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Rules question (unmarked hazard)


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I'm bringing this up because its the first time I've ever seen it.   My son played at local US kids tournament at Cimmaron Golf Resort in Cathedral City.   Everything is going great until we reach the 135 yard par 3 (hole 12).  He blocks his iron right and we see it hit next to the green and kick right.  We thought ok, no big deal.   Once we get up to the green, we notice there is some brush in a waste area to the right of the green and water.  Neither the brush or the water is visible from the tee box.   I've never seen a water hazard not marked by either stakes or a painted line.   Although I was pretty positive my son's ball went in the water, I couldn't prove it and our playing partners argued that the ball could have hung up in one of the several bushes.  Since we couldn't find the ball, it would be considered lost and he would need to re-tee.    Note:  I was able to talk with one of the parents in the group ahead after the round and he confirmed the ball went into the water hazard.  If I knew this prior, my son could have taken a drop and possibly saved bogey or double at worst.  Instead he took a triple on the hole :(.

 

Question is two-fold.  What is the correct ruling in this situation and have any of you ever seen a hazard unmarked?  This is the first time for me.

 

thanks

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Thanks guys.  It was just a local tournament, but we were playing with a kid who has been trying to beat my son forever.  My son ended up losing by two shots with a score of +1.  I was super proud of

If the penalty area was marked right before the shrubs then we would likely be able to drop at point of entry, no closer to the hole instead of stroke + distance.  We all agreed where the ball hit and

Definitely 2 Ball it in the future and sort it out after the round

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Post this is the rules/etiquette forum. There are a bunch of regulars in there who are tournament rules officials. Although to get a definitive answer you'd probably have to be clear on what the area was: unmarked penalty area, waste area, or general area.

 

My attempt to answer your two questions.

 

  1.  What is the correct ruling in this situation? Unfortunately, if it's not marked and there isn't a local rule regarding the area you can't treat it as a penalty area (aka hazard). As unfortunate as the situation was it sounds like you did the right thing to treat it as a lost ball and take the stroke / distance penalty.
  2. Have any of you ever seen a hazard unmarked? Yes, but it's usually on pretty crappy golf courses and I've never seen it during tournament play. 
Edited by Abh159
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Probably would have proceeded to play 2 balls (re-tee and take a drop). Let the tournament director sort it from there.  Poor job is setting up the course but probably expected in a USKidsGolf local event.

 

Here is aerial shot of the hole I believe (from https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/cimarrongresortlongc/holemap.htm?next=overview.htm#

 

image.png.de15787f7761a22dfe6b3a29c7036df4.png

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Putter - Ben Hogan by Bettinardi BHB5-SS

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1 hour ago, LeoLeo99 said:

I'm not following how have the penalty area marked would have helped you.  You still wouldn't have known if the ball was lost in or out of the PA since you didn't know where it went.

 

If the penalty area was marked right before the shrubs then we would likely be able to drop at point of entry, no closer to the hole instead of stroke + distance.  We all agreed where the ball hit and conclude entry would be just to the right due to the hard kick of the mound next to the green.   Thanks for the pic above @wildcatden.  That is the exact hole!!

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What you described was parent who wanted to take advantage of the situation and just looking to run up scores on a kid who is probably better then their kid.

 

if you seen the ball go in the water it should have been presumed to have gone in.   
 

Going back and playing 2 balls in this situation is why you have 6 hour rounds and just hurts kids scores.  
 

 

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