Requiring All Rounds be Posted

[denkea]

10 minutes ago, RCGA said:

Tired of playing match play events with 20hcps who 3 over through 9 holes with the match all but over.

Understand that for sure.  I used to play with a guy (7 Handicap) who might be 1 under at the turn and when the match was pretty much over he played like he'd just begun the game for the last 6/7 holes.  

[Girevik]

So evidently there's a lot of confusion and misinformation floating around the club about this.  This all started a few weeks back with an e-mail from the handicap committed saying if you wanted to play in competitive events you must post all rounds you are on the sheet for (at least as understood by me and everyone I talked to about it).  One of my buddies asked and was told by an assistant pro that if you were doing a practice round or something non following the rules "just post your average score", which seemed to me to be at odds with official posting rules.

 

The response I got to my e-mail was from our head pro who said I was "100% correct" and only rounds playing under the rules of golf are to be posted.  When I followed up with an e-mail about the consequences of not posting a round not played by the rules he said there would be none.   This seems to contradict the e-mail sent out by the committee, but I've saved off his response and if I get any flak for not posing a score for a round I'll  share that with them.  At this point I'm thinking the committee either poorly worded the email, or took it farther than they had the right to do.

 

So bottom line, it seems it's much ado about nothing and I will continue to follow the posting rules.  Thanks everyone for your input and advice.

[jvincent]

2 hours ago, Girevik said:

At this point I'm thinking the committee either poorly worded the email, or took it farther than they had the right to do.

 

So bottom line, it seems it's much ado about nothing and I will continue to follow the posting rules.  Thanks everyone for your input and advice.

 

Good to hear that common sense has prevailed.

 

My guess is that the rogue member(s) of the handicap committee were talked to and are now just hoping everyone will forget about it.

[mark m]

I believe it is more likely there was a reason the email was sent. And the HC is hoping specific individual(s) adjust their behavior. 

[PoolPond]

Our club has the same rules but I believe you are to tell them if you're playing a practice round before you start. I would not know though as I've never played a "practice" round.  We had guys who seemed to shoot low in those rounds but always then referred to them as practice rounds because they hit a couple of extra balls.

 

But there's zero chance the pro shop is actually policing these rounds. Heck, they can't even get the actual work that needs to be done completed more of less wasting time going through this nonsense. 

 

You can blame the handicap rules makers for to rule that forbids posting rounds when played by yourself. So much for a game of honesty. 

[sui generis]

22 minutes ago, PoolPond said:

You can blame the handicap rules makers for to rule that forbids posting rounds when played by yourself. So much for a game of honesty. 

 

You've certainly got the wrong end of the stick on this one. 🙄

[Sawgrass]

23 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

You've certainly got the wrong end of the stick on this one. 🙄

I agree that allowing the posting of solo rounds will not reduce sandbagging!

Edited June 15, 2021 by Sawgrass
Left out “not.”

[nsxguy]

7 hours ago, Girevik said:

So evidently there's a lot of confusion and misinformation floating around the club about this.  This all started a few weeks back with an e-mail from the handicap committed saying if you wanted to play in competitive events you must post all rounds you are on the sheet for (at least as understood by me and everyone I talked to about it).  One of my buddies asked and was told by an assistant pro that if you were doing a practice round or something non following the rules "just post your average score", which seemed to me to be at odds with official posting rules.

 

The response I got to my e-mail was from our head pro who said I was "100% correct" and only rounds playing under the rules of golf are to be posted.  When I followed up with an e-mail about the consequences of not posting a round not played by the rules he said there would be none.   This seems to contradict the e-mail sent out by the committee, but I've saved off his response and if I get any flak for not posing a score for a round I'll  share that with them.  At this point I'm thinking the committee either poorly worded the email, or took it farther than they had the right to do.

 

So bottom line, it seems it's much ado about nothing and I will continue to follow the posting rules.  Thanks everyone for your input and advice.

 

If you got the original email from the HC, couldn't you have just "replied" to it ?

 

I don't know the structure/hierarchy of your club of course but the pro isn't necessarily the final word.

 

You still need to get to the Committee.

[rogolf]

2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

If you got the original email from the HC, couldn't you have just "replied" to it ?

 

I don't know the structure/hierarchy of your club of course but the pro isn't necessarily the final word.

 

You still need to get to the Committee.

It does seem that many of the responsibilities at a club that used to be the jurisdiction of volunteer club members have devolved to staff through attrition of members willing to accept those responsibilities.  And then the members complain about how the staff do/do not perform!  My wife and I just had this conversation at dinner about deteriorating conditions at our club.

Edited June 15, 2021 by rogolf

[tatertot]

On 6/9/2021 at 10:24 AM, jvincent said:

That's an odd policy.

 

Section 2 of the handicap rules very specifically defines what rounds are acceptable for posting.

 

Strictly speaking a "practice round" is not defined, but if you are hitting multiple balls, extra chips, etc. you are not playing according to the rules so the round would not qualify as acceptable.

 

Sounds like the committee at your club is over-reacting to something.

Don't know about over-reacting ... but sounds like they've had a strain of sandbagitis run through the club. Highly contagious. Masks and social distancing don't work, and there is no known vacine.

[Mudguard]

I'm in New Zealand where handicaps are different from the US, but I've often wondered why courses simply don't list rounds played and cards submitted in the weekly email. Just have a running tally. Nothing like a bit of peer pressure. Oh Jim, you've printed fifty cards this year but only handed in ten?

 

I've been pondering the practice aspect too, say you have a good round going, all you do is drop another ball and hit it, oh damn it, practice round! One of my fourball doesn't hand in bad cards (which of course, is to his detriment) but it makes it tough on his playing partner when playing for a beer in our weekly best ball. 

[Girevik]

17 hours ago, PoolPond said:

 

 

But there's zero chance the pro shop is actually policing these rounds. Heck, they can't even get the actual work that needs to be done completed more of less wasting time going through this nonseI

I thought I said it in my original post, but the pro shop has nothing to do with it.  The club has started using software that tracks what is in GHIN vs the tee sheet and sends a reminder e-mail at the end of the day to anyone on the sheet who has not posted.  If they do that they can certainly record the information.

 

13 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

If you got the original email from the HC, couldn't you have just "replied" to it ?

 

I don't know the structure/hierarchy of your club of course but the pro isn't necessarily the final word.

 

You still need to get to the Committee.

IIRC the e-mail came from a no reply e-mail address, but if not I no longer have that e-mail.  I likewise couldn't find an address on the website for the committee so I reached out to the pro.

[PoolPond]

22 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

You've certainly got the wrong end of the stick on this one. 🙄

how do I have it wrong? 

[Sawgrass]

22 hours ago, Sawgrass said:

I agree that allowing the posting of solo rounds will not reduce sandbagging!

I tried to answer that with the above, Poolpond, but I see I’d screwed up my comment the first time. 

[PoolPond]

16 hours ago, Sawgrass said:

I tried to answer that with the above, Poolpond, but I see I’d screwed up my comment the first time. 

I'm confused on this one Sawgrass.  I said, one can blame the handicap rules makers for making a newer rule that says you can no longer post solo rounds.  I was then told I was wrong (or certainly have the wrong end of the stick, which I assumes means I'm wrong) by sui generis.  I'm asking sui generis, where am I wrong in what I said? 

[Sawgrass]

Poolpond, I too am interested in Sui’s response.  But here’s mine: You said, “You can blame the handicap rules makers for to rule that forbids posting rounds when played by yourself. So much for a game of honesty. ”

 

First, while the game demands honesty from its players, it recognizes that some don’t rise to the challenge. That’s why there is a rigid rule against dishonesty:

• If a player knows that he or she has breached a Rule that involves a penalty and deliberately fails to apply the penalty, the player is disqualified.

Second, the handicap rules have long stated that peer review of other’s scores is an essential component. It’s hard for any peer of yours to review your score if there is zero opportunity to watch your play.  I applaud the change, it’s a step in the right direction.

 

I don’t mock the Ruling Bodies for their efforts in this regard.

[MountainKing]

This thread was a good read and also solidifies my feeling about playing in any type of event that uses handicaps! 

[bcski]

2 hours ago, MountainKing said:

This thread was a good read and also solidifies my feeling about playing in any type of event that uses handicaps! 

Tournaments using handicaps are fine if they are costing less than the regular green's fees, and held on a day you want to play on a course you want to play.  By all means, sign up knowing it could be a long round, but for a discount on a good course - why not.   But to take a handicapped tournament seriously has become a joke in the U.S. 

 

Sandbagging has become a national pastime...  If you are in the top percentile in your handicap bracket and you are honest - I promise you won't get a prize or $$$.

 

It is sad, but it is this way...  

 

 

[sui generis]

3 hours ago, Par Be A Joke said:

But to take a handicapped tournament seriously has become a joke in the U.S.

 

Many less skilled players enjoy handicapped tournaments. What they don't enjoy are scratch players kvetching about handicapped tournaments. 😉

[bcski]

40 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

Many less skilled players enjoy handicapped tournaments. What they don't enjoy are scratch players kvetching about handicapped tournaments. 😉

Well as a 12 handicap player I will agree with your statement about the scratch players on this forum board.

 

Thanks for having my back😀

[rogolf]

2 hours ago, Par Be A Joke said:

Well as a 12 handicap player I will agree with your statement about the scratch players on this forum board.

 

Thanks for having my back😀

A quick question - how do you identify the "scratch players" on this forum?

[JeffreySpicoli]

6 minutes ago, rogolf said:

A quick question - how do you identify the "scratch players" on this forum?

There are certain giveaways . . .

 

CEO, oldish, genetically gifted, stripes 2 irons, throw darts with irons, fought in hand-to-hand combat during black bag ops in foreign countries.

[rogolf]

20 minutes ago, JeffreySpicoli said:

There are certain giveaways . . .

 

CEO, oldish, genetically gifted, stripes 2 irons, throw darts with irons, fought in hand-to-hand combat during black bag ops in foreign countries.

James Bondish then?

[JeffreySpicoli]

2 hours ago, rogolf said:

James Bondish then?

I’ve been called worse.

[MtlJeff]

12 hours ago, JeffreySpicoli said:

There are certain giveaways . . .

 

CEO, oldish, genetically gifted, stripes 2 irons, throw darts with irons, fought in hand-to-hand combat during black bag ops in foreign countries.

 

My ears are burning...Though i'm only 39 , so how dare you call that old!

[JeffreySpicoli]

2 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

My ears are burning...Though i'm only 39 , so how dare you call that old!

 

Oldish, not old. And you fall into oldish due to your penetrating and wide-ranging wisdom. Far beyond your years.

[tboh]

Does a "true" 10 have much of a chance against a "sandbagging" 15?

 

Sincerely, Not James Bond

[Girevik]

35 minutes ago, tboh said:

Does a "true" 10 have much of a chance against a "sandbagging" 15?

 

Sincerely, Not James Bond

I would say no, unless the bagger had a horrible day, the honest golfer had his best day, or a combination of both.

 

The way the handicap system is set up, two honest players, regardless of handicap, will be even heads up using handicaps.  If one player is sandbagging, regardless of actual relative handicap, that will give him or her an unfair advantage. 

[tboh]

3 minutes ago, Girevik said:

I would say no, unless the bagger had a horrible day, the honest golfer had his best day, or a combination of both.

 

The way the handicap system is set up, two honest players, regardless of handicap, will be even heads up using handicaps.  If one player is sandbagging, regardless of actual relative handicap, that will give him or her an unfair advantage. 

👌

[JeffreySpicoli]

3 minutes ago, Girevik said:

I would say no, unless the bagger had a horrible day, the honest golfer had his best day, or a combination of both.

 

The way the handicap system is set up, two honest players, regardless of handicap, will be even heads up using handicaps.  If one player is sandbagging, regardless of actual relative handicap, that will give him or her an unfair advantage. 

 

No. The handicap system is such that lower caps have a slight advantage over higher caps when caps are applied and all other things are equal, blah blah blah.