Shank over shanks

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, ralemb said:

I would like to show three old videos, knowing this will not help my current issues but to show it bit of history and why I am so frustrated as some party, especially the driver was so much better in the past.

 

Following my driver 2 years ago when I had the best shots and I was totally happy with:

 

 

 

IMG_2168.TRIM.MOV 16.9 MB · 0 downloads

 

Secondly my very best video at my old and now again new pro where I was hitting a Sandwedge in a 3/4 feeling swing with the idea of setting wrists late. You see probably it is looking very good. I was never able to repeat it, thank kids-break started for 4 years - but this was how it looked in the past. But only at the pro and not alone afterwards.

 

 

 

 

 

and thirdly a scope video I think one year ago which shows a bit more how it goes at the pro... better position hands at top in terms of not crossing club and good hits with a better impact position etc. but probably still a lot of swing faults in general. The try here was to keep right hand unter the left during downswing to shallow club / not coming over the top.

 

 

 

 

 

RPReplay_Final1631174301.mov 31.39 MB · 0 downloads

 

 

 

 

I know it only counts what I am currently doing but I want to show something to habe me maybe understand a bit better.

 

 

 

There are a few interesting takeaways here. I am only going to comment on the second video since most of us can't download attached videos because of a website bug and it is the only one I can see. 

You said "You see probably it is looking very good", but what I see is a lot of the same issues you currently have, just within a more manageable swing. The important thing to understand here is that the underlying stuff looks like it has always been there, it is just simply more pronounced now due to lack of practice and/or bad instruction/bad learning. 

First, you said these were 3/4 feeling swings with sand wedge, yeah?



That is a VERY full sand wedge swing. If this was what felt 3/4 to you than you need to spend some time recalibrating your understanding of what a full swing is, because this is more than full. In fact, it is almost the same length as the Xander gif I posted previously and that was a mid/long iron. I stress this for same reason Monte stressed it around the 2:00 mark in the No Turn Cast Drill video above; your current bad swings have WAY too much arm movement in the backswing. These older swings have your arms nicely out in front of you with a full turn. However, the same problem with your wrist action is still there, you can simply manage it a little better because your arms aren't stuck behind you. That is the only real difference here. 

 

[ralemb]

sorry, my mistake - this actually was a full swing, I copied in the wrong video. I think it also was not a SW PW or so. Here comes the actual 3/4 SW swing from the same lesson. After this I tried full swings with longer clubs.

 

I can see all three videos in my previous post...

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by ralemb

[ralemb]

Hi all,

 

quick update from my end what my idea and plan for the upcoming weeks and months is - thanks to the one user who was helping me really a lout outside of this thread here.

 

I try to sum up my issues first - I know there will always be somebody who is saying this and that is BS - I guess I have to live with this as this sport is so individual:

 

1. root cause for everything which is or could be wrong is my backswing with having my hands way to deep and arms to far behind myself instead of arms and hands in front of my body and grip end pointing towards the ball, so a steeper shaft plane in the backswing. This is what I currently do train in front of a mirror or in the backyard with an „airball“ to even hit shots with this - always until in out of the position where arms a parallel to the ground. The current status and comments of how this is feeling and going needs to be a separate post and this is so much I would need to say about 🙂

 

2. IF this gets better, I understand that from this position my current kind of downswing is still bad but probably works better that form my current top position, this is - and especially when I am on the course - I can only focus on the backswing at the moment but not at the downswing and impact.

 

3. where it gets critical and really confusing for me is the hole 3dimensional part of how to set left and right wrist in the backswing and what is the idea through the impact. there are so many different „styles“ and lessons out there, that it is really kind of one good pro says the opposite like the other - e.g. the idea of bowing left wrist through impact and clubhead should not overtake the hands vs. the Monte idea of flipping right hand like NTC which has the perfect impact picture, but the idea is complete different.

 

4. number 3 in combination with my strange downswing move - I guess - could lead to very bad results if I mix my downswing which is in me with the wrong idea, e.g. NTC. This might be perferct for person a but very risky for person b - dont know

 

5. the wording of cupping, hinging, setting, bowing in English (and even in German) can be very misleading. what I try in my backswing is basically left hand like a hammer - backswing and right hand like accelerating a motorbike (but there is also hammer-backswing motion which comes with it)

 

 

So - in any case and especially it must not be too mich, I try to change backswing first. I did not wanted to, but I show what I try to do in the backyard. - as said trying left arm parallel (you see the overswing also here) in a much much better position that my natural swing. It really feels strange, I must admit.

 

Best

Ralemb

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chicocrino]

To me is clear the issue is with how you elevate your arms. Left arm is coming across the chest, instead of going up. Right arm / elbow needs to stay in front of chest. Result is you are getting too deep, stuck and disconnected. 

[ralemb]

Hey, thanks for the answer.

 

WOW - more than a year now since this thread opening. 2022 was a year of ups and downs, like all the years good moments and then completely break down with shanks lots and lots. Especially when I am on the range by myself for training reasons, I am having the worst shots and most shanks than any round without range and so on. Really strange.

 

I visited 3 coaches, no-one wanted to change anything on my backswing but I need to "admit" that my left wrist is way more flat than here in the video, so less or no crossing at the top anymore. But it is really hard to change the deep hands and I still can't believe my own videos from 2013 with such a bad game of golf but such a good backswing, totally strange in a lots of ways.

 

all the pros are more like: I need to come more from in-to-out instead of out-to-in - this is the core reason everybody tries to help me. Shallowing the club and/or holding more lag instead of casting and scoping. I guess I need to trust the pros but what I definitely know is that 95% of my swing will not change I need to live with this. So many hours of coaching, training, money...this is really really hard to be honest.

 

I don't want to see videos of myself because this frustrates me even more. sometimes I got one when a friend is filming me without that I know it on the course - but this isn helping but making me sad.

 

 

So - not much to say but still appreciating all your help in the beginning of this thread but I am afraid that it does not fit to me in terms of I am just not the guy who can do those changes.

 

One Drill which is helping me most of the times at the range when I am shanking and/or hitting it really bad:

Setting up with a 9,8,7 iron regularly, but the club down in the middle of my stance but the ball is sitting at my left foot, like with a driver. From this I really need to shift weight extremely to reach the ball in the downswing and those hits are often way better than putting the ball back to the middle. But often it gets me to better contact after doing this drill for 3,4 shots - don't know if this information is helping or not :)

 

 

[ralemb]

Hey there,

 

not sure if anybody is following such an old thread, but after a while I would like to give an update after I switch coach and got a complete different idea of swinging the club, especially from top position until follow-through. Knowing, that it might doesn't look completely different, but it feels like. Shanks nearly zero-ed down until know and hopefully it stays.

 

Eliminating shanks is and was my number one priority and there are still many bad shots, rarely a pure one and even if, this ha no power, no lag, its still casting and scooping and what else - but since a while I got a good feeling within a new idea to keep away the heel.

 

Let me know if this journey is still interesting for somebody.

 

 

[slytown]

On 5/9/2023 at 11:16 AM, ralemb said:

Hey there,

 

not sure if anybody is following such an old thread, but after a while I would like to give an update after I switch coach and got a complete different idea of swinging the club, especially from top position until follow-through. Knowing, that it might doesn't look completely different, but it feels like. Shanks nearly zero-ed down until know and hopefully it stays.

 

Eliminating shanks is and was my number one priority and there are still many bad shots, rarely a pure one and even if, this ha no power, no lag, its still casting and scooping and what else - but since a while I got a good feeling within a new idea to keep away the heel.

 

Let me know if this journey is still interesting for somebody.

 

 

 

It is still very over the top and quite difficult to play golf from there. If you are not shanking anymore, you are probably squaring the face better, but will have either big cuts or pulls.

 

If you are turned off by the complex, multiple advice you've been getting, Is uggest keeping it simple. The most important things in the golf swing are 2-fold: wrists and path. Since you have a decent grip and know how to square the face, just work on path. Don't think about anything else.

 

Drill: Bring the club to the top. Then with your back to the target work on bringing the arms down and releasing the club right of the target. Stop the club away from you, pointing your arms straight right of the target and repeat. You need to get the feel of the club coming down earlier and your path in the follow through going right of the target. In the real swing, momentum will bring the club around to the left.

 

The drill is designed to keep your shoulders from turning too early, which causes the OTT move that has plagued you.

Edited May 10, 2023 by slytown

[ralemb]

Hey. Thanks for answering but I just wanted to show the progress. At the moment I am working with a new pro exactly on the opposite what I was trying before and similar stuff what your suggestion is - especially the right of the target approach. 
 

i am still coming from the inside (with proof of trackman although It does not feels like) and the one and only idea at the moment is to lift arms higher and than swing from out - to - in - as the feel. Handy coming toward left knee from top position. 
 

of course this generates more a cut or a fade but since than the shanks are gone and this will be the new base to then work on other stuff. 
 

i was with the idea to come too way from inside, trying to hit the ball on the inside square - more into right of the target but this brings my hands away from the body to the ball and was the number one reason to shank. 
 

so thanks but I am so happy with the progress, played my first scoring differential below 10 🙂 

 

so thanks for the advice but it would be the wrong one in my case and of course I need to trust the pro especially with that good progress since the first couple of lessons. 

[ralemb]

Hi all - not really sure if anybody following this thread here... I am still drastically frustrated, although I had the best year of my golf 🙂

 

I broke 80 for the first time and 6 days later had my first hole in one at my home course on a par 3 - 123meters.... had a good year and some nice rounds, but also some break downs with shanks, especially when i am on the range by myself to train - there is something wrong on my head that I am having the worst shots and sessions when the pressure is the lowest (alone on the range).

 

summer was okay, the lessons with my pro and the new idea to swing from out-to-in beginning of the year have not continued very well and I had very bad trainer sessions and I will probably switch back to my old pro (who was not liked here based on what I was telling and what you did see in my swing) - so lets see where this ends.

 

Having a carreer-low handicap of 13.8 at the moment but not because of great swings but keeping the really bad holes lower. I am not happy. swing looks worse than 10 year ago, score is better...the good iron shots are better but still too many bad shots and the worst thing the shank-session breakdowns.

 

i HAD a nice feeling and idea a couple of weeks ago - with a bit of a new take-away where the grooves of the club looked towards the ball longer which I thinks help to not cross through my chest that much und then - the "golfing-with-aimee" drill and idea to avoid casting: try to move the end of the grip towards the target while trying to hot the ball... there was one fantastic range sessions, baby-draws and really really good. 2 days later completely breakdown with shanks.

 

It is so frustrating... I don't want to see my self on videos as this looks awkward. I read through the whole thread here half the day and I think I do understand now way more than those 2 Years ago - but int essence, nothing really change and I probably have to live with it.

 

its purely the big drama and the very thin line between having really great shots  - for me this is an iron7 carry 130meters+ -> would take this all the way for my entire life and than being like a complete noob.

 

Swingwise it is probably still the bad backswing position and a bad dropping hands move - I don't know. But what I wanted to try to explain, when everybody here showed me that I have NOT an OTT swing but I was saying yes:

 

yes the hands have not been OTT but what I wanted to say was and this was always confirmed by trackman path data, that my club was out-to-in at impact...not because OTT with the hands but because of the weird popping out of the club closely before impact I believe.

 

Long story short - trying to re-start with my new-old coach, hopefully having a better basis somehow when it comes to less casting and thus less stuck hopefully, but we will see...

 

 

And by the way - after reading everything here again - I just created the paid account for the Monte Series of the new NTC - don't believe in yet, but I will have a look and maybe in winter on boring range sessions I can give it a go. At least I like to have seen what everybody here is talking about.

Edited November 27, 2023 by ralemb

[bcjim]

Insomnia scrolling here.  Interesting thread for sure.  I'm no instructor so take this with a grain of salt but,  I've found I can sometimes mitigate a shank attack by incorporating a pause or feeling of a pause, at the top of the swing.  It's gotten me through some rounds and also helped reset range sessions that have gone sideways.