PING MAFIA... always counterbalanced shafts?

[FormerDimer]

Hello PING WRXers,

 

Recently, some swings with the G425 hybrid with the stock Alta Slate CB on TrackMan Sim have me in a bit of an identity crisis. The thing was so easy to hit! 230 carry, soft falling fades all day. Needless to say, I ordered one immediately with the same setup (Alta CB Slate 70s).

 

My question is, since I've read that alot of the Ping heads are heavier to help with the advertised increased MOI, does installing a non-counterbalanced shaft negate that benefit? I know the Tensei Orange has been popular with the last few PING gens because of the fact it's counterbalanced, but looking at the WITBs of the PING staffers on tour there seems to be a wide array of different shafts being used in all the builds.

 

Tempted to go down the FW wood route as well if it's just as forgiving... don't think I can get along with the Turbulators in the driver though. Who knows, in HS I played that old ISI Kuehne special so it'd be a bit of a homecoming for me if so.

 

Thanks for the insight! 

Edited June 11, 2021 by FormerDimer

[JAM01]

For driver, yes. As mentioned the recent Ping driver heads are on the heavier side. Especially the G425. Interestingly, I regripped driver, 3 wood and hybrid and the driver shaft was the only one with the weight plug in the butt end. I wonder if a heavier grip on a normal shaft would crest a counter balanced set up. 

[MattM97]

I don't think so might depend on the person and the shaft. I have a G410 LST 3W and I have an Aldila NV 2KXV Green shaft which I don't believe it's counter balances but possibly has a higher balance point which could do similar things. 

[hammergolf]

2 hours ago, FormerDimer said:

Hello PING WRXers,

 

Recently, some swings with the G425 hybrid with the stock Alta Slate CB on TrackMan Sim have me in a bit of an identity crisis. The thing was so easy to hit! 230 carry, soft falling fades all day. Needless to say, I ordered one immediately with the same setup (Alta CB Slate 70s).

 

My question is, since I've read that alot of the Ping heads are heavier to help with the advertised increased MOI, does installing a non-counterbalanced shaft negate that benefit? I know the Tensei Orange has been popular with the last few PING gens because of the fact it's counterbalanced, but looking at the WITBs of the PING staffers on tour there seems to be a wide array of different shafts being used in all the builds.

 

Tempted to go down the FW wood route as well if it's just as forgiving... don't think I can get along with the Turbulators though. Who knows, in HS I played that old ISI Kuehne special so it'd be a bit of a homecoming for me if so.

 

Thanks for the insight! 

The counter balancing is so you can gain ball speed by using a heavier head but keeping swing weight and balance point more traditional. If your hybrid is working well for you, don’t change it. As the saying goes, if it’s not broke, don’t fix it.

[ChipNRun]

A related point on heavier heads. Ping will increase the head weight of irons and clubs if you request it. Some players who are want lighter shafts are finding the clubs a bit feathery. So, Ping will add a little head weight to move swingweight from C9 to maybe D2 (if you will request it).

 

Callaway will do likewise. (Two different fitters tipped me off about this.)

[Nixhex524]

I have the G425 Max 3w and find that I get much better results with the Alta CB 60 than I do with an Aldila Rogue silver 70 I tried in it.  Ping really opened my eyes to CB shafts, they have for the most part been great for me.  I would say do not write off the Alta at all, they are great shafts... makes the Ping clubs feel WAY more balanced to me.

[animalgolfs]

2 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

A related point on heavier heads. Ping will increase the head weight of irons and clubs if you request it. Some players who are want lighter shafts are finding the clubs a bit feathery. So, Ping will add a little head weight to move swingweight from C9 to maybe D2 (if you will request it).

 

Callaway will do likewise. (Two different fitters tipped me off about this.)

Request heavy heads when ordering.....simple as that. Every Ping order since i3 have gotten that request

[Honeybadger]

I have the counter balanced Rogue White (70 grams) and an Evenflow Black (65 grams) in the 425 Max and I prefer the Evenflow Black even though it isn’t counterbalanced- at least I don’t think it is. 
 

[Stuart_G]

15 hours ago, FormerDimer said:

My question is, since I've read that alot of the Ping heads are heavier to help with the advertised increased MOI, does installing a non-counterbalanced shaft negate that benefit?

 

The shaft has no influence what so ever on the MOI of the head.   Only adding or removing weight from the head will change the MOI of the head.  So it all depends what you do to the head weight after the shaft change.   If you change out the shaft, then the swing weight could go up at the same playing length.   If you let the swing weight go up and play it that way, then the MOI will be the same.   If you play the hybrid shorter to drop the swing weight, the MOI will be the same.  It's only if you remove some weight from the head that the MOI will go down.

 

BUT, in reality it's not something you have to worry about.  The few grams used to adjust the swing weight just isn't going to effect the MOI enough to get any noticeable difference in how forgiving it might be on off-center hits.   Getting the swing weight to be a good fit is MUCH more important to getting and maintaining good feel and performance with the club.   

 

Counterbalance shafts are really all about being able to get a bit more playing length out of a club w/o having to loose that discretionary weight.

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Stuart_G

[Poolparty]

23 hours ago, FormerDimer said:

Hello PING WRXers,

 

Recently, some swings with the G425 hybrid with the stock Alta Slate CB on TrackMan Sim have me in a bit of an identity crisis. The thing was so easy to hit! 230 carry, soft falling fades all day. Needless to say, I ordered one immediately with the same setup (Alta CB Slate 70s).

 

My question is, since I've read that alot of the Ping heads are heavier to help with the advertised increased MOI, does installing a non-counterbalanced shaft negate that benefit? I know the Tensei Orange has been popular with the last few PING gens because of the fact it's counterbalanced, but looking at the WITBs of the PING staffers on tour there seems to be a wide array of different shafts being used in all the builds.

 

Tempted to go down the FW wood route as well if it's just as forgiving... don't think I can get along with the Turbulators though. Who knows, in HS I played that old ISI Kuehne special so it'd be a bit of a homecoming for me if so.

 

Thanks for the insight! 

There are no turbulators on the FWs, the shaft doesn't affect the MOI of the head, and staff bags don't matter. Unless they list length, head and swing weight, then maybe they do.

 

Also you might want to order the exact same grip and length on your new order. My club builder told me ping increased the weight of the head to fit the increased weight from the arccos grip, and if you replace the arccos grip you'll lose length

[Honeybadger]

So I played today with the non-counter balance Evenflow Black on the front and then switched to the counterbalanced Rogue White. Despite the fact that the Rogue is 5 grams heavier the head felt lighter because of the counterbalancing. 
I had good drives with both, but I hit more fairways with the Rogue. On the other hand I hit the ball higher with the Evenflow, so once I get more used to it, it may give me more distance. Maybe I should try and counterbalance the Evenflow with a heavier grip. 

[Stuart_G]

7 hours ago, Honeybadger said:

So I played today with the non-counter balance Evenflow Black on the front and then switched to the counterbalanced Rogue White. Despite the fact that the Rogue is 5 grams heavier the head felt lighter because of the counterbalancing. 
I had good drives with both, but I hit more fairways with the Rogue. On the other hand I hit the ball higher with the Evenflow, so once I get more used to it, it may give me more distance. Maybe I should try and counterbalance the Evenflow with a heavier grip. 

 

You're changing too many things at once (static weight, swing weight, and stiffness profile) to be able to pin down what's actually causing the difference in performance.

 

Nothing wrong with experimentation but just realize that adding weight to the grip is different than what happens with most counterbalanced shafts.   It's really a misleading label.   They don't add a bunch of weight right in the butt of the club.   They redistribute the weight through the whole shaft to raise the balance point  (think of it as being more of a tip light shaft instead of a butt heavy shaft).   So the effect is much closer to actually reducing the head weight than it is to adding weight to the butt.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Stuart_G

[FormerDimer]

If anyone is curious, I've been hitting the crap out of the hybrid and it's probably one of the best finds I've had in a long time... Alta CB and all. The tinkerer in me finds it hard to accept that I'm playing a stock shaft (I can hear the collective gasp from all WRXers, lol), but the performance is just too good.

 

I was fortunate enough to qualify for our local Pub Links out here in NorCal; a few of the guys I played with were rocking the G425 fairway woods and they all commented on how easy it was to hit. That experience coupled with this thread caused me to schedule some time with our local fitter, hehe. Maybe I'll have some more new PING hardware at the top of the bag, who knows.

 

Turbulators on the driver still too much though.

[BDowning]

I play the G425 LST and have been playing Ping drivers since the G30. I played the Ping Tour 65 until the 425 and now game the AV Raw White TX now, which is not a counterbalanced shaft, and absolutely love the combo. I like feeling the heavier weight in my driver, so a counterbalanced shaft would be somewhat counter productive for me. 

 

That being said, everyone is different, so I know counterbalanced shafts do wonders for those who prefer that feeling. 

[Ghostwedge]

What is with the "turbulator" hatred ? You're not going to find  more forgiving, longer driver on the market. You are looking at the head for what a second,   before launch time ? ...   ...... s.  m.  h.

[SylvesterLundgren]

1 hour ago, Ghostwedge said:

What is with the "turbulator" hatred ? You're not going to find  more forgiving, longer driver on the market. You are looking at the head for what a second,   before launch time ? ...   ...... s.  m.  h.

Honestly I feel the same way. Everytime I see someone say that, internally I feel like they’re manufacturing a reason to dislike something even tho everything is pointing that they like the club. 
the got darn turbulators ugh 

but I hit some of best shots with XYZ like 🙄

Edited July 7, 2021 by SylvesterLundgren

[Milfordlefty]

On 7/2/2021 at 4:39 PM, FormerDimer said:

Turbulators on the driver still too much though.

Paint the head pink like Bubba Watson and you won't notice the turbulators!

[FormerDimer]

If it works for you, it works for you. To me, it looks cheap and corny AF. Any sort of busy crown is a major turn off for me (PING, TM, PXG) which is why I played Titleist for so long and only recently ventured outside that OEM.

 

 

[SylvesterLundgren]

3 hours ago, FormerDimer said:

If it works for you, it works for you. To me, it looks cheap and corny AF. Any sort of busy crown is a major turn off for me (PING, TM, PXG) which is why I played Titleist for so long and only recently ventured outside that OEM.

 

 

I pay attention the face of the club not the crown but I feel your perspective it’s just you’ll forget about them after awhile