Pull hook with driver

[Neil495]

Have been fighting a pull/hook for ages, just managed to get a friend to video my swing on the course and it looks a lot worse than I thought. First things that shout out to me are a massive overswing, steep shaft coming down with an open face, then early extension/pivot stall and flip to square the face, am I on the right track?  The view isn’t exactly down the line but hope it’s close enough see what’s going on, any input/drills would be much appreciated. 
 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Neil495

[LegendJeff]

I've cured my driver hook so glad to help, but I cannot get your file to play. Can you load/post as youtube link?

[Neil495]

1 hour ago, LegendJeff said:

I've cured my driver hook so glad to help, but I cannot get your file to play. Can you load/post as youtube link?

 
Thank you for the reply,  posted a couple of YouTube links, hope they work.

[Valtiel]

I would agree with your assessment in that you definitely have the kitchen sink going on here in terms of problems. 

The first glaring one on the DTL video is your alignment. If you did everything right, your ball would fly straight into that tree 30y in front of you on the right. My uncle would do the same thing, keep aiming further and further right, and all this encourages you is to do MORE of the things causing the problem in the first place. Instead of going through frame by frame and position by position pointing out problems, I would first line yourself up down the middle of the fairway and just try to hit the ball straight. Right now you can't make a normal swing aimed that far right so you'll need to address that first. 

Aside from that, yes you are overdoing it on the backswing significantly in that you're rotating way too much going back and way too little coming down to the ball. I would concentrate on making what feel like much "smaller" swings while correcting your alignment and see where that takes you. Please post follow up videos if you can!

[Righty to Lefty]

I feel that your first plan of action would be to give yourself more space and the reason that I came to that assertion is because you hit the ground  prior to hitting the ball as you are too close to the ball.  Your alignment looks fine to me if your intention is to hit up on the ball which will look like a pull in 2D video. I froze your DTL swing at impact and you still had lag tension but you are too close to the ball and so you stuck the ground before the ball.  

 

Once you have the proper amount of space so as to not hit the ground then the fastest way to correct a face to path issue (snap hook) would be to correct said path or face.  If the shot is launching lower than you want then open the face prior to taking your grip and don't change anything else.  If your trajectory is where you want it then you will need to adjust your shoulder line (swing plane) left of where it currently aimed while keeping all the other variables the same. Either of these will reduce the difference between your club face and club path and create a more functional shot shape.  

 

If you were fighting  with "mister snappy" then you may have to really exaggerate the face or plane angles to reduce shape of your shots so don't hesitate to feel like you are going to hit a fade or maybe even a slice which will likely create slight draws in reality.  They key is don't give up your swing motion only make tweaks to it to find impact and leverage. Before you swing try to predict where you want the face to be at impact and then just swing and observe the results.  The club face must point at your intended start line at impact, but your plane/shoulder line orientation will determine curvature and this is the only variable that you want on any given shot.  With driver you will likely feel like you have the face fanned wide open but you have to realize that it is must point at your start line at impact. Finding leverage will likely begin to clear up many of the other "issues" that you are experiencing so that is why I would start with fixing your face/ path relationship first. 

[Neil495]

6 hours ago, Valtiel said:

I would agree with your assessment in that you definitely have the kitchen sink going on here in terms of problems. 

The first glaring one on the DTL video is your alignment. If you did everything right, your ball would fly straight into that tree 30y in front of you on the right. My uncle would do the same thing, keep aiming further and further right, and all this encourages you is to do MORE of the things causing the problem in the first place. Instead of going through frame by frame and position by position pointing out problems, I would first line yourself up down the middle of the fairway and just try to hit the ball straight. Right now you can't make a normal swing aimed that far right so you'll need to address that first. 

Aside from that, yes you are overdoing it on the backswing significantly in that you're rotating way too much going back and way too little coming down to the ball. I would concentrate on making what feel like much "smaller" swings while correcting your alignment and see where that takes you. Please post follow up videos if you

Thank you for the help, it’s much appreciated. I really had no idea I was lining up so far right, a result of keep seeing the ball fly left I’m sure. Correcting that won’t be a problem, even if have to lay a club down on my toe line.  Shortening the backswing isn’t going to be as easy, I’ve been trying to do that for a long time without success, always looks like I’m putting way too much effort into it - I’ll keep at it.

[Hstead]

I was expecting a real train wreck of a swing from your description but I just didn't see it.  You do a lot of things right.  I am not a swing expert but your alignment is way right to me.  Your brain knows where the target is and when you set up that far right, your brain is going to make you do some funking things.

 

My recommendation would be first and foremost, get an online lesson with Monte, Chase (lv_2hack), iteachgolf, or someone you trust.  

 

If I was giving advice, I would say get your aim fixed, then feel like you stop your backswing when your hands are chest high, and then just rip it.  

[Neil495]

3 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I feel that your first plan of action would be to give yourself more space and the reason that I came to that assertion is because you hit the ground  prior to hitting the ball as you are too close to the ball.  Your alignment looks fine to me if your intention is to hit up on the ball which will look like a pull in 2D video. I froze your DTL swing at impact and you still had lag tension but you are too close to the ball and so you stuck the ground before the ball.  

 

Once you have the proper amount of space so as to not hit the ground then the fastest way to correct a face to path issue (snap hook) would be to correct said path or face.  If the shot is launching lower than you want then open the face prior to taking your grip and don't change anything else.  If your trajectory is where you want it then you will need to adjust your shoulder line (swing plane) left of where it currently aimed while keeping all the other variables the same. Either of these will reduce the difference between your club face and club path and create a more functional shot shape.  

 

If you were fighting  with "mister snappy" then you may have to really exaggerate the face or plane angles to reduce shape of your shots so don't hesitate to feel like you are going to hit a fade or maybe even a slice which will likely create slight draws in reality.  They key is don't give up your swing motion only make tweaks to it to find impact and leverage. Before you swing try to predict where you want the face to be at impact and then just swing and observe the results.  The club face must point at your intended start line at impact, but your plane/shoulder line orientation will determine curvature and this is the only variable that you want on any given shot.  With driver you will likely feel like you have the face fanned wide open but you have to realize that it is must point at your start line at impact. Finding leverage will likely begin to clear up many of the other "issues" that you are experiencing so that is why I would start with fixing your face/ path relationship first. 

Thank you for the help. I did remember hitting the ground before the ball but assumed it was a result of an overly steep shaft causing me to stand up and dump my wrist angles. I can try standing a further away though if that’s the issue.  I’m playing again tomorrow so can experiment with the face and shoulder alignments and see what happens. 

[Neil495]

2 minutes ago, Hstead said:

I was expecting a real train wreck of a swing from your description but I just didn't see it.  You do a lot of things right.  I am not a swing expert but your alignment is way right to me.  Your brain knows where the target is and when you set up that far right, your brain is going to make you do some funking things.

 

My recommendation would be first and foremost, get an online lesson with Monte, Chase (lv_2hack), iteachgolf, or someone you trust.  

 

If I was giving advice, I would say get your aim fixed, then feel like you stop your backswing when your hands are chest high, and then just rip it.  

 
Thank you for the help. The video was an eye opener, I had no idea I’d been shuffling so far to the right but should be easily corrected now I’ve seen it. Stopping my hands at chest height is going to be the real challenge, every time I’ve ever tried it my timing is far out of whack it’s a nightmare- I’ll keep working at it. 

[jholz]

Hey @Neil495, I was really intrigued after reading your description of your swing the other day because it sounded so familiar. Having seen the video now, it's almost uncanny how similar my swing used to be to yours. The good news is, there is a solution and others, like myself, have successfully corrected these problems. So, it can be done.

 

Since I am not a golf professional and I don't like getting yelled at, I'm not going to offer a tremendous amount of advice.

 

All I will say is that, for me, the solution began with addressing the length and sloppiness of my backswing.

 

I would wager that you need to work on that too. 

[Neil495]

39 minutes ago, jholz said:

Hey @Neil495, I was really intrigued after reading your description of your swing the other day because it sounded so familiar. Having seen the video now, it's almost uncanny how similar my swing used to be to yours. The good news is, there is a solution and others, like myself, have successfully corrected these problems. So, it can be done.

 

Since I am not a golf professional and I don't like getting yelled at, I'm not going to offer a tremendous amount of advice.

 

All I will say is that, for me, the solution began with addressing the length and sloppiness of my backswing.

 

I would wager that you need to work on that too. 

Thank you, I’d be interested to know how you managed to tighten up your backswing, I’ve been trying forever without success. 

[jholz]

2 hours ago, Neil495 said:

Thank you, I’d be interested to know how you managed to tighten up your backswing, I’ve been trying forever without success. 

 

Yeah sure. But again, take this with a grain of salt.

 

I focused on two things:

 

1. Shortening my shoulder turn: I stop my shoulder turn when my lead shoulder gets under my chin.

 

2. Eliminating Arm Over-run: I don't let my lead elbow or wrists collapse at the top. 

 

When I make a swing like this, it does feel "incomplete" when compared to my older, longer swing. At the top of my backswing it feels like the club is almost pointing straight up in the air - although it's really at a 45* angle or so to the ground. But, I hit the ball farther and more consistently with this shorter backswing - and most importantly STRAIGHT!

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by jholz

[tthomasgolfer605]

13 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I feel that your first plan of action would be to give yourself more space and the reason that I came to that assertion is because you hit the ground  prior to hitting the ball as you are too close to the ball.  Your alignment looks fine to me if your intention is to hit up on the ball which will look like a pull in 2D video. 

 

There is absolutely nothing fine about his alignment. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

Your swing faults are rooted in your setup. No more, no less. You're blocking yourself out from making a good swing because you aim about 50 yards right of your target and have to steepen the shaft and flip at impact.

[Neil495]

7 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Your swing faults are rooted in your setup. No more, no less. You're blocking yourself out from making a good swing because you aim about 50 yards right of your target and have to steepen the shaft and flip at impact.

Thank you, I’m still amazed I’ve managed to start setting up so far right without realising it,  this video has shown me a lot.  My huge over swing must also be an issue though, it looks horrendous to my eye. 

[Righty to Lefty]

7 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

There is absolutely nothing fine about his alignment. 

Anyone who is hitting up on a ball that is intending to hit a straight shot or a draw will look like they are aimed well right of target as they should. Now if he was hitting down on the shot then he would be about to shoot a ball off to the right into the woods but that isn't what happened because he hit up on the shot his club face at impact hugged the tree line.  To hit up on a ball the plane of your swing will be right of target for a right handed golfer and to hit down on a ball the plane of the swing will be left of target.  That is why on video it looks like a pull to hit up on the ball and it looks like a push when a ball is being hit down on.  

 

To hit up on a ball the club head is moving up and to the left for a right handed golfer and to hit down it is moving down and to the right at impact.  That means that if the club head is square to that arc it will look like a pull on 2D video because the low point of the swing arc is behind the ball and thus the club head is moving away from low point up and to the left.  To hit down on a ball the club head is moving towards low point so it is moving down and to the right. In other words he hit it where he was aimed... hitting it where you aimed is a good thing as all it requires is for you to recalibrate your aim. There was nothing wrong with his alignment as he hit the ball exactly where his alignments indicated.  

 

Where you strike the ball along the swing arc is of the utmost importance and must match your intent.  Someone who is fearing the pull hook should aim more right as they are accounting for their miss so he is right to aim well up the right side of the hole until he can better command the club face and the club path.  

 

Drill this video into your head and you will then be able to self diagnose every shot that you ever hit as it covers plane and impact along the swing arc and don't hesitate to ask if you are unclear on anything and need further explanation on anything.  

 

 

[Righty to Lefty]

9 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Your swing faults are rooted in your setup. No more, no less. You're blocking yourself out from making a good swing because you aim about 50 yards right of your target and have to steepen the shaft and flip at impact.

How do you know what his target was...he never said where he  (thought) was aimed.  I derived my assertion from noting his plane alignments and then I froze his shot at impact to get an idea of where the club face was oriented and it matched inline with the shot he produced.  

[tthomasgolfer605]

9 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Anyone who is hitting up on a ball that is intending to hit a straight shot or a draw will look like they are aimed well right of target as they should. Now if he was hitting down on the shot then he would be about to shoot a ball off to the right into the woods but that isn't what happened because he hit up on the shot his club face at impact hugged the tree line.  To hit up on a ball the plane of your swing will be right of target for a right handed golfer and to hit down on a ball the plane of the swing will be left of target.  That is why on video it looks like a pull to hit up on the ball and it looks like a push when a ball is being hit down on.  

 

To hit up on a ball the club head is moving up and to the left for a right handed golfer and to hit down it is moving down and to the right at impact.  That means that if the club head is square to that arc it will look like a pull on 2D video because the low point of the swing arc is behind the ball and thus the club head is moving away from low point up and to the left.  To hit down on a ball the club head is moving towards low point so it is moving down and to the right. In other words he hit it where he was aimed... hitting it where you aimed is a good thing as all it requires is for you to recalibrate your aim. There was nothing wrong with his alignment as he hit the ball exactly where his alignments indicated.  

 

Where you strike the ball along the swing arc is of the utmost importance and must match your intent.  Someone who is fearing the pull hook should aim more right as they are accounting for their miss so he is right to aim well up the right side of the hole until he can better command the club face and the club path.  

 

Drill this video into your head and you will then be able to self diagnose every shot that you ever hit as it covers plane and impact along the swing arc and don't hesitate to ask if you are unclear on anything and need further explanation on anything.  

 

 

I really hope you don't teach golf for a living. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

11 hours ago, Neil495 said:

Thank you, I’m still amazed I’ve managed to start setting up so far right without realising it,  this video has shown me a lot.  My huge over swing must also be an issue though, it looks horrendous to my eye. 

Trust me. You have more good things happening than you realize. All of us will pick out the parts we don't like about our swing. There's a 50 year old who just won a major who has a long swing like you do. He has much better setup though as all excellent golfers do. Just get that aim correct. I'd like to see a video of your preshot routine. 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by tthomasgolfer605

[Righty to Lefty]

12 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I really hope you don't teach golf for a living. 

Please elaborate as to which part of my response is incorrect and I will be glad to respond as you seem to think that I have just made up my response in a forum to a complete stranger.  I always find it entertaining when someone responds like you did because it confirms that you don't know what you are talking about and are just using blanket assertions.  I asked you how you knew what he was aimed at and you didn't respond.  I find it very logical that someone who is susceptible to a pull hook would aim down the right side of any given hole and his impact suggest that he hit the ball exactly where he was aimed whether he was aware of it or not. 

 

My suggestion is that he give himself more space so as to not hit the ground prior to the hitting the ball, and also to begin to understand his impact and alignment better as that will likely remedy many of his so called "flaws" that are not necessary to even mention yet as he mentioned in a prior response that he wasn't aware that he was aimed right.  I never once mentioned his swing motion, because his swing motion shouldn't be assessed until he is aware of his aim and alignment because if he is not his body will do whatever it can to try and hit the ball. I have experienced and witnessed the simple power of becoming aware of and having the utmost trust in your alignments and it's amazing how one's swing will naturally adjust.  His awareness of where he is in relation to the ball is what needs to be first recalibrated and at that point any swing motion changes will be refinements and not swing overhauls.  

 

If a child swings and misses the ball..do you overhaul their swing...absolutely not...you help them get into a better relationship to the ball so as to make their natural swing motion strike the ball along the way. No one ever messes with a child's swing motion and they are always allowed to swing their swing.  That is because the science and math of golf are the same for everyone, everyday, forever yet as adult learners the opposite approach is taken when a bad shot is hit where we immediately go to trying to change the mechanics of our swing motion.  That is a flawed approach 100% of the time. You don't set up to the shot...the shot sets you up. That is because the parameters to hit any given shot are fixed and there is only ONE point in time along the swing arc that will produce that given shot and everything else is a version of a miss that you did or didn't get away with.  So should the focus be on the swing motion, which is different for everyone, or should it be on the  parameters that are the same for everyone, everyday, forever?  You decide.  

[tthomasgolfer605]

4 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Please elaborate as to which part of my response is incorrect and I will be glad to respond as you seem to think that I have just made up my response in a forum to a complete stranger.  I always find it entertaining when someone responds like you did because it confirms that you don't know what you are talking about and are just using blanket assertions.  I asked you how you knew what he was aimed at and you didn't respond.  I find it very logical that someone who is susceptible to a pull hook would aim down the right side of any given hole and his impact suggest that he hit the ball exactly where he was aimed whether he was aware of it or not. 

 

My suggestion is that he give himself more space so as to not hit the ground prior to the hitting the ball, and also to begin to understand his impact and alignment better as that will likely remedy many of his so called "flaws" that are not necessary to even mention yet as he mentioned in a prior response that he wasn't aware that he was aimed right.  I never once mentioned his swing motion, because his swing motion shouldn't be assessed until he is aware of his aim and alignment because if he is not his body will do whatever it can to try and hit the ball. I have experienced and witnessed the simple power of becoming aware of and having the utmost trust in your alignments and it's amazing how one's swing will naturally adjust.  His awareness of where he is in relation to the ball is what needs to be first recalibrated and at that point any swing motion changes will be refinements and not swing overhauls.  

 

If a child swings and misses the ball..do you overhaul their swing...absolutely not...you help them get into a better relationship to the ball so as to make their natural swing motion strike the ball along the way. No one ever messes with a child's swing motion and they are always allowed to swing their swing.  That is because the science and math of golf are the same for everyone, everyday, forever yet as adult learners the opposite approach is taken when a bad shot is hit where we immediately go to trying to change the mechanics of our swing motion.  That is a flawed approach 100% of the time. You don't set up to the shot...the shot sets you up. That is because the parameters to hit any given shot are fixed and there is only ONE point in time along the swing arc that will produce that given shot and everything else is a version of a miss that you did or didn't get away with.  So should the focus be on the swing motion, which is different for everyone, or should it be on the  parameters that are the same for everyone, everyday, forever?  You decide.  

If you don't see anything wrong here, especially on a hole that requires a fade, then I have nothing more to say.  I highly doubt is target was to bomb it over the trees. 

[Righty to Lefty]

1 hour ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

If you don't see anything wrong here, especially on a hole that requires a fade, then I have nothing more to say.  I highly doubt is target was to bomb it over the trees. 

Like I said...he hit the ball exactly where he was aimed.  You also just told someone who is struggling with a snap hook to hit a fade....Umm if he could hit a fade he wouldn't be struggling with a snap hook!! Also the line of your feet do not dictate the plane of your swing as that is represented by the shoulder line because the club is being held in the hands.  You can have your feet in a place that they are comfortable and the club is still going to follow your shoulder line always. That is precisely why I posted the video about the D Plane because it will start the process of understanding the face to path relationship.  His club face was traveling square to the arc and that shot flew exactly where it was supposed to.  I know that he hit up on the ball because he hit the ground prior to the shot (we gotta clean that up Neil495)!! Now had he hit down on the shot then that ball would have been hit straight into the trees and that is also why that D plane video is important because where you strike the ball along the swing arc is of the utmost importance. To hit up on the ball the shoulder line should absolutely be oriented right of the target line and his is.  

 

 

 

This is me hitting a ball that flew straight and guess where the plane of my swing is oriented....at the building in the far left side of the screen.  But since my intention is to hit up on the ball this shot was struck square to the arc and flew straight. All of these principles are explained in the D Plane video that I posted.   

 

 

To fix a snap hook or a slice you must first understand what they truly are and then the fix is actually easy. He can either open the club face prior to taking his grip or move the plane of his swing left while leaving everything else the same, or a little bit of both and note the shot results and continue to refine to find the desirable ball flight.  Once the ball flight is to his liking then recalibrate the aim to hit it at targets and go play golf.  That is how simple the fix is literally, but you have to allow yourself to become uncomfortable. 

 

The simplest D Plane Video ever (I love this video and it is some 8 years old!!): 

 

[jholz]

Yikes. Anyone who comes into these discussions with a high level of certainty that they can solve all of your problems with "one simple trick" should instantly be suspect.

 

At the end of the day, I think that we can all agree that if the OP sets up square to the target and swings the club like Phil Mickelson, then all of his problems will be solved. 

 

So yeah, OP, why don't you just do that?

 

 

[Righty to Lefty]

16 minutes ago, jholz said:

Yikes. Anyone who comes into these discussions with a high level of certainty that they can solve all of your problems with "one simple trick" should instantly be suspect.

 

At the end of the day, I think that we can all agree that if the OP sets up square to the target and swings the club like Phil Mickelson, then all of his problems will be solved. 

 

So yeah, OP, why don't you just do that?

 

 

I agree that there is no such thing as a "secret" as all of the clues are actually sitting in plain sight.  I see what you are getting at when you say swing your swing but in the spirit of noting the math of things the old "train track" reference is not accurate  for any levered golf shot because unless you intend to hit a draw with your irons or a fade with your driver you would have to hit the ball at low point and no shot is struck at low point of the swing arc. That is also explained in the video that I posted.  The math of golf is undefeated and is unchanging and that's where the foundations of golf lie.  Anything that is up  for interpretation is not a foundational principle...ie grip, stance, posture, swing motion. Impact is non negotiable.    

[jholz]

15 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I agree that there is no such thing as a "secret" as all of the clues are actually sitting in plain sight.  I see what you are getting at when you say swing your swing but in the spirit of noting the math of things the old "train track" reference is not accurate  for any levered golf shot because unless you intend to hit a draw with your irons or a fade with your driver you would have to hit the ball at low point and no shot is struck at low point of the swing arc. That is also explained in the video that I posted.  The math of golf is undefeated and is unchanging and that's where the foundations of golf lie.  Anything that is up  for interpretation is not a foundational principle...ie grip, stance, posture, swing motion. Impact is non negotiable.    

 

You're all right dude. I was talking about the other guy.

 

At the end of the day the OP suffers from a variety of issues - as we all do - and there are any number of ways to go about addressing them. As such, you've got a point. So does that other guy. Between the three of us, we could probably construct a pretty effective golf swing. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

The greatest ever would tell him the same thing. Apparently people on here know more than Jack. 

 

[Neil495]

Thank you for the input gents, I’m sorry if I’ve caused any conflict it wasn’t intentional. As regards my alignment, I’ve always been careful to pick a spot on the ground, in front of the ball, then set my club face to that line and take my stance.  Clearly, with hitting so many hooked balls into the left hand trees, I’ve become sloppy with my alignment with the driver and have started to aim way right without me realising.  The video down the line was a shock and I’m now being careful to align correctly, which should be an easy adjustment.  The over body rotated, arm run on backswing, is going to be way more difficult to fix.

[Righty to Lefty]

18 hours ago, jholz said:

 

You're all right dude. I was talking about the other guy.

 

At the end of the day the OP suffers from a variety of issues - as we all do - and there are any number of ways to go about addressing them. As such, you've got a point. So does that other guy. Between the three of us, we could probably construct a pretty effective golf swing. 

I agree. Early on it should feel like the person is being flooded with information but the objective should be to build the foundation of things that can be relied upon and then used other bits of information along the way so to refine things. That being said at no point should you ever go back to square one because the foundation fundamentals never change.  

 

14 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

The greatest ever would tell him the same thing. Apparently people on here know more than Jack. 

 

 

This is not the first time Jack was wrong, and yes he is wrong here also.  Jack used to put out bad information in regards to the ball flight laws also and that surely ruined a generation of golfers that hung on his every word until it was proven to be incorrect and the exact opposite of what he said he felt. Pros that have played the game all their lives often play off of feel and we all know that feel isn't real.  I stated in an earlier post that the feet are irrelevant to swing plane as that is dictated by your shoulder plane because the club is being held in your hands.  His plane is not parallel to the target line...only his feet are.  His plane is left of his target line as evidenced by this still frame: 

 

Being that his shoulder line is left of the target line that means that he is going to be hitting down this shot even though it is on a tee so in this case he must draw the ball to hit the target line and he in fact hits a push draw as you can see the ball start right of his target line: 

 

A tough question can actually be derived from Jacks video...who do you think you should actually take golf advice from?  A pro that has played golf all their life by feel, or the engineer that designs swing robots that doesn't even play golf?  That engineer is likely nowhere close to Jack's level of player, but the machine that they design is better than any golfer that will ever exist in regards to consistency. A pro is telling you how THEY play golf...an engineer that designed the swing robot is replicating HOW golf is played. You'll never hear them say "Pingman needs to go through a shaft change because his swing is off and he's developed a slice!" That is because the engineers understand the math of impact because it is the same for everyone, everyday, forever. I lean on pros for course strategy and mental game cues because describing a feel is likely not relevant to me because we are all built differently and feel is not real. 

 

If Jack wanted to hit a ball down his target line with leverage his plane must move to the right  of the target line so that he can hit up on the ball with his clubhead traveling square to the swing arc. This is not a guess, this is 100% fact, and I encourage you to dive deeper into understanding these principles because they are relevant to everyone.  The two d plane videos that I posted explain these concepts fully. Golf in it's simplest form is club face, club plane, and low point orientation and depth. Two of those factors are fixed and that is club face because it must point at your intended start line at impact, low point orientation because it must be in the correct location  in relation to the ball or purity of strike is compromised. The only factor that is adjustable is swing plane and that is what is used to tilt the spin axis and create varying degrees of curvature.  I am not making this up...this is 100% fact for everyone from Tiger to a 36 handicap.  

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Righty to Lefty

[Righty to Lefty]

10 hours ago, Neil495 said:

Thank you for the input gents, I’m sorry if I’ve caused any conflict it wasn’t intentional. As regards my alignment, I’ve always been careful to pick a spot on the ground, in front of the ball, then set my club face to that line and take my stance.  Clearly, with hitting so many hooked balls into the left hand trees, I’ve become sloppy with my alignment with the driver and have started to aim way right without me realising.  The video down the line was a shock and I’m now being careful to align correctly, which should be an easy adjustment.  The over body rotated, arm run on backswing, is going to be way more difficult to fix.

You are actually doing a service because you are being presented with information to then go out and test and report back. I am noting every detail that you are mentioning and I will tell you this just from this post above.  You should not have the club face pointing down the target line at address because that is static and not dynamic and you cannot aim unless you are fully simulating where you intend to be at impact because the club is not being subjected to any force statically. You didn't become sloppy with your alignment, you were trying to find a remedy to play as best as you could and make it through your round in as few shots as possible.  

 

At address statically your club face should be open to your target line and that is why I suggested to you to open the face 15 degrees and then take your grip and swing as normal.  The fact is that your club face being square to your target line statically is closed to the arc under force and that is creating  " Mr. Snappy!"  If you open the face prior to taking your grip then you will reduce that amount and reduce the amount that the spin axis is tilted and  you can create draws and even fades from manipulating club face, club path, or a combo of the two.  

 

This is a video that I made for one of my buddies explaining how to set the lowpoint but it is relevant because I go through dynamically predicting impact and and how that can then be aimed. 

 

[tthomasgolfer605]

5 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I agree. Early on it should feel like the person is being flooded with information but the objective should be to build the foundation of things that can be relied upon and then used other bits of information along the way so to refine things. That being said at no point should you ever go back to square one because the foundation fundamentals never change.  

 

 

This is not the first time Jack was wrong, and yes he is wrong here also.  Jack used to put out bad information in regards to the ball flight laws also and that surely ruined a generation of golfers that hung on his every word until it was proven to be incorrect and the exact opposite of what he said he felt. Pros that have played the game all their lives often play off of feel and we all know that feel isn't real.  I stated in an earlier post that the feet are irrelevant to swing plane as that is dictated by your shoulder plane because the club is being held in your hands.  His plane is not parallel to the target line...only his feet are.  His plane is left of his target line as evidenced by this still frame: 

 

Being that his shoulder line is left of the target line that means that he is going to be hitting down this shot even though it is on a tee so in this case he must draw the ball to hit the target line and he in fact hits a push draw as you can see the ball start right of his target line: 

 

A tough question can actually be derived from Jacks video...who do you think you should actually take golf advice from?  A pro that has played golf all their life by feel, or the engineer that designs swing robots that doesn't even play golf?  That engineer is likely nowhere close to Jack's level of player, but the machine that they design is better than any golfer that will ever exist in regards to consistency. A pro is telling you how THEY play golf...an engineer that designed the swing robot is replicating HOW golf is played. You'll never hear them say "Pingman needs to go through a shaft change because his swing is off and he's developed a slice!" That is because the engineers understand the math of impact because it is the same for everyone, everyday, forever. I lean on pros for course strategy and mental game cues because describing a feel is likely not relevant to me because we are all built differently and feel is not real. 

 

If Jack wanted to hit a ball down his target line with leverage his plane must move to the right  of the target line so that he can hit up on the ball with his clubhead traveling square to the swing arc. This is not a guess, this is 100% fact, and I encourage you to dive deeper into understanding these principles because they are relevant to everyone.  The two d plane videos that I posted explain these concepts fully. Golf in it's simplest form is club face, club plane, and low point orientation and depth. Two of those factors are fixed and that is club face because it must point at your intended start line at impact, low point orientation because it must be in the correct location  in relation to the ball or purity of strike is compromised. The only factor that is adjustable is swing plane and that is what is used to tilt the spin axis and create varying degrees of curvature.  I am not making this up...this is 100% fact for everyone from Tiger to a 36 handicap.  

 

If let's say Butch Harmon saw the still pic of his aim or his swing video. Do you think he would say it's fine and throw D-plane at him? Highly doubtful.