Seller backing out to sell to someone else.

[nickosnickos]

 

EDIT: I tried sending the money with my parents' paypal which they used all the time and later reimbursed them and it worked. I made my paypal a week ago to send/receive money for the WRX forum so this was completely on me. Didn't know there would be an issue with new accounts

 

Today an issue occurred where the seller refused to sell the putter to me because the money i sent through paypal G&S was pending. He asked me why it was pending, I told him I had no idea and he immediately sold the putter to someone else. I was pretty upset by that and did some digging to find out that : "

If a payment you sent is pending or unclaimed, it means the recipient hasn’t received or hasn’t accepted the payment yet.  

A payment will be pending or unclaimed if:

• It was sent to an email address or phone number that isn’t registered to a verified PayPal account. In this case, you’ll be able to cancel the payment. Go to your Activity, find the payment and hit Cancel.
• The recipient has opted not to automatically accept some payments. These could be payments not in their preferred currency, or from buyers with unconfirmed addresses. In these cases, the option to cancel the payment won’t be available in your Activity. The recipient needs to accept or deny the payment.

We automatically cancel pending or unclaimed payments after 30 days and send the money back to its original source. Refunds to bank accounts may take up to 5 days, while refunds to credit or debit cards may take up to 30 days. "

 

So this issue clearly could not have been on my end. Earlier today, I sold my second item here on my first post and encountered the same issue. I simply switched from PC paypal to my phone's paypal and was able to accept the money. The seller did not give me any time to resolve this issue (even though there was nothing to be resolved as the payment had in fact been sent) and told me I was being sketchy due to the fact that I am a new member, saying"this is not how we conduct business around here", even though everything I did was within the rules. Pretty upset that I lost out on a great item because of this.

Can provide payment proof and anything else that is necessary. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by nickosnickos

[b.helts]

The second point says “buyers with unconfirmed addresses”

 

Is your PayPal address confirmed? I don’t see that this is “clearly” not on your end. It could have been. 
 

That being said, there aren’t any guarantees or contracts here, so you have no recourse. What do you want or what are you trying to get out of this thread?

[nickosnickos]

I just wanted to see if a moderator could help me out. I've sent money on my pp countless times. My address is confirmed

[b.helts]

OK. I get it, confirmed address, so who knows what happened?
 

But are you hoping a moderator is going to force this person to ship you the club? I assume you got your PayPal funds back or they never cleared?

 

I know it sucks but it’s not like this is a heavily regulated market. No shoes, no shirt, no service. Sellers have no contractual obligation to sell anything to anyone at any time. Is it a bit of a db move? Sure, but there aren’t rules against being a db. 

[nickosnickos]

I understand that, I just thought moderators were able to intervene. And another problem is that he hasn’t/ says he “can’t” refund me so I just have a lump of money that’s sitting there for 30 days until PayPal refunds it automatically. Thanks anyway. 

[rp4golf]

1 - This isn't a pay-for site like eBay or something, so moderators are not going to intervene. It's not their job.
2 -  As b.helts said above, people change their mind, perhaps they got a better offer.
3 - You've made 5 total posts on GolfWRX, 3 in this thread alone. It makes it appear that you only joined this site to sell stuff, and also makes sellers very leery. And then when you started making demands of the seller it could have made them think you're shady.
4 - Your beef is with PayPal. You don't have the item, and you don't have current access to the money. File the required paperwork with PP and be done with it.

[straightshot7]

On 6/12/2021 at 12:40 AM, rp4golf said:

1 - This isn't a pay-for site like eBay or something, so moderators are not going to intervene. It's not their job.
2 -  As b.helts said above, people change their mind, perhaps they got a better offer.
3 - You've made 5 total posts on GolfWRX, 3 in this thread alone. It makes it appear that you only joined this site to sell stuff, and also makes sellers very leery. And then when you started making demands of the seller it could have made them think you're shady.
4 - Your beef is with PayPal. You don't have the item, and you don't have current access to the money. File the required paperwork with PP and be done with it.

If the OP’s story is accurate, I think he has a legitimate beef with the seller, too.

 

it is not fair practice to accept a payment (if it was in the agreed upon amount) and then sell the item to someone else. Just because the payment says “pending”, potentially not because of the buyer’s fault. 

 

that’s a situation where you work with the buyer to get it resolved. You don’t just blow them off and make them wait 30 days to get their money back (not sure if seller is doing that, but that is OP’s story)

 

imagine if this was common..that as a buyer you just have to send money and Hope the seller doesn’t change their mind? 
 

obviously his beef is not just with PayPal. He kind of got hosed here.

 

having said that, yeah, there’s not much you can do in these cases and you can just block that seller for the future.

 

Edit: After hearing the seller's story, obviously I change my opinion. If the seller's story is accurate, buyer is not reasonable in expecting to see proof of shipment before funds are released. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by straightshot7

[straightshot7]

Also, invite the seller so they can give their side of the story if they want to. 
 

you should be able to @ their username 

[larryd3]

OK, I'm the seller.  He sent me funds that are showing as pending in my PayPal account.  He also stated in a PM that "you have to ship it out first to the address I have on PayPal, then attach the tracking number and then you will get it in a couple days" Then he says, "in order for a paypal business transaction to process you will need to provide shipping proof"   I have been working with PayPal and they said he sent me funds by echeck and if won't clear till 6/21.  I tried to get PayPal to refund or cancel the transaction and they won't do it until the funds release which is 6/21 per them.  So if the funds actually release into my account I will refund him immediately.  I had a bunch of people wanting to purchase the putter and I wasn't going to wait over a week to see if the funds will clear into my account and potentially lose the other sale(s).  I sold it for the exact same amount to the purchaser as what he paid.  Also this person joined the forum the day before so no history with him here.  I got very nervous and as soon as I figured out what was going on with PayPal, I alerted him and cancelled the transaction.  Since I never received any money there was no sale to him.  I've been on here many years with all positive feedback.  I did bring a moderator into the PM thread first thing Saturday morning, this all happened Friday evening, to be sure I was not out of line.  I have not heard about any issues from what I did from the moderator.  Sorry if the buyer is upset but I'm not sending out an expensive putter without money in hand.  And I'm happy to answer any other questions.  

[PearSorbet17]

Buyer is a clown for the statement in bold. 

[DroppingBombs]

2 hours ago, larryd3 said:

OK, I'm the seller.  He sent me funds that are showing as pending in my PayPal account.  He also stated in a PM that "you have to ship it out first to the address I have on PayPal, then attach the tracking number and then you will get it in a couple days" Then he says, "in order for a paypal business transaction to process you will need to provide shipping proof"   I have been working with PayPal and they said he sent me funds by echeck and if won't clear till 6/21.  I tried to get PayPal to refund or cancel the transaction and they won't do it until the funds release which is 6/21 per them.  So if the funds actually release into my account I will refund him immediately.  I had a bunch of people wanting to purchase the putter and I wasn't going to wait over a week to see if the funds will clear into my account and potentially lose the other sale(s).  I sold it for the exact same amount to the purchaser as what he paid.  Also this person joined the forum the day before so no history with him here.  I got very nervous and as soon as I figured out what was going on with PayPal, I alerted him and cancelled the transaction.  Since I never received any money there was no sale to him.  I've been on here many years with all positive feedback.  I did bring a moderator into the PM thread first thing Saturday morning, this all happened Friday evening, to be sure I was not out of line.  I have not heard about any issues from what I did from the moderator.  Sorry if the buyer is upset but I'm not sending out an expensive putter without money in hand.  And I'm happy to answer any other questions.  

I think you are in the right, if buyer doesn’t know how to use PayPal correctly that’s on them. From the sound of it you avoided a shady situation and I would of done the same thing. 

[Krt22]

3 hours ago, larryd3 said:

OK, I'm the seller.  He sent me funds that are showing as pending in my PayPal account.  He also stated in a PM that "you have to ship it out first to the address I have on PayPal, then attach the tracking number and then you will get it in a couple days" Then he says, "in order for a paypal business transaction to process you will need to provide shipping proof"   I have been working with PayPal and they said he sent me funds by echeck and if won't clear till 6/21.  I tried to get PayPal to refund or cancel the transaction and they won't do it until the funds release which is 6/21 per them.  So if the funds actually release into my account I will refund him immediately.  I had a bunch of people wanting to purchase the putter and I wasn't going to wait over a week to see if the funds will clear into my account and potentially lose the other sale(s).  I sold it for the exact same amount to the purchaser as what he paid.  Also this person joined the forum the day before so no history with him here.  I got very nervous and as soon as I figured out what was going on with PayPal, I alerted him and cancelled the transaction.  Since I never received any money there was no sale to him.  I've been on here many years with all positive feedback.  I did bring a moderator into the PM thread first thing Saturday morning, this all happened Friday evening, to be sure I was not out of line.  I have not heard about any issues from what I did from the moderator.  Sorry if the buyer is upset but I'm not sending out an expensive putter without money in hand.  And I'm happy to answer any other questions.  

I likely would have done the same. I'm not shipping anything without cleared funds in my account, period. 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

Wow, totally different story compared to the buyer. Buyer is definitely in the wrong. 

[KC13]

OP, did you pay through a business account using eCheck?  If so, most people wait until the funds clear to ship.  

 

Moving forward, I would suggest using personal PayPal account connected to personal banking.  

 

Seller (IMO) is 100% OK to cancel the sale given payment was NOT actually received.  

 

- KC 

[mister2cool]

57 minutes ago, KC13 said:

OP, did you pay through a business account using eCheck?  If so, most people wait until the funds clear to ship.  

 

Moving forward, I would suggest using personal PayPal account connected to personal banking.  

 

Seller (IMO) is 100% OK to cancel the sale given payment was NOT actually received.  

 

- KC 

Business account or not, no one would or should be sending the item out before fund has cleared. For OP to make the kind of demand he did, I would have scratched the deal as well, and reported him as suspicious. 

[seus777]

Seller 100% in the right here. OP needs to move on.

[trilerian]

Wow...  The buyer did send payment, the buyer sent it as an echeck.  Should the buyer expect shipping before it clears? No.  But I wouldn't be very happy if I sent a payment to someone in a form they accepted, ie paypal, and the seller turned around and sold it to someone else because they didn't want to wait for the payment to clear...

 

I have sold quite a bit of stuff online, and a few times buyers have paid using echeck in paypal.  You wait for it to clear then ship the item out.   If you don't want to accept echecks, then say so in your description.  

 

Personally I think this is a fail on both parties.  

[Carolina Golfer 2]

5 hours ago, larryd3 said:

OK, I'm the seller.  He sent me funds that are showing as pending in my PayPal account.  He also stated in a PM that "you have to ship it out first to the address I have on PayPal, then attach the tracking number and then you will get it in a couple days" Then he says, "in order for a paypal business transaction to process you will need to provide shipping proof"   I have been working with PayPal and they said he sent me funds by echeck and if won't clear till 6/21.  I tried to get PayPal to refund or cancel the transaction and they won't do it until the funds release which is 6/21 per them.  So if the funds actually release into my account I will refund him immediately.  I had a bunch of people wanting to purchase the putter and I wasn't going to wait over a week to see if the funds will clear into my account and potentially lose the other sale(s).  I sold it for the exact same amount to the purchaser as what he paid.  Also this person joined the forum the day before so no history with him here.  I got very nervous and as soon as I figured out what was going on with PayPal, I alerted him and cancelled the transaction.  Since I never received any money there was no sale to him.  I've been on here many years with all positive feedback.  I did bring a moderator into the PM thread first thing Saturday morning, this all happened Friday evening, to be sure I was not out of line.  I have not heard about any issues from what I did from the moderator.  Sorry if the buyer is upset but I'm not sending out an expensive putter without money in hand.  And I'm happy to answer any other questions.  

I had a very similar situation a year or so ago with a buyer who used PayPal echeck. It made me uneasy--he was a new member also--we had a good dialogue back and forth via PM, he understood where I was coming from and understood me cancelling the sale.   He mentioned he had no other means than echeck--can't recall exactly why, but we both amicably called it off.   I was able to sell later that day via the standard paypal methods, and hope he eventually found a club. 

 

I'm with the seller here.  The OP should have used traditional paypal goods and services payment. 

[golffeen007]

5 hours ago, larryd3 said:

OK, I'm the seller.  He sent me funds that are showing as pending in my PayPal account.  He also stated in a PM that "you have to ship it out first to the address I have on PayPal, then attach the tracking number and then you will get it in a couple days" Then he says, "in order for a paypal business transaction to process you will need to provide shipping proof"   I have been working with PayPal and they said he sent me funds by echeck and if won't clear till 6/21.  I tried to get PayPal to refund or cancel the transaction and they won't do it until the funds release which is 6/21 per them.  So if the funds actually release into my account I will refund him immediately.  I had a bunch of people wanting to purchase the putter and I wasn't going to wait over a week to see if the funds will clear into my account and potentially lose the other sale(s).  I sold it for the exact same amount to the purchaser as what he paid.  Also this person joined the forum the day before so no history with him here.  I got very nervous and as soon as I figured out what was going on with PayPal, I alerted him and cancelled the transaction.  Since I never received any money there was no sale to him.  I've been on here many years with all positive feedback.  I did bring a moderator into the PM thread first thing Saturday morning, this all happened Friday evening, to be sure I was not out of line.  I have not heard about any issues from what I did from the moderator.  Sorry if the buyer is upset but I'm not sending out an expensive putter without money in hand.  And I'm happy to answer any other questions.  

Negative @nickosnickos . What if your check doesn't clear for some "odd reason"? No way should the seller ship anything until the eCheck clears and even eBay policy requests to wait until funds clear to ship with an eCheck.  You might want to include that your funds will be delayed a week or more on your future endeavors and see if the seller is good with that. 

[bvmagic]

This could have been a very different thread had the seller sent the item before the e-check cleared.  Not saying the buyer is out to get the seller, but I see too many new buyer / seller stories that don't end well on here.  I don't blame the seller from backing out of the sale to be cautious, especially when the buyer asked to ship before the e-check cleared.  Buyer should look into setting up their paypal to send payments instantly rather than the e-check to avoid this going forward.  

[larciel]

whoa.. eCheck is totally different story.

 

I've had instances where payment was sent but Paypal held the money until I ship to item and 1 day after delivery. I thought this was the case here but eCheck is WAY different story. 

 

 

[golffeen007]

On 6/11/2021 at 8:43 PM, nickosnickos said:

Today an issue occurred where the seller refused to sell the putter to me because the money i sent through paypal G&S was pending. He asked me why it was pending, I told him I had no idea and he immediately sold the putter to someone else. I was pretty upset by that and did some digging to find out that : "

If a payment you sent is pending or unclaimed, it means the recipient hasn’t received or hasn’t accepted the payment yet.  

A payment will be pending or unclaimed if:

• It was sent to an email address or phone number that isn’t registered to a verified PayPal account. In this case, you’ll be able to cancel the payment. Go to your Activity, find the payment and hit Cancel.
• The recipient has opted not to automatically accept some payments. These could be payments not in their preferred currency, or from buyers with unconfirmed addresses. In these cases, the option to cancel the payment won’t be available in your Activity. The recipient needs to accept or deny the payment.

We automatically cancel pending or unclaimed payments after 30 days and send the money back to its original source. Refunds to bank accounts may take up to 5 days, while refunds to credit or debit cards may take up to 30 days. "

 

So this issue clearly could not have been on my end. Earlier today, I sold my second item here on my first post and encountered the same issue. I simply switched from PC paypal to my phone's paypal and was able to accept the money. The seller did not give me any time to resolve this issue (even though there was nothing to be resolved as the payment had in fact been sent) and told me I was being sketchy due to the fact that I am a new member, saying"this is not how we conduct business around here", even though everything I did was within the rules. Pretty upset that I lost out on a great item because of this.

Can provide payment proof and anything else that is necessary. 

Were you not aware you sent payment via eCheck and do you even know what that is? Either the funds were not available in your account yet or you chose this form of payment? Too bad you missed out on the putter , but sometimes learning the hard way helps you. 

[nickosnickos]

11 hours ago, larryd3 said:

OK, I'm the seller.  He sent me funds that are showing as pending in my PayPal account.  He also stated in a PM that "you have to ship it out first to the address I have on PayPal, then attach the tracking number and then you will get it in a couple days" Then he says, "in order for a paypal business transaction to process you will need to provide shipping proof"   I have been working with PayPal and they said he sent me funds by echeck and if won't clear till 6/21.  I tried to get PayPal to refund or cancel the transaction and they won't do it until the funds release which is 6/21 per them.  So if the funds actually release into my account I will refund him immediately.  I had a bunch of people wanting to purchase the putter and I wasn't going to wait over a week to see if the funds will clear into my account and potentially lose the other sale(s).  I sold it for the exact same amount to the purchaser as what he paid.  Also this person joined the forum the day before so no history with him here.  I got very nervous and as soon as I figured out what was going on with PayPal, I alerted him and cancelled the transaction.  Since I never received any money there was no sale to him.  I've been on here many years with all positive feedback.  I did bring a moderator into the PM thread first thing Saturday morning, this all happened Friday evening, to be sure I was not out of line.  I have not heard about any issues from what I did from the moderator.  Sorry if the buyer is upset but I'm not sending out an expensive putter without money in hand.  And I'm happy to answer any other questions.  

I’m only saying that because that’s what PayPal was telling me. With my first 3-4 sales on here, I did not get the money until I provided proof of shipping. That is because I am a “new seller and need to establish positive sale _____ whatever” I was not trying to do anything shady and my money went thru yesterday actually. Im not sure why it seems like I was trying to pull a fast one considering the money was already sent and out of my account

[nickosnickos]

11 hours ago, larryd3 said:

OK, I'm the seller.  He sent me funds that are showing as pending in my PayPal account.  He also stated in a PM that "you have to ship it out first to the address I have on PayPal, then attach the tracking number and then you will get it in a couple days" Then he says, "in order for a paypal business transaction to process you will need to provide shipping proof"   I have been working with PayPal and they said he sent me funds by echeck and if won't clear till 6/21.  I tried to get PayPal to refund or cancel the transaction and they won't do it until the funds release which is 6/21 per them.  So if the funds actually release into my account I will refund him immediately.  I had a bunch of people wanting to purchase the putter and I wasn't going to wait over a week to see if the funds will clear into my account and potentially lose the other sale(s).  I sold it for the exact same amount to the purchaser as what he paid.  Also this person joined the forum the day before so no history with him here.  I got very nervous and as soon as I figured out what was going on with PayPal, I alerted him and cancelled the transaction.  Since I never received any money there was no sale to him.  I've been on here many years with all positive feedback.  I did bring a moderator into the PM thread first thing Saturday morning, this all happened Friday evening, to be sure I was not out of line.  I have not heard about any issues from what I did from the moderator.  Sorry if the buyer is upset but I'm not sending out an expensive putter without money in hand.  And I'm happy to answer any other questions.  

I have bought from respected people such as Will people’s for about 5 years now. Never a single issue with payment/paypal. I don’t gain anything from trying to scam you (clearly someone who has built a status on this page) while having some of my own s*** to sell. I don’t understand why you interpreted my statement(quoted from paypal and my payment) as me trying to pull a fast one. Either way, I would’ve even been willing to Venmo you/ cash app you if you had just told me. Again, no fair warning, and just calling me out for conducting shady business giving me 0 chance to explain my situation. 

[nickosnickos]

This post also wasn’t about me calling you out, considering I kept you anonymous until you chimed in. I was purely wondering if there was something that could’ve been done from a moderation side. Not pointing any fingers

[nickosnickos]

5 hours ago, larciel said:

whoa.. eCheck is totally different story.

 

I've had instances where payment was sent but Paypal held the money until I ship to item and 1 day after delivery. I thought this was the case here but eCheck is WAY different story. 

 

 

I’m confused. I didn’t know sending money straight from my bank account would result in an echeck. I have never bought G&s direct from the buyer, so I thought it wouldn’t be an issue. Should I do it by credit/debit card next time to avoid this? I don’t even know what an echeck really is tbh

[Bad9]

8 minutes ago, nickosnickos said:

I did not get the money until I provided proof of shipping. 

 

In 10+ years here I never heard this before ever.

[Bad9]

5 minutes ago, nickosnickos said:

I have bought from respected people such as Will people’s for about 5 years now. Never a single issue with payment/paypal. I don’t gain anything from trying to scam you (clearly someone who has built a status on this page) while having some of my own s*** to sell. I don’t understand why you interpreted my statement(quoted from paypal and my payment) as me trying to pull a fast one. Either way, I would’ve even been willing to Venmo you/ cash app you if you had just told me. Again, no fair warning, and just calling me out for conducting shady business giving me 0 chance to explain my situation. 

 

The part in bold is not helping your case. Venmo and other non PP are explicitly mentioned in the BST rules as a no-no.

[nickosnickos]

1 minute ago, Bad9 said:

 

In 10+ years here I never heard this before ever.

Why would I lie about that… I gain nothing from lying and like I said, I did not name drop him Bc I understand that this couldve been my error as well. 

[nickosnickos]

Just now, Bad9 said:

 

The part in bold is not helping your case. Venmo and other non PP are explicitly mentioned in the BST rules as a no-no.

Yes I know but I would’ve been willing to do so because this guy is clearly a reliable seller.