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Is this the weakest era in golf?


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Pro golf is fine. The talent level is insane and it always has been.  In fact, the depth of talent at the elite, pro, level is arguably the greatest it has ever been. 

Nicklaus and Woods were very special dominant players and eventually some kid will come along that will be right up there with them. 

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There's a decent discussion to be had about this but I can sense from your tone and some of the hyperbolic nonsense in your post that you're probably not interested in having it.

If the internet teaches us anything, it's that when you're dogmatically ramming home an opinion, facts play second fiddle to the point you're making.

pretty weak era in golf posting, for sure ... 

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1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:


 

Here is owgr 2007 vs 2019.

 

See any familiar names? 

 

In fact, “old timers” Rose and Casey were ranked higher in 2019 than they were 12 years prior in their primes.

 

Seem pretty equal as far as “big time” talent.

 

Plus, TW being #5 at 42 years old and with a broken body and a shadow of his 1.0 game throws cold 🥶 water on any arguments these current guys are uber golfers. Same with JRose at #4.

 

 

464C84E2-8287-4B7B-9AC2-4BF597FD0FD6.jpeg

 

 

 


 

 

7CD75CA6-BFF8-409A-95BA-8EE4DD431583.jpeg

Or older talented players are taking care of their bodies better than in years past and staying competitive longer.

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I've actually gotten way more invested in watching golf that I used to when Tiger wasn't a factor. Coverage (minus the overdoing of commercials) is better with more shot tracer and things like that. I really enjoyed the US Women's Open as well, tons of talent out there. 

 

I think the depth at the top is really good, any of the top 10 can play like the best player in the world, and plenty more can contend on any given week. 

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OP claimed the leading scoring average proves its a weak era in golf. In 1980 the leaders were Trevino and Watson at a third or so stroke  higher than leads today….

BUT the average tour stroke average was over a stroke higher than the average today.

 The leading stroke average of more subject to tour course setups than equipment changes. In spite of some claiming the tour stops are set up too easy I see deeper rough and firmer  faster green most weeks. The players ability just makes it look easy.

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11 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Or older talented players are taking care of their bodies better than in years past and staying competitive longer.


 

True but JRose got to #1! That’s better than ever. Casey also just about matched the same best owgr of his career. 
 

These are not generational players, Casey has never even won a major.

 

And Tiger at # 5 in total train wreck condition compared to his 1.0 days makes the new guard look like a bit of a joke ; )

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11 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:


 

True but JRose got to #1! That’s better than ever. Casey also just about matched the same best owgr of his career. 
 

These are not generational players, Casey has never even won a major.

 

And Tiger at # 5 in total train wreck condition compared to his 1.0 days makes the new guard look like a bit of a joke ; )

The older guys staying relevant is a part of the reason there is so much depth on tour. When you only have a couple strokes in scoring average between #1 and the tour average anyone can win any given week.

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Just now, Shilgy said:

The older guys staying relevant is a part of the reason there is so much depth on tour. When you only have a couple strokes in scoring average between #1 and the tour average anyone can win any given week.


 

Agree but it also dispels the notion that there are a bunch of guys close to Tigers level in the top 10.

 

None is anywhere close to TW 1.0. Just like back 15 years ago. 

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Just now, bscinstnct said:


 

Agree but it also dispels the notion that there are a bunch of guys close to Tigers level in the top 10.

 

None is anywhere close to TW 1.0. Just like back 15 years ago. 

You have never ever seen me post that any are close to Tiger 1.0. And never will.  But that doesn’t mean the tour is not strong.

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1 minute ago, bscinstnct said:


 

Agree but it also dispels the notion that there are a bunch of guys close to Tigers level in the top 10.

 

None is anywhere close to TW 1.0. Just like back 15 years ago. 

I think it's in part due to high-definition video capture which has revealed Tiger's secret sauce...his swing mechanics. 15 years ago, teaching professionals didn't even fully understand the physics of hitting a draw/fade. 

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9 minutes ago, nvr3putt said:

I think it's in part due to high-definition video capture which has revealed Tiger's secret sauce...his swing mechanics. 15 years ago, teaching professionals didn't even fully understand the physics of hitting a draw/fade. 

They may not have understood the physics…or came up with the D plane name but they certainly knew how to reliably move the ball.

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8 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

You have never ever seen me post that any are close to Tiger 1.0. And never will.  But that doesn’t mean the tour is not strong.


 

Ya, I think that, if you look at the pics I posted showing top 20 in 07 vs 2019, strength is very similar. A little stronger now. Maybe but barely. But then, you got TW in his prime. He’s worth like 3 of these guys now! Seriously, he won more tourneys and majors than the top 3 or 4 guys of today COMBINED and  in similar time frames.

 

But, I’m definitely thinking that from #20 on, the fields get deeper from generation to generation for sure. 

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It's way easier to make a case that it's the strongest era for golf. Typically better pay will lead to better capitalization of talent. World rankings also support that more people from more countries are playing.

 

It's a thinking fallacy to think that the lack of a dominant superstar means it's a weak era. Math would suggest the stronger the era, the more parity you will see.

 

If you roll a dice with 6 numbers, the number 3 will come up a decent amount. If you roll a dice with 100 numbers, it will come up far less often

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I will admit that for some reason I stopped tuning in a few years ago. Other than the Majors, I just find the PGA Tour boring these days. So many of these guys either let you down (Rory), are overhyped (Rickie, Spieth) or just aren't that likable (Brooks, Bryson). 

 

I just don't really find the PGA Tour compelling these days. There's more reason not to like a lot of these guys (Reed). 

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Posted (edited)

What Rory, DJ, and Spieth did in the '10s would do great in just about any era. I think the Tour is in a pretty great spot right now. 

 

I don't understand the complacency argument at all. It's not "easy" to keep your card. We're talking about the best 125 players on the planet.

 

I think there are quite a few guys playing for nothing other than legacy at this point. You could also argue that the allure of today's purses attract more good players, thus making it even more difficult to keep a Tour card. 

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This discussion always comes up and there seems to be two camps. The field is so strong no one can dominate and the the field is weak.

 

Anytime there is an era with a truly dominant figure fields become too strong or two weak. I happen to think they don't really change a whole lot. You just these Super Novas that transcend the game for a period and they it goes back to normal. If you look at the Tiger Era which I will define as 1997-2011 you had 60 majors and 7 guys win multiple majors and a total of 37 different individuals. And while you have 7 guys win 30 it still shows that there were a lot of different winners.

 

In 2012-2019 there were 32 majors and 5 guys win multiple majors and a total of 23 different individuals. Again this list has 5 guys account for 14 but still relatively the same.

 

The real outlier is tiger getting 14 in the first period.

 

There will be another golfer come along and dominate again. I don't think it is anyone currently on tour but they will come.

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3 hours ago, manku said:

 

Like men's tennis?  Where the big three have won virtually every grand slam tournament for the past 15 years?

 

Also, these tennis players get paid more than ever...doesn't seem to dull their desire to win.

 

I think golf is just too deep these days, and the margins between the players is very thin...I know when I watch the players at Riviera, it's incredible how many unbelievable players there are that just have a win or two out there...or maybe even none.

 

What I meant is that it's tough for there to be dominant stars in golf, because like you said, the margins are very thin and half the field has a legit shot at winning a tournament.  Tennis is a different animal because the best player almost always wins in tennis, so when you take 3 all-time greats in the same tournament, there is no chance for anyone else.

 

I wonder how Tiger's winning % would fare these days if his career started 20 years later.  I think it's safe to say that Jack would have won less majors and I wonder about Tiger.  Rather than him winning 25% of the time, could it have fallen to 15-20%?

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

It's way easier to make a case that it's the strongest era for golf. Typically better pay will lead to better capitalization of talent. World rankings also support that more people from more countries are playing.

 

It's a thinking fallacy to think that the lack of a dominant superstar means it's a weak era. Math would suggest the stronger the era, the more parity you will see.

 

If you roll a dice with 6 numbers, the number 3 will come up a decent amount. If you roll a dice with 100 numbers, it will come up far less often

I don't think the dice analogy works because being the best isn't a random occurrence, but I do agree that you can't assess the strength based upon the presence or lack thereof of a Superstar.

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2 minutes ago, johnseg said:

I don't think the dice analogy works because being the best isn't a random occurrence, but I do agree that you can't assess the strength based upon the presence or lack thereof of a Superstar.

 

Yeah it's not apples to apples , the general point is just the more good players there are, the harder it is to win

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10 hours ago, mat562 said:

 

If the internet teaches us anything, it's that when you're dogmatically ramming home an opinion, facts play second fiddle to the point you're making.

Yup...never let the facts get in the way of a good story. A time-honored axiom proven time and again.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, bscinstnct said:


 

True but JRose got to #1! That’s better than ever. Casey also just about matched the same best owgr of his career. 
 

These are not generational players, Casey has never even won a major.

 

And Tiger at # 5 in total train wreck condition compared to his 1.0 days makes the new guard look like a bit of a joke ; )

That all sounds great. But let’s talk about your best avatar ever!!! 🙌🏼👍🏼

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TiScape said:

That all sounds great. But let’s talk about your best avatar ever!!! 🙌🏼👍🏼

 

ED4536B2-49D4-444B-AFBD-B57FECA083CA.jpeg


 

In Uncle Rico Baseball ⚾️ During the 80s

 

Rickey was it, man!

 

Was like, man, Rickeys thighs are bigger than your chest! 🤣

 

I played CF and was a base stealer and mimicked RH the way he took a lead. 
 

Then he came Yankees!

 

One time I was at a game and the Yanks were losing bad. But these girls sitting on the left field line were flirting with Rickey and after the inning, he go right over and start rapping with them. Prolly met them after the game.

 

Rickey!!

 

 

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Edited by bscinstnct
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Depends on your metric.  
 

 

if you’re talking  windy , tough , hard and fast and opposite of target golf ? Yes. Today pro doesn’t play that game often.  Phil won because he could and they couldn’t.  
 

if it’s target golf snd putting ?  No. Today’s guy is stronger.  So depends.  Kiawah - links courses - or places like Augusta when it’s dry , will absolutely identify the ballstriker who has imagination pertaining to hitting different trajectories, shapes and less than full shots.  

 

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way deeper now 

 

Each goat raises the bar so we see a lot of parity until the next guy who comes along and believes he can take X guys (Tigers) records from him, this person is driven in an unfathomable way by the love for the game and competition. 

 

Humanity is not about regression, we are constantly learning and pushing further. 

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8 hours ago, bscinstnct said:


 

Any data, bro?

 

; )

 

 

0F8712CD-B6C8-4C3F-8E95-1F7377A572D9.jpeg

Yes, the tour has gotten better from 07, though no one has reached peak (08) Tiger.

 

http://datagolfblogs.ca/an-intergenerational-approach-to-ranking-pga-tour-players/

 

Data also says that the [I]average[/I] modern PGA tour pro is better than Nicklaus in the 80s

 

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