Local Rules Confusion

[Mr. Bean]

23 minutes ago, antip said:

If you do that it would be a no relief situation. What we had was the line of stakes across the water split the water into water hazard (left of stake line only) and GUR (right of stake line only).

 

I do not understand the difference. Left part of WH is WH, right part of WH is GUR. Then what?

 

Do you mean that if part of a WH is declared as GUR that GUR does not lose the status of a WH? Well, if that is the case, why did the right part of a WH lose its status as WH when declared as GUR? I don't get it.

[antip]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I do not understand the difference. Left part of WH is WH, right part of WH is GUR. Then what?

 

Do you mean that if part of a WH is declared as GUR that GUR does not lose the status of a WH? Well, if that is the case, why did the right part of a WH lose its status as WH when declared as GUR? I don't get it.

Everything left of stake line through the water is water hazard. That is the only water hazard. All the rest is not water hazard at all, just GUR. Normal rules/thinking do not apply, the State GA approved local rule overrode the normal rules of golf.

[jimbo123]

1 hour ago, antip said:

Everything left of stake line through the water is water hazard. That is the only water hazard. All the rest is not water hazard at all, just GUR. Normal rules/thinking do not apply, the State GA approved local rule overrode the normal rules of golf.

Pretty interesting.  Can you explain why it required special GA approval?   Are there restrictions on what a committee can normally deem as GUR, which weren’t met here? 
 

edit: actually looking at the definition of penalty area, it includes bodies of water even if not marked; so I guess it was actually declaring that area “not” a penalty area which required approval?

Edited June 12, 2021 by jimbo123

[antip]

23 minutes ago, jimbo123 said:

 

edit: actually looking at the definition of penalty area, it includes bodies of water even if not marked; so I guess it was actually declaring that area “not” a penalty area which required approval?

Precisely, that was the override of normal rules via a specially approved local rule.

[denkea]

On 6/11/2021 at 8:39 AM, davep043 said:

In the introduction to the Local Rules part of Committee Procedures, you find this:

That seems to limit the Committee's authority in the situations you describe.  However, the Committee marks the course, and defines the status of many things, which determines what your options might be under the Rules.  Some of the ways this might be done are discussed in  Model Local Rule F-1.

 

So a Committee could define tree roots as GUR, for instance, and work within the Rules.  Or they could use MLR F-9 to address roots.  They could define the bunkers (or specific bunkers) as GUR, and/or as part of the General Area (Model Local Rule C-4), but they can't use a Local Rule to extend embedded ball relief for a ball that's not in the General Area.  They can define paved cart paths as Integral Objects (as they do with  the paved roads on the Old Course).  

 

In summary, most of your answers are in the part of the Rules that you linked, you just needed to read them a little closer.

Dave ~~~~ You are correct.  I just needed to scroll down a bit further re roots.  At our club, looking down the fairway we have fairway and left of that we have rough and left of that we have a cart path and left of that we have more general area and a lot of trees.  Would it be ok for the course to extend the relief to that area?  

If they deem it GUR does it have to marked to be GUR?  

 

"“If a player’s ball is in the general area and there is interference from exposed tree roots that are in a part of the general area cut to fairway height or less [or in the rough within specify number of club-lengths of the edge of the ground cut to fairway height or less] [or in the first cut of the rough], the tree roots are treated as ground under repair. The player may take free relief under Rule 16.1b.

 

 

[2bGood]

On 6/11/2021 at 5:30 PM, bcski said:

Wow, just wow...Tell you what I will call 908-326-1850 Monday - as all of you surely know - this is the main number to the usga.

 

I will pose the following question:  Do you have legally binding contracts with courses in the U.S that they must follow the usga's rules of golf?  

 

I will report back the name of the individuals I speak to.

 

Will that suffice as evidence that there is no legal way for the usga to hold courses accountable??

I think you are trying to be silly, but for the record if a golf course, golf club or training facility does become a member in the USGA (or another national body) they do have to sign a contract that they will uphold the bylaws and rules of the USGA as part of the membership agreement. Not upholding the rules can mean losing your membership. 

In addition you have to sign further legal agreements to provide handicapping services at your club/course. Here is the current agreement you must enter into: handicap agreement

This agreement legally binds your club to do many things including comply with all requirements in the Rules of Handicapping and Committee Guide Book including ensure the members play by the Rules of Golf.

 

You are correct though, anyone can open a golf course and do what they like, but if they do decide to become a member of the USGA they enter in to legal responsibilities to follow the rules of golf including not creating unapproved local rules. 

 

Having signed these agreements and dealt with the ruling bodies on these matters, I will say there posture is to be educational if you get things wrong rather than penal. I would assume though if you flagrantly decided to not follow rules and refused to correct it they would pull your membership eventually. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by 2bGood