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How many majors would Gary Player win today? Who is a good comp?


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1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

That was a length comparison. Only. And a facetious zero majors comment.

 

But as @isaacbmnoted above….why does does depth on tour not matter? How can a person be so oblivious to the fact that it natters greatly?
 I have used this example before but then again I have read, again, on this thread how winners are gonna win in any era because they are the greats. As if depth has no bearing and a players career will be about  the same regardless of era.

 

So let’s go extreme for those that say 9 majors for Gary Player in any era….

Lets create a time machine where all of the greats compete AT THE SAME TIME.  So you have a tour with Sarazen and Hagen and Nelson and Hogan and Jack and Arnie and Player and Watson et cetera until Woods and the current crop. Let’s take the top 150 of all time. Let them all be in their prime using the same equipment and run a 25 year tour. That’s 100 total majors.

  Who wins them? If they all win their real career number then we run out of majors. Does a Jack or Tiger still win theirs because they are the best? Does everyone win the same percentage less? Or do some of those guys from early in the pro golf days win fewer because they faced less competition? Or is it today’s stars that face a time of competition win less because they are “spoiled overpayed pambies without the will to win” that would win less?

  Something’s gotta give and they can’t all have the same career. Mind you I am certainly not saying the depth of players today are all equal or better than the top 150 of all time but in my opinion more of them would be in there than raw career wins would indicate.

You’re right, depth does matter greatly. Someone has to finish 23rd. 
 

You’re using wordplay. Saying we’re going to drop all the past players into today’s field and they’ll all be competing against each other in every major. Of course then none of them would win as often (and that includes Tiger) But  everyone here also  knows that is not the basis of this discussion.    We’re talking, hypothetically, about how individual players would fare in different eras. It’s easy to make your argument when you set up a scenario that only fits your narrative. 
 

Case in point. This thread is about Gary Player. One person. Not every past player. I can’t believe people can watch players like Zach Johnson or Ben Curtis win majors and say Gary Player would win none. 

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Some folks don’t like him, fair enough.    But he wasn’t beating chumps for those majors and is one of the greatest of all time.    Trying to “insert” him or anyone else into another era

Absolutely no chance. After all, the guy is 85 yrs old. 😉

As is the case with all of my posts, I do not read or peruse the thread before posting cuz I do not want to see what others have posted prior to stating my sometimes asinine opinion(s) or thoughts on

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1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

1-2 maybe , back door jobs on short tracks.  
 

edit. I have a burr in my saddle over his horrible course designs.  My membership includes rights to 2 courses.  One is a GP design.  And it sucks out loud.  So bad that it’s 20 min away and none of us ever play it. Ever.  Zoysia greens.  Stink.  Hidden greens , stink.  And the worst is that he designs against tee length advantage.  So many forced layups it’s unreasonable.  


 

Blade!

 

I mentioned that GP won the Masters in 1978 when Augusta actually played longer than when Vijay won in 2000 🧐

 

 

Surprising but it shoots to pieces the argument that GP wouldn’t win majors due to length.

 

Also, given the obvious  strength of his iron game and short game, 

 

Put modern GI irons, hybrids, wedges in his hands 

 

 

GP win 10 Majors! 🤣

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1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:


 

Blade!

 

I mentioned that GP won the Masters in 1978 when Augusta actually played longer than when Vijay won in 2000 🧐

 

 

Surprising but it shoots to pieces the argument that GP wouldn’t win majors due to length.

 

Also, given the obvious  strength of his iron game and short game, 

 

Put modern GI irons, hybrids, wedges in his hands 

 

 

GP win 10 Majors! 🤣

But today’s high speed super zoom cameras might see the sand  scoops or the “ 3 wood 3wood ....8 iron “ address of the ball in the rough.  😂

 

Lol I kid mr player.  Partially.  
 

no I think he’d  get a few. But he wouldn’t have more majors than 4-5 maximum.  I mean we can’t with any certainty call him better than most of the young guns now can we ?
 

 I mean I love old school more than most my age. But he’s the exception.  By that I mean he was no jack.  Not even close. But he didn’t have to be in those fields.
 

  The big 3 could have been Arnold jack and Trevino if Trevino came first.  ( my opinion). I don’t see him as better all  time than faldo or Phil . And I put Phil ahead of faldo.  
 

 

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Top players for 25 years, 100 majors, I take 1973-1976 Johnny Miller to win a dirty dozen. @Christosterone

Jack gets 18

Tiger gets 18

Lot’s of guys scrapping for the last 52.  I like Hogan and Nelson for chunks

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Someone alluded to this above; yes GP was smaller in stature than his opponents but comparing him to today's players stature is again comparing apples and pears. And also being small in stature does not mean short ball hitter with the right equipment - from an era between Player and today I am thinking Ian Woosnam and from today's crowd Justin Thomas. Richard has it nailed on above - I think although in theory technically speaking there is greater strength in depth today when it comes to that killer instinct, perhaps because society is different, it is not as strong today as from the 1930's - perhaps 1980's (with exceptions like Faldo and Tiger).

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Gee @Forged4ever you totally ruined this thread.  😉. All that truth about mind of a champion, world traveler, etc...

 

Much more fun to compare GP to Kevin Na.

 

So...when we say in "today's game" how an old timer would do?  Because "today's game" does not include the same Tiger.  In today's game, the champion Gary Player would mop up a lot of guys.  BUT, I am not giving him 9 majors.  Maybe 6.  The length would be a problem at US Open and PGA.  But he would do just fine at Augusta and decent weather Open.

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, tatertot said:

Or ... do the multiple winners still get theirs, and you don't get the guys who win 1 or 2. The Ben Curtis and Chad Campbells of the world miss out.

My example was 25 years of  this elite tour. That’s 100 majors. That’s Jack through the guys tied with 7 totaling 105. So if they all “get theirs” that’s Phil, Seve, Faldo, Trevino , Nelson and others with none. Still sound likely to you?

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5 hours ago, deadsolid...shank said:

You’re right, depth does matter greatly. Someone has to finish 23rd. 
 

You’re using wordplay. Saying we’re going to drop all the past players into today’s field and they’ll all be competing against each other in every major. Of course then none of them would win as often (and that includes Tiger) But  everyone here also  knows that is not the basis of this discussion.    We’re talking, hypothetically, about how individual players would fare in different eras. It’s easy to make your argument when you set up a scenario that only fits your narrative. 
 

Case in point. This thread is about Gary Player. One person. Not every past player. I can’t believe people can watch players like Zach Johnson or Ben Curtis win majors and say Gary Player would win none. 

We’re all using wordplay to make our point. I made mine because many have posted something like “winners gonna win” s of the number of top notch players doesn’t matter. I’m just saying it does. 
  My real belief is with his skills he would probably win a few. BUT, would he still have that bulldog mentality if he was in the heart of battle less? That is the other thing that happens on tour these days. It’s more difficult to just get yourself into contention.

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19 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

Bro, #1, that's not bein fair at all😂😂

 

Secondly, I was very polite with him, got along well and he even invited me to have lunch with he and Maddie at MY friggin club, 😂😂, and he'd never guess that I didn't care for him, though part of that is from his strong narcissistic streak and believing that everyone loves him, wants his autograph and wants to spend time with him, lol🥴. When he invited me to join them on the patio, he said something to the effect of "we(I surmised that he meant Maddie and I🤷🏻‍♂️) would really enjoy the food" as he'd heard "great things" about the dining facility and food, lol😄. I couldn't understand that and was thinking "does he think that I'm off the street and here cuz of Madison," 😂😂🤷🏻‍♂️

 

I felt like responding, "Dude, I've been eatin this f***** food for 35 years and yah, it's good," 😂😂😂, though I just thanked him and begged off cuz of the afternoon SWAT. I was raised decently Brotha, to be a Gentleman, and to play the "face time" country club game, and when I chose/choose to, no one Plays it better, 😂😂🤙. The only two guys that I went the other way with were Couples and Norman, with Couples deserving it as he treated a fellow Pro, our top Assistant at the time, like a b**** on one tee in front of other Players, members and fans and  Norman had it coming cuz he berated a great locker room employee. 

 

That said, WhoTF are you, the Beacon of righteousness and impartiality😂😂😂???

 

I'm just messin with ya Brotha, lolol🤙😘👊

 

I hope that you're having a great season and wish ya nothing but sunny skies, fairways & greens My Friend👊
Richard 


 

You should have thrown him off the patio and into to bushes.

 

 

🤣

 

 

Cheers Richard. Post more often! 🍻 

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1 hour ago, Forged4ever said:

Bro, #1, that's not bein fair at all😂😂

 

Secondly, I was very polite with him, got along well and he even invited me to have lunch with he and Maddie at MY friggin club, 😂😂, and he'd never guess that I didn't care for him, though part of that is from his strong narcissistic streak and believing that everyone loves him, wants his autograph and wants to spend time with him, lol🥴. When he invited me to join them on the patio, he said something to the effect of "we(I surmised that he meant Maddie and I🤷🏻‍♂️) would really enjoy the food" as he'd heard "great things" about the dining facility and food, lol😄. I couldn't understand that and was thinking "does he think that I'm off the street and here cuz of Madison," 😂😂🤷🏻‍♂️

 

I felt like responding, "Dude, I've been eatin this f***** food for 35 years and yah, it's good," 😂😂😂, though I just thanked him and begged off cuz of the afternoon SWAT. I was raised decently Brotha, to be a Gentleman, and to play the "face time" country club game, and when I chose/choose to, no one Plays it better, 😂😂🤙. The only two guys that I went the other way with were Couples and Norman, with Couples deserving it as he treated a fellow Pro, our top Assistant at the time, like a b**** on one tee in front of other Players, members and fans and  Norman had it coming cuz he berated a great locker room employee. 

 

That said, WhoTF are you, the Beacon of righteousness and impartiality😂😂😂???

 

I'm just messin with ya Brotha, lolol🤙😘👊

 

I hope that you're having a great season and wish ya nothing but sunny skies, fairways & greens My Friend👊
Richard 

I bow to the master!

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On 6/13/2021 at 3:57 PM, Hawkeye77 said:

Some folks don’t like him, fair enough. 
 

But he wasn’t beating chumps for those majors and is one of the greatest of all time. 
 

Trying to “insert” him or anyone else into another era is pointless. 


Well people like to talk about who is the all time greatest or who are the all time best 10 golfers.

 

so, it isn’t pointless to insert someone into a different era. It’s a way of highlighting the strengths/weaknesses of a certain era and the strengths/weaknesses of a particular player. 

 

The best players should excel in any era. 
 

E.g. I think Tiger Woods would be the best in any era. I think Jack Nicklaus would be highly successful in the modern era and any era. 
 

But someone like Gary Player might not be as good in the “power era”.

 

So maybe this era highlights his weakness. 

 

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1 minute ago, Tee2Green said:

From a self-promotion and over-evaluation of their own ability standpoint, along with the number of Majors won, Mickelson is a good comparison. Phil hits it longer off the tee, though I’m not sure I ever saw Gary 5-putt from inside 20 feet. 
 

So… it’s a toss up. 

Player won three more majors and Phil has won a higher percentage of PGA tour events played than fitness king Player through age 50 season.

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2 minutes ago, Tee2Green said:


So, a fairly decent comparison then? Majors for wins? Which brings up an interesting question: would you rather have more wins, or more majors? 

Or would you rather be easily the second best player of your era or a bit further down?

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There were 19 years between Player's first and last majors, so he would have picked them off. He would have been like Harrington in his gold spell, except over a much longer time.

 

As Koepka says, majors are the easiest to win if you know how to win them. So many players can't hack the pressure, many aren't good enough. It's why he has twice as many majors as Greg Norman and Dustin Johnson.

 

Player knew how to win them so he wouldn't need to have been a dominant player, all he would have needed to be is near the lead on the back 9 on Sunday. He birdied 7 of the last 10 holes to win the 1978 Masters. He knew how to win.

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7 hours ago, straightshot7 said:


Well people like to talk about who is the all time greatest or who are the all time best 10 golfers.

 

so, it isn’t pointless to insert someone into a different era. It’s a way of highlighting the strengths/weaknesses of a certain era and the strengths/weaknesses of a particular player. 

 

The best players should excel in any era. 
 

E.g. I think Tiger Woods would be the best in any era. I think Jack Nicklaus would be highly successful in the modern era and any era. 
 

But someone like Gary Player might not be as good in the “power era”.

 

So maybe this era highlights his weakness. 

 

No, it's pointless.  We don't have the benefit of time travel, are you suggesting he was now somehow born in 1990? He might never have taken up golf, who knows.  Same with Jack, same with Tiger.  Rat Patrol vs. Custer, who ya' got?  About the same.  

 

He was one of the greatest of his time and ever and had something in the way of rising above that was special, like all of the greatest players, like few players of any generation.  

 

He's also his own worst enemy when it comes to his mouth, lol, so we like to pick on him, fair enough. He can make us all cringe.

 

But in 1965, here's something you've read about with less than a handful of players in the last 50 years - puts him ahead of most of the "stars" of today:

 

"It was the first time since 1920 that a non-American had won the U.S. Open. And it was certainly the first time a player with fiberglass shafts had won a major.

“Julius Boros came up to me afterward,” Player says. “He told me, ‘I’ve just seen the all-time miracle – winning the U.S. Open with a fishing rod.’”

For the win, Player received $25,000. But he kept his word to Dey, who had presented the winner’s check to him. Player handed it right back, donating $20,000 to junior golf and $5,000 to cancer research.

Player also received a $1,000 bonus for participating in the playoff. He gave that money – along with an additional $1,000 – to Pagel the caddie. The $2,000 was, at the time, believed to be the most any TOUR pro had given his caddie for a single win.

In essence, it cost Gary Player $1,000 to win the U.S. Open that year. Money well spent, of course."

 

 

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12 hours ago, bscinstnct said:


 

You should have thrown him off the patio and into to bushes.

 

 

🤣

 

 

Cheers Richard. Post more often! 🍻 

Lol. Exactly. Macho man Richard Savage style !  

 

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1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

No, it's pointless.  We don't have the benefit of time travel, are you suggesting he was now somehow born in 1990? He might never have taken up golf, who knows.  Same with Jack, same with Tiger.  Rat Patrol vs. Custer, who ya' got?  About the same.  

 

He was one of the greatest of his time and ever and had something in the way of rising above that was special, like all of the greatest players, like few players of any generation.  

 

He's also his own worst enemy when it comes to his mouth, lol, so we like to pick on him, fair enough. He can make us all cringe.

 

But in 1965, here's something you've read about with less than a handful of players in the last 50 years - puts him ahead of most of the "stars" of today:

 

"It was the first time since 1920 that a non-American had won the U.S. Open. And it was certainly the first time a player with fiberglass shafts had won a major.

“Julius Boros came up to me afterward,” Player says. “He told me, ‘I’ve just seen the all-time miracle – winning the U.S. Open with a fishing rod.’”

For the win, Player received $25,000. But he kept his word to Dey, who had presented the winner’s check to him. Player handed it right back, donating $20,000 to junior golf and $5,000 to cancer research.

Player also received a $1,000 bonus for participating in the playoff. He gave that money – along with an additional $1,000 – to Pagel the caddie. The $2,000 was, at the time, believed to be the most any TOUR pro had given his caddie for a single win.

In essence, it cost Gary Player $1,000 to win the U.S. Open that year. Money well spent, of course."

 

 

Very nice of Player to do that. I had never read that story….thank you for sharing.

 

However….lol….there’s more to the story(reminds me of Paul Harvey and The Rest of the Story)

 

In 1965 being the first  non American to win the US Open since 1920 does illustrate a point I have made…perhaps too often lol.  It shows how the two world wars decimated sports and lowered the bar for participation and created an “easier” route to winning than in the current era. Look at the Open Championship in that nearly half century 1920-1965 and you will see very little American participation.  And vice versa with the majors and tours being held in the USA.  The worlds best simply did not get together and compete as the have more recently.  Does not matter if it was because of difficulties of travel and other reasons the end result was the same.  More localized competitions meant less talent at every event.

  Does not necessarily mean the players of the past were lesser players but it does mean we don’t know how they would have fared  with more challenges.  
 Certainly makes sense….at least to me lol….that if they were twice as many elite players the win totals would be smaller as they would have been shared amongst more players.   As we see today.

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24 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Very nice of Player to do that. I had never read that story….thank you for sharing.

 

However….lol….there’s more to the story(reminds me of Paul Harvey and The Rest of the Story)

 

In 1965 being the first  non American to win the US Open since 1920 does illustrate a point I have made…perhaps too often lol.  It shows how the two world wars decimated sports and lowered the bar for participation and created an “easier” route to winning than in the current era. Look at the Open Championship in that nearly half century 1920-1965 and you will see very little American participation.  And vice versa with the majors and tours being held in the USA.  The worlds best simply did not get together and compete as the have more recently.  Does not matter if it was because of difficulties of travel and other reasons the end result was the same.  More localized competitions meant less talent at every event.

  Does not necessarily mean the players of the past were lesser players but it does mean we don’t know how they would have fared  with more challenges.  
 Certainly makes sense….at least to me lol….that if they were twice as many elite players the win totals would be smaller as they would have been shared amongst more players.   As we see today.

It always circles back to depth of field which is fine if anyone wants to look at it that way.

 

When it's done to diminish the accomplishments of players of different generations then it's doing them a disservice, IMO.  When it's done in a way that is blind to certain competitors having "it" in ways 99.9% of other golfers don't have and never had, then I think it is misplaced, again IMO.

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2 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

It always circles back to depth of field which is fine if anyone wants to look at it that way.

 

When it's done to diminish the accomplishments of players of different generations then it's doing them a disservice, IMO.  When it's done in a way that is blind to certain competitors having "it" in ways 99.9% of other golfers don't have and never had, then I think it is misplaced, again IMO.

 

Hyperbole in a sports discussion? What!

 

Mr Million Situps is easy to poke fun at:

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/19487129/gary-player-believes-three-senior-open-championship-titles-count-towards-total
 

At least he's still flown the most miles and eaten the most vegetables in the history of humanity.

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16 minutes ago, cdnglf said:

 

Hyperbole in a sports discussion? What!

 

Mr Million Situps is easy to poke fun at:

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/19487129/gary-player-believes-three-senior-open-championship-titles-count-towards-total
 

At least he's still flown the most miles and eaten the most vegetables in the history of humanity.

Not what the post quoted above was about. Pretty sure I’ve already acknowledged his feet are often firmly in his mouth, lol. Have at it!

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On 6/13/2021 at 5:40 PM, miamistomp said:

 

I find it interesting that Gary Player mentions Tom's illegal irons but what he doesn't mention is that he too was apparently playing illegal irons, according to this article. 

 

Quote

But P.G.A. officials found a way today to generate some heat anyway. They ruled the equipment used by Watson, Ray Floyd, Gary Player and George Burns to be illegal because of a rule that limits the width of the grooves on their irons to 35/1000ths of an inch.

https://www.nytimes.com/1977/08/11/archives/watsons-clubs-ruled-illegal-for-pga-play.html

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