Unless you think he's going to walk up 18 with a chance to win a point for this team and say, "You know, Bryson is a d-bag....screw this.  Im not going to try and win this point."  Or a partner of Patrick Reed say, "To heck with it...I'm going to pull my tee shot OB here so Patrick can't be part of a winning point."  There's a difference between not liking an opponent and respecting an opponent.  I'm sure not many people like Patrick Reed on Tour....but I'd be willing to bet every player on Tour respects his game.  Same with Bryson.  

 

Other than the two alternate shot matches, every player who tees it up in the Ryder Cup is playing their own ball, whether its four-ball or singles.  And in the alternate shot matches you're playing half the shots.  The USA hasn't won more Ryder Cups not because of "team unity"....they've not won them because the team's best players didn't play well.

 

Yes to all your points. I'll add that in recent years the number of team Captains, discussion about Captain's roster picks, discussion and strategy  regarding team pairings etc... has become ridiculous. All 24 Ryder Cup team members are world class skill level players, any one of whom can shoot 65 on any course at any time. I would like to see one team Captain and one assistant. No Captain's picks, just comprise the team of the top 12 points earners. For pairing partners have a team meeting where names are drawn from a hat.

[Fairway14]

On 7/5/2021 at 4:42 PM, Titleist99 said:

Yep, just one big putting contest to me. Seems that Europe become the best putters in the world for one weekend.....LOL!

Agreed.

[JaNelson38]

2 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Yes to all your points. I'll add that in recent years the number of team Captains, discussion about Captain's roster picks, discussion and strategy  regarding team pairings etc... has become ridiculous. All 24 Ryder Cup team members are world class skill level players, any one of whom can shoot 65 on any course at any time. I would like to see one team Captain and one assistant. No Captain's picks, just comprise the team of the top 12 points earners. For pairing partners have a team meeting where names are drawn from a hat.

 

Well, IMO you need a couple of captains picks in case someone gets hot later in the season but doesn't get enough points to qualify, or if a star player gets injured early in the season but regains health late in the year but falls short in points.  But yeah, it would just make sense to have the team be basically the top point earners....and to be honest, if you think 7-10 on the points list won't make the team, you're silly.  The guys who end up in those spots will make the team as long as they're healthy.  Too much is being made of this "six captain's picks" thing.  Its a bunch of guys fighting for 2 spots.

[cxx]

Anyone know where the money goes? Do the players get paid? The Ryder cup event is a huge money generator.  I couldn't find where the money goes.

[JaNelson38]

1 hour ago, cxx said:

Anyone know where the money goes? Do the players get paid? The Ryder cup event is a huge money generator.  I couldn't find where the money goes.

 

I don't believe the players get paid.  Their expenses are paid for themselves and their families, but unless they've changed something, the players don't get paid out of a purse fund.  I'm sure each player wants to make a Ryder Cup in order to get paid for exposure by some of their corporate and club/ball sponsors, though....similar to how pro athletes are paid bonuses in their contracts for making all-star teams.  For example, I'm sure guys like Rory and DJ get a little extra $ from TaylorMade for making the Ryder Cup team.

 

I believe the proceeds of the event are split between the PGA of America and the PGA of Europe, with the host getting a bit more of the pie for that year.

Edited July 7, 2021 by JaNelson38

[cxx]

5 minutes ago, JaNelson38 said:

 

I don't believe the players get paid.  Their expenses are paid for themselves and their families, but unless they've changed something, the players don't get paid out of a purse fund.  I'm sure each player wants to make a Ryder Cup in order to get paid for exposure by some of their corporate and club/ball sponsors, though....similar to how pro athletes are paid bonuses in their contracts for making all-star teams.  For example, I'm sure guys like Rory and DJ get a little extra $ from TaylorMade for making the Ryder Cup team.

 

I believe the proceeds of the event are split between the PGA of America and the PGA of Europe, with the host getting a bit more of the pie for that year.

 

Thanks,  the PGAs probably need the money.

I did find this https://golfbusinessnews.com/news/ryder-cup-business/ryder-cup-revenues/

 

They are pretty quiet about the whole thing.

[Titleist99]

IMO ....The Presidents Cup and the Ryder Cup is nothing but money grabs by the PGATOUR and The PGA of America.  Nothing wrong with that, it's the American way. Something for everyone....Americans win the Pres Cup and Europeans win the Ryder Cup and all is right with golf until one side become sore winners and people stop watching both. IMO don't quote me.

[NoodleSalad]

Send Korn Ferry tour players, offer them something TANGIBLE like an exemption into the PGA Championship for every match they win. 4 matches won, 4 PGAs. If the team wins, make them all exempt for 5 years. I'm not sure the PGAoA has anything else to offer people, frankly. Players should be compensated and incentivized for this event which is really past its sell by date.

[dlygrisse]

They need a leader, not an appointed one, but a spiritual one.  A true leader, someone needs to be that person.  It's what they lacked during that long dry spell, everyone worshipped Tiger so much but he was more about himself not leading a group.  

 

Maybe now that Tiger is more mature and not playing the young guys will come together around him, but one of the players needs to be a natural leader as well, bring everyone together. Confiscating all electronic devices would help as well.  

[Mcgeeno]

I have no true horse in the race as I'm a Canadian with like three good golfers to choose from...

 

But I do find it funny on TV and in forums how the recent narrative on the Ryder Cup is how it isnt important and its a money grab and a putting contest and its hard to get the best individuals amped up for it etc.

 

Pick the right guys who don't just care about a paycheck. Pick the right leadership and build a system to win. That way you might not get bulldozed by the Euros in 9 of the last 12 events and it will be as exciting as in the 80's and 90's when it went back and forth and was must see TV.

 

 

[Rapidcat]

On 7/7/2021 at 2:34 AM, Whereismydivot said:

It seems to me from watching lots of RC's that the US team is "12 guys". The European squad is "One Team".

Europe always seem to make a lot of chips and putts (Poulter especially) that they don't make in stroke play events. 

Momentum is hard to seize once it is lost.  Europe is good at keeping it.

It may be different this year.  I thought Xander should have been picked last time. Morikawa is good at match play.  Wolff is too, if he were picked.

This may change over the next few years with Brexit - the UK having now exited Europe.

 

Will add some additional tensions to team harmony as economic squabbling between UK and Europe harms country relationships.

 

Not immediately, but lets view the harmony in say a decade, might not be quite as cosy as previous.

[smashdn]

17 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

They need a leader, not an appointed one, but a spiritual one.  A true leader, someone needs to be that person.  It's what they lacked during that long dry spell, everyone worshipped Tiger so much but he was more about himself not leading a group.  

 

Maybe now that Tiger is more mature and not playing the young guys will come together around him, but one of the players needs to be a natural leader as well, bring everyone together. Confiscating all electronic devices would help as well.  

 

A yogi.  

 

Maybe assign them all to read Golf in the Kingdom and get them aligned to the forces of the universe?

[bscinstnct]

3 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

A yogi.  

 

Maybe assign them all to read Golf in the Kingdom and get them aligned to the forces of the universe?

 

Ya, they need this guy!

 

He have all the answers the keys to RC victory, and beyond.

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by bscinstnct

[Titleist99]

19 hours ago, Mcgeeno said:

I have no true horse in the race as I'm a Canadian with like three good golfers to choose from...

 

But I do find it funny on TV and in forums how the recent narrative on the Ryder Cup is how it isnt important and its a money grab and a putting contest and its hard to get the best individuals amped up for it etc.

 

Pick the right guys who don't just care about a paycheck. Pick the right leadership and build a system to win. That way you might not get bulldozed by the Euros in 9 of the last 12 events and it will be as exciting as in the 80's and 90's when it went back and forth and was must see TV.

 

 

LOL!.....I love when people tell the story of the Ryder Cup and start with the 80's & 90's and concentrate on Europe winning the last 9 out of twelve. The U.S. won 22 of the first 25 RC. It was an exhibition then and it's an exhibition now. Like Jack Nicklaus once said when asked about the importance of the Ryder Cup "No one has ever came up to me and asked me what my Ryder cup record was". It' all about sportsmanship.....

[Mcgeeno]

36 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

LOL!.....I love when people tell the story of the Ryder Cup and start with the 80's & 90's and concentrate on Europe winning the last 9 out of twelve. The U.S. won 22 of the first 25 RC. It was an exhibition then and it's an exhibition now. Like Jack Nicklaus once said when asked about the importance of the Ryder Cup "No one has ever came up to me and asked me what my Ryder cup record was". It' all about sportsmanship.....

 

I heard them talk about the same thing on the golf channel. Nicklaus looked at it as an exhibition. He was one of the few. Guys like Tiger and Phil and Rory didnt. The Euros and a handful of the Americans who continue getting trounced definitely take it seriously and want to win badly for their teammates.

 

 

Pick the right type of players and leaders and they will have more success. It aint overly complicated.

[Titleist99]

39 minutes ago, Mcgeeno said:

 

I heard them talk about the same thing on the golf channel. Nicklaus looked at it as an exhibition. He was one of the few. Guys like Tiger and Phil and Rory didnt. The Euros and a handful of the Americans who continue getting trounced definitely take it seriously and want to win badly for their teammates.

 

 

Pick the right type of players and leaders and they will have more success. It aint overly complicated.

how bad they want to win the RC is debatable....LOL! Touring pros play for cash, Amateurs play for trophies and country.....Just my opinion.