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On 6/11/2021 at 6:26 PM, tthomasgolfer605 said:

If let's say Butch Harmon saw the still pic of his aim or his swing video. Do you think he would say it's fine and throw D-plane at him? Highly doubtful.  

I don't care what Butch Harmon thinks if his advice isn't consistent with the math of things because that is all that matters since impact is not subject to interpretation.  The fact is that his swing motion is not the root issue. At some point along his swing arc the club is presented at his target line....the problem is that the ball wasn't present at that location...period.  Therefore before any changes are made to the swing motion, which should be a last resort, changes should be made to where the ball is in relation to him in attempt to find leverage and purity of strike, and then a recalibration of aim to bring it on target.  When he finds that location it will be uncomfortable because comfortable didn't produce the desired result but over time a trust will develop and many of compensations will be corrected because he will have found leverage and trust that he is in position in relation to his intentions and this is everything. 

 

If the ball is not in the correct location in relation to the golfer the body will feel this and try to do whatever it takes to accomplish the task of just hitting the ball. The problem is that the objective isn't to hit the ball, it is to orient yourself as such that your swing motion strikes the ball along it's swing arc with the face squaring to your intended target at a required speed for that distance. And since the body is not good at doing multiple tasks consciously at once the factor that should be focused on is the speed needed for the shot because the face and path orientations/calculations should be done prior to the shot.  Every swing no matter how it looks visually at some point along the swing arc aligns to the target at one point. Once you are certain of these parameters then the body will begin to calm down and practice swing effort will become your real swing effort because you will find max efficiency while getting max output on any given shot from a 1 inch putt to a 300 yard drive. When you find leverage the body will begin to refine grip, posture, stance, etc. to deal with and adapt to all this new found leverage because that is exactly what the body does is adapt.  

 

I literally watched my Son go through this exact same process where he wanted to be comfortable and topped 10-15 balls in a row.  I just observed initially because I wanted to see if he was going to adjust his position in relation to the ball. I finally  asked him if he was going to continue doing the same thing and expecting a different result.  I then moved him to the proper location in relation to the ball, which is all that a topped shot is is a poor relationship to the ball, and told him to just swing the club...his exact words were "it's uncomfortable there" and he then swung out of frustration and lit fire to that six iron.  He then looked at me and we both started laughing because he now knew that there was nothing wrong with his swing, the issue was with where he was in relation to the ball.  At that point all his "flaws" that he was developing quickly dissipated and his swing motion became much more fluid and athletic as a result as he gained trust and recalibrated.  

 

Edited by Righty to Lefty
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I would agree with your assessment in that you definitely have the kitchen sink going on here in terms of problems.  The first glaring one on the DTL video is your alignment. If you did everything

There is absolutely nothing fine about his alignment. 

Yeah sure. But again, take this with a grain of salt.   I focused on two things:   1. Shortening my shoulder turn: I stop my shoulder turn when my lead shoulder gets under my chin.

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Thank you all again for the input regarding alignment, it’s something that should be easy for me to correct.  What has surprised me though, is that no one has mentioned my loss of posture and hip depth, which I assume is my bodies attempt to flatted a very steep shaft coming down.  To me it looks like it all stems from a collapsing lead leg in the backswing causing a huge over rotation of the hips and run on with the arms, surely correcting this is equally important as the alignment issue?

A1EA1CC3-65B4-4B7F-B5A9-E457A764227B.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Neil495 said:

Thank you all again for the input regarding alignment, it’s something that should be easy for me to correct.  What has surprised me though, is that no one has mentioned my loss of posture and hip depth, which I assume is my bodies attempt to flatted a very steep shaft coming down.  To me it looks like it all stems from a collapsing lead leg in the backswing causing a huge over rotation of the hips and run on with the arms, surely correcting this is equally important as the alignment issue?

A1EA1CC3-65B4-4B7F-B5A9-E457A764227B.jpeg

I noticed it but that isn't the fundamental reason that you are hitting a pull hook.  Your lead leg is also not collapsing in your backswing...it is flexing as the trail leg extends so that the hips can rotate.  This is what is supposed to happen.  

Edited by Righty to Lefty
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8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I don't care what Butch Harmon thinks if his advice isn't consistent with the math of things because that is all that matters since impact is not subject to interpretation.  The fact is that his swing motion is not the root issue. At some point along his swing arc the club is presented at his target line....the problem is that the ball wasn't present at that location...period.  Therefore before any changes are made to the swing motion, which should be a last resort, changes should be made to where the ball is in relation to him in attempt to find leverage and purity of strike, and then a recalibration of aim to bring it on target.  When he finds that location it will be uncomfortable because comfortable didn't produce the desired result but over time a trust will develop and many of compensations will be corrected because he will have found leverage and trust that he is in position in relation to his intentions and this is everything. 

 

If the ball is not in the correct location in relation to the golfer the body will feel this and try to do whatever it takes to accomplish the task of just hitting the ball. The problem is that the objective isn't to hit the ball, it is to orient yourself as such that your swing motion strikes the ball along it's swing arc with the face squaring to your intended target at a required speed for that distance. And since the body is not good at doing multiple tasks consciously at once the factor that should be focused on is the speed needed for the shot because the face and path orientations/calculations should be done prior to the shot.  Every swing no matter how it looks visually at some point along the swing arc aligns to the target at one point. Once you are certain of these parameters then the body will begin to calm down and practice swing effort will become your real swing effort because you will find max efficiency while getting max output on any given shot from a 1 inch putt to a 300 yard drive. When you find leverage the body will begin to refine grip, posture, stance, etc. to deal with and adapt to all this new found leverage because that is exactly what the body does is adapt.  

 

I literally watched my Son go through this exact same process where he wanted to be comfortable and topped 10-15 balls in a row.  I just observed initially because I wanted to see if he was going to adjust his position in relation to the ball. I finally  asked him if he was going to continue doing the same thing and expecting a different result.  I then moved him to the proper location in relation to the ball, which is all that a topped shot is is a poor relationship to the ball, and told him to just swing the club...his exact words were "it's uncomfortable there" and he then swung out of frustration and lit fire to that six iron.  He then looked at me and we both started laughing because he now knew that there was nothing wrong with his swing, the issue was with where he was in relation to the ball.  At that point all his "flaws" that he was developing quickly dissipated and his swing motion became much more fluid and athletic as a result as he gained trust and recalibrated.  

 

You don't care what Butch or Jack think about the importance of proper setup fundamentals. I suppose Tiger is wrong too since he learned a thing or two from both of them. 

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On 6/13/2021 at 7:56 PM, tthomasgolfer605 said:

You don't care what Butch or Jack think about the importance of proper setup fundamentals. I suppose Tiger is wrong too since he learned a thing or two from both of them. 

There is no such thing as proper setup fundamental because there are many different variations of grip, stance, posture and those minor differences are what allowed Butch or Ledbetter to exist in the first place.  Foundational principles are things that are fact for everyone, everyday, forever so you cannot create a "method" because there is no varying from a foundational principle because impact can only be interpreted in one way.  Tiger was obviously successful but there is also no way to really measure how any of the information he received may have actually been to his detriment. Adam Scott has a beautiful swing and is said to be aesthetically perfect...so why doesn't he dominate?  He doesn't dominate because other guys with "lesser" swings are better at getting their setup to match their intentions. 

 

The golf ball doesn't care how good your swing is, it only cares about the information that you input into it....period.  Jordan Speith has a chicken wing...so what...he's able to reliably get to impact.  And don't get me started on Jim Furyk....I rest my case. Unless you played golf from a child and had time to put in nearly a million reps before the age of 17, it is mandatory to understand the principles of impact through D Plane and Ball flight laws. Of course some will chime in with a one off story about how they know someone that plays to scratch and started playing golf later in life but the fact is that is 1 in a a pool of millions. 

 

Grip, posture, and stance will iron themselves out if you understand and are constantly monitoring your relationship to the ball, impact, and ball flight. The body will adapt accordingly when it is given a task in effort to accomplish it with as little effort as possible thus understanding the math of things early on will be converted to reliable and repeatable feels down the road and that is something that Tiger or a golfer that has played golf all their life from an early age never has to experience. It took me six years to break 90 right handed and 6 months to do it lefty from scratch and that is because I was just mindlessly beating balls right handed but was equipped with the math of things left handed and it greatly steepened my learning curve which was necessary because time wasn't on my side but that knowledge of the fundamental principles was massive as I had the answer before I even hit the shot, I just had to learn to trust it and ingrain it.    

Edited by Righty to Lefty
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