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Drilling out the bore in the tip of a graphite hybrid shaft to increase bore diameter to accept a brass tip weight


Rapidcat
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What’s the risk in shaft failure by doing this?


This is to build a shorter length shaft hybrid with the shaft being epoxied into a Titleist 818H adapter. Need to do all I can to get weight into the head to get the swing weight I want. Am doing the heaviest 20gr Surefit head weight and can add lead tape if I absolutely have to.


Brass tip weight stem diameter = 4.6mm (0.18") so will leave what visually will still be a thickish walls after drilling out the shaft bore a little, walls no thinner than for a fairway shaft from what I can tell.


Checked on the web and here and get minimal answers that say no danger and one the says if increasing the bore diameter in the shaft tip past where the adapter top is could add to shaft failure potential at that point.

 

I wish to put in a 10 gram brass tip weight which will mean it will go past the top of the adapter by 1.25 inches.

 

From what I can determine it should be ok but caution leads me to ask for some opinions from experienced club fitters.

 

Thanks for any responses.
Edit: it's an XCaliber stiff 80 gram hybrid shaft.

Edited by Rapidcat

Cobra F8+ 9° XCaliber 6+ S 45” //  Cobra F8 14.5° XCaliber FW S 43.25” //  Cobra F7 18.5° Aldila Tour Blue ATX85 S 42.5” // Srixon Z565 3-PW Nippon N.S. Pro 980GH DST S // Cleveland CBX 50.11 //  Cleveland RTX3 56.14 bent 55.13 //  Nike VR X3X Toe Sweep 58.10  //  Wilson Infinite The Bean 34" Super Stroke 2.0XL+//  Titleist Pro V1 //  McGregor Hybrid Stand/Cart Bag

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Edited by Rapidcat

Cobra F8+ 9° XCaliber 6+ S 45” //  Cobra F8 14.5° XCaliber FW S 43.25” //  Cobra F7 18.5° Aldila Tour Blue ATX85 S 42.5” // Srixon Z565 3-PW Nippon N.S. Pro 980GH DST S // Cleveland CBX 50.11 //  Cleveland RTX3 56.14 bent 55.13 //  Nike VR X3X Toe Sweep 58.10  //  Wilson Infinite The Bean 34" Super Stroke 2.0XL+//  Titleist Pro V1 //  McGregor Hybrid Stand/Cart Bag

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I've done it on a coupe set of Xcaliber iron shafts and have had no issues as the clubs are still win play here.

Ping G410 Plus 10.5°/Alta CB55 r flex, Maltby KE4 TC 5w/Xcaliber SL FW r flex, Maltby KE4 ST-H 3h/Xcaliber HY r flex, Maltby KE4 ST-H 4h/Xcaliber HY r flex, Maltby KE4 Tour TC 5h/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex, Maltby KE4 Tour+ 6-G/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex, Maltby Tricept 54° and 58°/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex, Mizuno Bettinardi C06

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2 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

What’s the risk in shaft failure by doing this?


This is to build a shorter length shaft hybrid with the shaft being epoxied into a Titleist 818H adapter. Need to do all I can to get weight into the head to get the swing weight I want. Am doing the heaviest 20gr Surefit head weight and can add lead tape if I absolutely have to.


Brass tip weight stem diameter = 4.6mm (0.18") so will leave what visually will still be a thickish walls after drilling out the shaft bore a little, walls no thinner than for a fairway shaft from what I can tell.


Checked on the web and here and get minimal answers that say no danger and one the says if increasing the bore diameter in the shaft tip past where the adapter top is could add to shaft failure potential at that point.

 

I wish to put in a 10 gram brass tip weight which will mean it will go past the top of the adapter by 1.25 inches.

 

From what I can determine it should be ok but caution leads me to ask for some opinions from experienced club fitters.

 

Thanks for any responses.
Edit: it's an XCaliber stiff 80 gram hybrid shaft.

Not a good idea. Use tungsten powder or tungsten tip weights that are designed for graphite. 

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Titleist TSi2 21 degree w/Accra TZ6 75 M5 

Srixon ZX5 4-6 w/KBS TGI 110 (SS 1x) @1/2" over standard

Srixon ZX7 7-PW w/KBS TGI 110 (SS 1x) @1/2" over standard
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1 hour ago, Bad9 said:

I've done it on a coupe set of Xcaliber iron shafts and have had no issues as the clubs are still win play here.

Tks - what weight tip weights did you use?

Cobra F8+ 9° XCaliber 6+ S 45” //  Cobra F8 14.5° XCaliber FW S 43.25” //  Cobra F7 18.5° Aldila Tour Blue ATX85 S 42.5” // Srixon Z565 3-PW Nippon N.S. Pro 980GH DST S // Cleveland CBX 50.11 //  Cleveland RTX3 56.14 bent 55.13 //  Nike VR X3X Toe Sweep 58.10  //  Wilson Infinite The Bean 34" Super Stroke 2.0XL+//  Titleist Pro V1 //  McGregor Hybrid Stand/Cart Bag

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1 hour ago, rp4golf said:

Seems a surefire way to ruin a graphite shaft, and directly lead to its early demise by compromising the interior walls of the shaft.

Brass tipweights are more intended for use with steel shafts, whereas tungsten powder (or graphite shaft specific tipweights) would seem to be a more prudent move.

These are the specific graphite shaft tip weights thought - the long thin ones not the thicker, shorter ones for steel shafts.

Cobra F8+ 9° XCaliber 6+ S 45” //  Cobra F8 14.5° XCaliber FW S 43.25” //  Cobra F7 18.5° Aldila Tour Blue ATX85 S 42.5” // Srixon Z565 3-PW Nippon N.S. Pro 980GH DST S // Cleveland CBX 50.11 //  Cleveland RTX3 56.14 bent 55.13 //  Nike VR X3X Toe Sweep 58.10  //  Wilson Infinite The Bean 34" Super Stroke 2.0XL+//  Titleist Pro V1 //  McGregor Hybrid Stand/Cart Bag

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1 hour ago, mcounci2 said:

I'd rather turn down the tip weight

If you turn down the tip weight, don't you end up decreasing its weight?

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Cobra F8+ 9° XCaliber 6+ S 45” //  Cobra F8 14.5° XCaliber FW S 43.25” //  Cobra F7 18.5° Aldila Tour Blue ATX85 S 42.5” // Srixon Z565 3-PW Nippon N.S. Pro 980GH DST S // Cleveland CBX 50.11 //  Cleveland RTX3 56.14 bent 55.13 //  Nike VR X3X Toe Sweep 58.10  //  Wilson Infinite The Bean 34" Super Stroke 2.0XL+//  Titleist Pro V1 //  McGregor Hybrid Stand/Cart Bag

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Thanks all so far for your replies, got my mind thinking.....

Cobra F8+ 9° XCaliber 6+ S 45” //  Cobra F8 14.5° XCaliber FW S 43.25” //  Cobra F7 18.5° Aldila Tour Blue ATX85 S 42.5” // Srixon Z565 3-PW Nippon N.S. Pro 980GH DST S // Cleveland CBX 50.11 //  Cleveland RTX3 56.14 bent 55.13 //  Nike VR X3X Toe Sweep 58.10  //  Wilson Infinite The Bean 34" Super Stroke 2.0XL+//  Titleist Pro V1 //  McGregor Hybrid Stand/Cart Bag

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3 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

What’s the risk in shaft failure by doing this?


This is to build a shorter length shaft hybrid with the shaft being epoxied into a Titleist 818H adapter. Need to do all I can to get weight into the head to get the swing weight I want. Am doing the heaviest 20gr Surefit head weight and can add lead tape if I absolutely have to.


Brass tip weight stem diameter = 4.6mm (0.18") so will leave what visually will still be a thickish walls after drilling out the shaft bore a little, walls no thinner than for a fairway shaft from what I can tell.

 

I frequently go to 11/64" for the brass tip weights available from Billy Bob's golf.   Never had an issue in over 10 years.   Most of what is being drilled out is epoxy, not graphite so little effect on the structural integrity of the shaft.   Just one word of caution - don't let the drill bit get too hot.  Don't try to do it all at once, work you're way up in diameter instead.  Billy Bob's they also have smaller diameter version available but it only goes up to 8 gm, not 10 gm.  Of course you could make up the extra with some lead tape on the head.

 

 

Quote

Checked on the web and here and get minimal answers that say no danger and one the says if increasing the bore diameter in the shaft tip past where the adapter top is could add to shaft failure potential at that point.

 

The bit about going past the top of the hosel is a myth that's been around a long time.   Not an issue.

 

1 hour ago, liveagua said:

Use tungsten powder or tungsten tip weights that are designed for graphite. 

 

Tungsten/lead powder and cork in a graphite shaft is not a good idea.   The id is too small to get an effective amount close to the head and also difficult to find a good size cork that doesn't add stress to the shaft from the inside.  And the rubber tungsten tip weights take up a lot of space in the hosel which weakens the glue joint unless you have a deep bore to work with.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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Just now, Duffer222 said:

Shouldn’t need to bore out the tips if they’re the long thin ones for graphite.  Done many shafts with them.

These hybrid shafts have very small tip bores, smaller than the typical long thin graphite weights diameter that I've used many times with graphite fairway shafts.

Cobra F8+ 9° XCaliber 6+ S 45” //  Cobra F8 14.5° XCaliber FW S 43.25” //  Cobra F7 18.5° Aldila Tour Blue ATX85 S 42.5” // Srixon Z565 3-PW Nippon N.S. Pro 980GH DST S // Cleveland CBX 50.11 //  Cleveland RTX3 56.14 bent 55.13 //  Nike VR X3X Toe Sweep 58.10  //  Wilson Infinite The Bean 34" Super Stroke 2.0XL+//  Titleist Pro V1 //  McGregor Hybrid Stand/Cart Bag

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5 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

If you turn down the tip weight, don't you end up decreasing its weight?

Yes, but I can't imagine it would be a significant amount.  You could always start with a heavier weight than you need, sand it down, and trim the end to get to the weight you need

 

Side note- where did you come by heavy weights for 818h2's???

 

I actually recently built up a 3 and 4 818h2 for myself at iron length. Did lead tip weights and made my own head weights from brass round stock wrapped in lead tape as I'm unable to find the heavy titleist head weights and don't want to pay $150 for the set.  

Edited by mcounci2
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0.175" diameter weights I've used with the 11/64" drill bit.

https://www.billybobsgolf.com/product/brass-swingweights-for-graphite-shafts/

 

0.149" diameter weights

https://www.billybobsgolf.com/product/brass-swingweight-for-heavy-graphite-shafts-with-small-mandrel-hole/

 

 

Also, if the fit is not tight, make sure to pad to prevent rattling.    Best not to put glue in the hosel bore when gluing up the shaft.   The biggest problem with these weights is if they get glued inside of the shaft (from excess epoxy) they are a PITA (if not impossible) to remove from the shaft if you ever want to reuse the shaft with a different amount of tip weight. They can't be drilled out like the lead or tungsten rubber tip weights.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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Just now, mcounci2 said:

Yes, but I can't imagine it would be a significant amount.  You could always start with a heavier weight than you need, sand it down, and trim the end to get to the weight you need

 

Side note- where did you come by heavy weights for 818h2's???

Cheers - re turning down the weights, I really want them to be 10 grams which is the heaviest I can find, so I will end up with say 8 grams if I turn them down a little.

 

Hear is the listing from ebay for the 20 gram weight: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/323871873427?var=512897698371

 

Cobra F8+ 9° XCaliber 6+ S 45” //  Cobra F8 14.5° XCaliber FW S 43.25” //  Cobra F7 18.5° Aldila Tour Blue ATX85 S 42.5” // Srixon Z565 3-PW Nippon N.S. Pro 980GH DST S // Cleveland CBX 50.11 //  Cleveland RTX3 56.14 bent 55.13 //  Nike VR X3X Toe Sweep 58.10  //  Wilson Infinite The Bean 34" Super Stroke 2.0XL+//  Titleist Pro V1 //  McGregor Hybrid Stand/Cart Bag

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Thanks Stuart - as always👍

Cobra F8+ 9° XCaliber 6+ S 45” //  Cobra F8 14.5° XCaliber FW S 43.25” //  Cobra F7 18.5° Aldila Tour Blue ATX85 S 42.5” // Srixon Z565 3-PW Nippon N.S. Pro 980GH DST S // Cleveland CBX 50.11 //  Cleveland RTX3 56.14 bent 55.13 //  Nike VR X3X Toe Sweep 58.10  //  Wilson Infinite The Bean 34" Super Stroke 2.0XL+//  Titleist Pro V1 //  McGregor Hybrid Stand/Cart Bag

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2 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

Tks - what weight tip weights did you use?

Ive used both the brass and lead ones for graphite shafts.

Ping G410 Plus 10.5°/Alta CB55 r flex, Maltby KE4 TC 5w/Xcaliber SL FW r flex, Maltby KE4 ST-H 3h/Xcaliber HY r flex, Maltby KE4 ST-H 4h/Xcaliber HY r flex, Maltby KE4 Tour TC 5h/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex, Maltby KE4 Tour+ 6-G/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex, Maltby Tricept 54° and 58°/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex, Mizuno Bettinardi C06

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I've been using these for years. Solves all the tip weight problems. Also, having a tip weight past the hossel is a real issue for fast or steep hitters. I use it on my 3 hybrid as well as irons. (can find hybrid pic).

 

15g copper

14g brass

4.5g aluminum

 

Screenshot_20210614-085843.jpg

Screenshot_20210614-090040.jpg

IMG_20200824_171042_Bokeh.jpg

Callaway Rogue Sub Zero, Rogue Silver 70g
Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 3W, Rogue Black 80g
Nike VR Pro Combo 3-PW XP115
Nike VR 54/58/62 XP115
Evnroll ER2
TP5X

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17 minutes ago, Hack Daddy said:

 Also, having a tip weight past the hossel is a real issue for fast or steep hitters.

 

Those metal ferrules are going to cause as much, if not more stress on the shafts as tip weights would.   So if those ferrules are not causing any problems,  the tip weights certainly wouldn't.

Edited by Stuart_G
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2 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Those metal ferrules are going to cause as much, if not more stress on the shafts as tip weights would.   So if those ferrules are not causing any problems,  the tip weights certainly wouldn't.

 

It's not about stress on the shaft, it's about breaking the tip weight due to the flex point at the hossel tip. I've had at length discussions with Billy Bobs and ADS - both agree that the tip weight will break if above the hossel, when the player is of decent speed or steep.

IMG_20200729_100845.jpg

IMG_20200810_211114.jpg

IMG_20200729_100737.jpg

Callaway Rogue Sub Zero, Rogue Silver 70g
Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 3W, Rogue Black 80g
Nike VR Pro Combo 3-PW XP115
Nike VR 54/58/62 XP115
Evnroll ER2
TP5X

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2 minutes ago, Hack Daddy said:

 

It's not about stress on the shaft, it's about breaking the tip weight due to the flex point at the hossel tip. I've had at length discussions with Billy Bobs and ADS - both agree that the tip weight will break if above the hossel, when the player is of decent speed or steep.

 

 

Interesting.   But based on what you're describing, the highest stress (and therefore the break) on the tip weight should be at the point where it intersects the top of the hosel, not at the bottom where the the picture is showing the break.   Just a guess, but that looks more like a torsional stress fracture (not longitudinal bending).

 

What's the diameter of that tip weight?

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These are my super short ZX7 / ZX5 build with Steelfiber i110cw.

This ended up being a bad head + shaft choice for a short build as the Srixon heads are light ( compared to my typical Mizunos ) and the i110cw are butt heavy / counter balanced.  My simple guess on the ZX's being 2'ish grams lighter vs Mizuno is that their insertion depth is 1/4" deeper than a Mizuno, hence missing 1/4" of added hosel material.

 

 

These have both the Wishon tungsten tip weights and the weighted ferrules from BigFootGolf on eBay.  I have no issues in playing these with so much weight inline with the hosel / shaft.

 

 

 

0.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg

WITB: Sun Mountain 5.5LS
Titleist TSi2 11* with Ventus Red Velocore 6
Titleist TSi2 15* fairway with Evenflow White 65

Titleist TSi2 21* hybrid with Evenflow White 90
Titleist TSi2 24* hybrid with Accra FX300H
Srixon ZX5 5-GW with Steelfiber i95cw
Cleveland RTX Zipcore 54* & 58* with Steelfiber i110cw
Seemore Platinum M7 Tour with SS Flatso 3.0
Set #2: MP-18 MMC 5-PW with Steelfiber i95cw
Set #3: MP-4 5-PW with Steelfiber i110cw

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2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Interesting.   But based on what you're describing, the highest stress (and therefore the break) on the tip weight should be at the point where it intersects the top of the hosel, not at the bottom where the the picture is showing the break.   Just a guess, but that looks more like a torsional stress fracture (not longitudinal bending).

 

What's the diameter of that tip weight?

 

The main body of the weight get bent with the shaft tip at impact. The bottom circular part of the weight has no room to move laterally with the body/shaft tip at impact. So the stress point becomes where the body and base of the weight meet. 

 

Now again, as a disclaimer, this is for high speed/impact players. I've bent a lot of iron shaft tips 😂

Callaway Rogue Sub Zero, Rogue Silver 70g
Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 3W, Rogue Black 80g
Nike VR Pro Combo 3-PW XP115
Nike VR 54/58/62 XP115
Evnroll ER2
TP5X

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22 minutes ago, ARL67 said:

These are my super short ZX7 / ZX5 build with Steelfiber i110cw.

This ended up being a bad head + shaft choice for a short build as the Srixon heads are light ( compared to my typical Mizunos ) and the i110cw are butt heavy / counter balanced.  My simple guess on the ZX's being 2'ish grams lighter vs Mizuno is that their insertion depth is 1/4" deeper than a Mizuno, hence missing 1/4" of added hosel material.

 

 

These have both the Wishon tungsten tip weights and the weighted ferrules from BigFootGolf on eBay.  I have no issues in playing these with so much weight inline with the hosel / shaft.

 

 

 

0.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg

 

Me, as well.

IMG_20200822_144317_654.jpg

Callaway Rogue Sub Zero, Rogue Silver 70g
Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 3W, Rogue Black 80g
Nike VR Pro Combo 3-PW XP115
Nike VR 54/58/62 XP115
Evnroll ER2
TP5X

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9 minutes ago, Hack Daddy said:

 

The main body of the weight get bent with the shaft tip at impact. The bottom circular part of the weight has no room to move laterally with the body/shaft tip at impact. So the stress point becomes where the body and base of the weight meet. 

 

It shouldn't need any room to move laterally.   If that wasn't torsional shear, then it would have to be an axial force at the base of the tip weight that caused it, not lateral.

 

 

Quote

Now again, as a disclaimer, this is for high speed/impact players. I've bent a lot of iron shaft tips 😂

 

So those pics is a tip weight for steel shafts, not graphite?  And no glue used to hold it in place?

Edited by Stuart_G
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