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Hey Guys, real quick --Have a tourney tomorrow and i'm going to put in play a driver that i fear MIGHT have a structural issue (
https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1817801-pin-hole-crack-in-driver-face-question/)

 

 

How do i approach this?

 

1) Am i allowed to sub it out if it becomes noticeably defective (and my playing partners agree on this)

2) Can i sub it out for a different brand of driver?  (My backup driver is either an Epic SZ or a Radspeed XB)

Callaway Epic Subzero 9 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Callaway Epic Subzero 13 w/Matrix Black Tie 80

Titleist TS3 20 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges w/ Modus 130

SGC #002 Flow Neck 385g

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Let's look at what the Rules say - Rule 4.1b(3): (3) No Replacing Lost or Damaged Clubs. If a player started with 14 clubs or added clubs up to the limit of 14 and then loses or damages a c

It's up to the committee to agree with you.  Your partners or FC don't get a vote. They can protest if they don't like it but they don't get to decide. 

But the club isn't damaged going into the round.  Randomly noticing a small spec in the face but there is zero evidence that anything is compromised.  The damage would occur during the round when/if i

Just go with it.  If you haven't seen or noticed anything different with your ball flight then I wouldn't really worry about it.  I've cracked quite a few heads and I've always noticed the ball flight and trajectory would start doing all kinds of odd things on the course.  I learned after a while that if the ball starts being REALLY erratic things from one hole to the next, I check the face and, usually, it's cracked.  Have your backup in the car just incase. 

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4 minutes ago, Rosco1216 said:

Just go with it.  If you haven't seen or noticed anything different with your ball flight then I wouldn't really worry about it.  I've cracked quite a few heads and I've always noticed the ball flight and trajectory would start doing all kinds of odd things on the course.  I learned after a while that if the ball starts being REALLY erratic things from one hole to the next, I check the face and, usually, it's cracked.  Have your backup in the car just incase. 

 

That's the goal yeah, i love the Mavrik so i want to use it. I have a RadSpeed XB as a backup. I wasn't sure if legally i was allowed to swap that in in the face explodes on like the 3rd hole or something

Callaway Epic Subzero 9 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Callaway Epic Subzero 13 w/Matrix Black Tie 80

Titleist TS3 20 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges w/ Modus 130

SGC #002 Flow Neck 385g

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From the USGA website:

 

New Rule: Under Rule 4.1:

  • A player is not allowed to replace a damaged club, except when it is damaged during the round by an outside influence or natural forces or by someone other than the player or his or her caddie.

 

You can only replace it if it is damaged during the round. You couldn't start the round with a damaged/broken club and then decide halfway through that you now want to replace it. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

From the USGA website:

 

New Rule: Under Rule 4.1:

  • A player is not allowed to replace a damaged club, except when it is damaged during the round by an outside influence or natural forces or by someone other than the player or his or her caddie.

 

You can only replace it if it is damaged during the round. You couldn't start the round with a damaged/broken club and then decide halfway through that you now want to replace it. 

 

 

 

I understand that part --What i can't say for sure right now is IF it's damaged. It is working well, and there's a pinhole type mark in the face.

 

If for say the first 6-7 holes it's fine, and then on 8 i take a swing and the face noticeably caves...Isn't that up for interpretation that it was "damaged" during the round for example?

Callaway Epic Subzero 9 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Callaway Epic Subzero 13 w/Matrix Black Tie 80

Titleist TS3 20 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges w/ Modus 130

SGC #002 Flow Neck 385g

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5 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

From the USGA website:

 

New Rule: Under Rule 4.1:

  • A player is not allowed to replace a damaged club, except when it is damaged during the round by an outside influence or natural forces or by someone other than the player or his or her caddie.

 

You can only replace it if it is damaged during the round. You couldn't start the round with a damaged/broken club and then decide halfway through that you now want to replace it. 

 

 

But the club isn't damaged going into the round.  Randomly noticing a small spec in the face but there is zero evidence that anything is compromised.  The damage would occur during the round when/if it cracks.

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TSI3 @ 7.25* - Ventus black 7x
G410 hybrid @ 16* - Hzdrus black 85x
Callaway Apex UT 20* - RIP 100x
Honma 737v 4-P - Modus 120tx
RTX Zipcore 52* & 56* - X100

Scotty Cameron Catalina Two



 

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Let's look at what the Rules say -

Rule 4.1b(3):

(3) No Replacing Lost or Damaged Clubs. If a player started with 14 clubs or added clubs up to the limit of 14 and then loses or damages a club during the round or while play is stopped under Rule 5.7a, the player must not replace it with another club.

Exception - Replacing Damaged Club When Player Did Not Cause Damage: If a player’s club is damaged during the round (including while play is stopped under Rule 5.7a) (see Rule 4.1a(2)) by an outside influence or natural forces or by any person other than the player or his or her caddie:

  • The player may replace the damaged club with any club under Rule 4.1b(4).

  • But when the player does so, the player must immediately take the damaged club out of play, using the procedure in Rule 4.1c(1).

There was a Clarification added to the Rules in April, 2019 which introduced Model Local Rule G-9, essentially allowing replacement of a club which is "broken or significantly damaged" during the round, excluding damage caused by abuse.  It also has an Exception, which states, "A club face or clubhead is not 'broken or significantly damaged' solely because it is cracked."

 

The moral of the story - if Model Local Rule G-9 is not in effect, a damaged club cannot be replaced, and, even if G-9 is in effect, replaced for a cracked clubhead is not permitted.

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Wouldn't article G9 allow replacement of a club if it's significantly damaged or cracked? That's what the article reads

 

However it gets really murky when it says that cracked doesn't necessarily mean significantly damaged....

 

This is very confusing

Callaway Epic Subzero 9 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Callaway Epic Subzero 13 w/Matrix Black Tie 80

Titleist TS3 20 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges w/ Modus 130

SGC #002 Flow Neck 385g

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The answer, of course, is to conspire with a fellow competitor.

 

If you notice something's not right with your driver on the third or fourth hole, flash the agreed upon sign, and fellow competitor will "accidentally" run over it with a golf cart. 

 

Problem solved! 😀 

Cleveland Launcher HB 10.5* - Stock Miyazaki C. Kua 50 Stiff
Callaway Diablo Octane Tour 13* - Aldila NV 75 Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour 15* - Accra Dymatch M5 75
Mizuno F-50 18* - Stock Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour Hybrid 21* - Aldila NV 85 Stiff
Callaway RAZR Tour Hybrid 24* - Stock XStiff
5 - PW Cleveland CG7 Tour Black Pearl - DGSL S300
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6 minutes ago, jholz said:

The answer, of course, is to conspire with a fellow competitor.

 

If you notice something's not right with your driver on the third or fourth hole, flash the agreed upon sign, and fellow competitor will "accidentally" run over it with a golf cart. 

 

Problem solved! 😀 

 

I'm gonna have my friend run out in a bear costume and maul me!

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Callaway Epic Subzero 9 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Callaway Epic Subzero 13 w/Matrix Black Tie 80

Titleist TS3 20 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges w/ Modus 130

SGC #002 Flow Neck 385g

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4 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I'm gonna have my friend run out in a bear costume and maul me!

 

Now, that's an idea!

Cleveland Launcher HB 10.5* - Stock Miyazaki C. Kua 50 Stiff
Callaway Diablo Octane Tour 13* - Aldila NV 75 Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour 15* - Accra Dymatch M5 75
Mizuno F-50 18* - Stock Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour Hybrid 21* - Aldila NV 85 Stiff
Callaway RAZR Tour Hybrid 24* - Stock XStiff
5 - PW Cleveland CG7 Tour Black Pearl - DGSL S300
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 50* DG Wedge
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 54* DG Wedge
Callaway X-Series JAWS Slate CC 58* Stock Wedge
Odyssey White Ice #7 - Golf Pride Oversize

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14 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

Wouldn't article G9 allow replacement of a club if it's significantly damaged or cracked? That's what the article reads

 

However it gets really murky when it says that cracked doesn't necessarily mean significantly damaged....

 

This is very confusing

Not sure what article you are reading, but it may have errors.

Here is the Clarification:

Model Local Rule G-9:

1. Local Rule G-9 for Replacement of Club that is Broken or Significantly Damaged:

Model Local Rule G-9

“Rule 4.1b(3) is modified in this way:

If a player’s club is “broken or significantly damaged” during the round by the player or caddie, except in cases of abuse, the player may replace the club with any club under Rule 4.1b(4).

When replacing a club, the player must immediately take the broken or significantly damaged club out of play, using the procedure in Rule 4.1c(1).

For the purposes of this Local Rule:

    - A club is “broken or significantly damaged” when:

➢ the shaft breaks into pieces, splinters or is bent (but not when the shaft is only dented)

➢ the club face impact area is visibly deformed (but not when the club face is only scratched)

➢ the clubhead is visibly and significantly deformed

➢ the clubhead is detached or loose from the shaft, or

➢ the grip is loose.

Exception: A club face or clubhead is not “broken or significantly damaged” solely because it is cracked.

Penalty for Breach of Local Rule – See Rule 4.1b.” (Added 4/2019)

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1 minute ago, rogolf said:

Not sure what article you are reading, but it may have errors.

Here is the Clarification:

Model Local Rule G-9:

1. Local Rule G-9 for Replacement of Club that is Broken or Significantly Damaged:

Model Local Rule G-9

“Rule 4.1b(3) is modified in this way:

If a player’s club is “broken or significantly damaged” during the round by the player or caddie, except in cases of abuse, the player may replace the club with any club under Rule 4.1b(4).

When replacing a club, the player must immediately take the broken or significantly damaged club out of play, using the procedure in Rule 4.1c(1).

For the purposes of this Local Rule:

    - A club is “broken or significantly damaged” when:

➢ the shaft breaks into pieces, splinters or is bent (but not when the shaft is only dented)

➢ the club face impact area is visibly deformed (but not when the club face is only scratched)

➢ the clubhead is visibly and significantly deformed

➢ the clubhead is detached or loose from the shaft, or

➢ the grip is loose.

Exception: A club face or clubhead is not “broken or significantly damaged” solely because it is cracked.

Penalty for Breach of Local Rule – See Rule 4.1b.” (Added 4/2019)

 

That does clarify it thanks ---If the face were to cave---That would definitely be "visibly deformed"

 

OK i get it

Callaway Epic Subzero 9 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Callaway Epic Subzero 13 w/Matrix Black Tie 80

Titleist TS3 20 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges w/ Modus 130

SGC #002 Flow Neck 385g

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8 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

That does clarify it thanks ---If the face were to cave---That would definitely be "visibly deformed"

 

OK i get it

 

This is interesting. If the face is cracked - no replace. BUT, if the face is cracked AND visibly deformed - replace.

 

Oh my. What does visibly mean in this context when the face is already cracked...?

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40 minutes ago, rogolf said:

There was a Clarification added to the Rules in April, 2019 which introduced Model Local Rule G-9, essentially allowing replacement of a club which is "broken or significantly damaged" during the round, excluding damage caused by abuse.  It also has an Exception, which states, "A club face or clubhead is not 'broken or significantly damaged' solely because it is cracked."

 

 

I may have pointed this out earlier when this particular issue was brought up on this forum before but I find it bizarre that a driver with face visibly cracked, that is broken and unable to sustain the forces of the impact with a ball, is not regarded as damaged to the extent of being unfit for play.

 

That broken face might travel with the speed of 120 mph and collision with a ball with that kind of speed just might shatter the entire clubhead spreading splinters all across the perimeter possibly injuring people close by.

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15 minutes ago, limegreengent said:

Common Guys

No need to result in any shenanigans, conspiracies or anything underhanded.

Just start with 13 clubs or put both drivers in the bag to make up your 14.😇😇

 

That's also a good idea. I don't use my 56 wedge a lot so i may carry 2 drivers and discard a wedge

Callaway Epic Subzero 9 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Callaway Epic Subzero 13 w/Matrix Black Tie 80

Titleist TS3 20 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges w/ Modus 130

SGC #002 Flow Neck 385g

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2 hours ago, Abh159 said:

From the USGA website:

 

New Rule: Under Rule 4.1:

  • A player is not allowed to replace a damaged club, except when it is damaged during the round by an outside influence or natural forces or by someone other than the player or his or her caddie.

 

You can only replace it if it is damaged during the round. You couldn't start the round with a damaged/broken club and then decide halfway through that you now want to replace it. 

 

Read the part after the bold, you can only replace a club if its damaged by something other than the player or his caddie.  If it breaks in the normal course of play, due to the player hitting the ball, you may not replace it unless the Local Rule is in effect.

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3 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

Hey Guys, real quick --Have a tourney tomorrow and i'm going to put in play a driver that i fear MIGHT have a structural issue (
https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1817801-pin-hole-crack-in-driver-face-question/)

 

 

How do i approach this?

 

1) Am i allowed to sub it out if it becomes noticeably defective (and my playing partners agree on this)

2) Can i sub it out for a different brand of driver?  (My backup driver is either an Epic SZ or a Radspeed XB)

It's up to the committee to agree with you.  Your partners or FC don't get a vote. They can protest if they don't like it but they don't get to decide. 

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Too late now, but could you have called Callaway customer service and explained what happened? I had a Ping driver break/crack the day before a tournament. They had me drive to a PGA superstore and pick up a new head while I was on the phone with them. 

 

Hopefully it's nothing to worry about...... and you don't stand over every tee shot expecting a "catastrophic miss".  LOL!

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