How many majors would Gary Player win today? Who is a good comp?

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

Tiger did have more training as a young player than most of the pros he was competing against at the time. Had lots of coaches and sports psychologists training him at a very young age. Way ahead of the curve. Doubt you could name any other pros that had that kind of training at that young of an age. Now it is the norm for pro golfers. 

 

Tiger was playing golf basically as soon as he could walk. He was on Johnny Carson when he was 2 years old. Tiger was raised only to be a pro golfer. Tiger would absolutely be a force and #1, but not decimating fields like he was in today's environment. Many pro golfers today have followed that path because Tiger laid down the groundwork. 

Merv Griffin…not Carson.

 

Your talking points are virtually verbatim to what was being said in the late 80’s into the 90’s.  There was just simply way too much talent on tour for anyone to dominate like Jack did.  That is what everyone was saying.  And then along came Tiger.  And Phil for that matter. And even Vijay.   Without Tiger those two would be rated higher than many currently give them credit for.

 

And there will be another dominant player. One that, like Tiger, was never complacent in his game and always reached for more.

[Forged4ever]

Tiger did not have have a mental coach or sports psychologist as a child as his father took on that role until he passed, and say what you might about Earl Woods as a Father, Husband or Man, however he was a phenomenal mental coach. I'd let him train my kid any time. Come to think of it, while Tiger has had swing coaches, I don't believe that he's EVER had a mental coach/sports psychologist. 

 

If I'm mistaken, name(s) please😉??

 

Stay Well Gents👊
RP

Edited July 14, 2021 by Forged4ever

[Shilgy]

15 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

Tiger did not have have a mental coach or sports psychologist as a child as his father took on that role until he passed, and say what you might about Earl Woods as a Father, Husband or Man, however he was a phenomenal mental coach. I'd let him train my kid any time. Come to think of it, while Tiger has had swing coaches, I don't believe that he's EVER had a mental/psychological coach.

 

If I'm mistaken, name(s) please😉??

 

Stay Well Gents👊
RP

Well said RP…..although it scares me a bit to imagine the combination of being your kid with mental training by Earl Woods…..yikes!!🤣

[johnseg]

58 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

Tiger did not have have a mental coach or sports psychologist as a child as his father took on that role until he passed, and say what you might about Earl Woods as a Father, Husband or Man, however he was a phenomenal mental coach. I'd let him train my kid any time. Come to think of it, while Tiger has had swing coaches, I don't believe that he's EVER had a mental coach/sports psychologist. 

 

If I'm mistaken, name(s) please😉??

 

Stay Well Gents👊
RP

Love your contribution in this thread. I hate the depth of field argument to discount what the greats accomplish. Winners win and winning is as much will as anything. That is why you see non-Tiger/non-Jack eras because supreme talent and supreme will don't often coincide, but we will see it again.

[tacklingdummy]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Merv Griffin…not Carson.

 

Your talking points are virtually verbatim to what was being said in the late 80’s into the 90’s.  There was just simply way too much talent on tour for anyone to dominate like Jack did.  That is what everyone was saying.  And then along came Tiger.  And Phil for that matter. And even Vijay.   Without Tiger those two would be rated higher than many currently give them credit for.

 

And there will be another dominant player. One that, like Tiger, was never complacent in his game and always reached for more.

 

It is way different now. It was much easier to play college golf and become pro in the 80s and early 90s because golf was not popular as it is today. Tiger brought so many people into the game and higher level athletes. Before athletes thought golf was lame. Not anymore.

 

Just the shear volume of excellent pro golfers today is astounding. You have major winners and multiple PGA winners on the Korn Ferry. Not a lot of difference between the guys on the Korn Ferry and PGA. Lots of great players are even having a tough time finding a place to play now.  

 

Also, we are both wrong, it was the Mike Douglas show. Bob Hope and Jim Stewart were present as well. 😂

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XupL9h0DOc

 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

It is way different now. It was much easier to play college golf and become pro in the 80s and early 90s because golf was not popular as it is today. Tiger brought so many people into the game and higher level athletes. Before athletes thought golf was lame. Not anymore.

 

Just the shear volume of excellent pro golfers today is astounding. You have major winners and multiple PGA winners on the Korn Ferry. Not a lot of difference between the guys on the Korn Ferry and PGA. Lots of great players are even having a tough time finding a place to play now.  

 

Also, we are both wrong, it was the Mike Douglas show. Bob Hope and Jim Stewart were present as well. 😂

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XupL9h0DOc

 

Yes we were both wrong on the show.

 

It was not MUCH easier to play college or pro golf then. The global explosion with the influx of worldwide players had already happened. 
 

Great players still play on tour and keep their card year after year. Some lose it based on poor play. Previous wins do not mean a player is currently better. Most of the multiple time winners playing KF are guys biding their time until Champions tour.

 

Edited to add….yes there are more really good players today. But it’s not like comparing the 50’s and 60’s to the 90’s imo.  There has been an incremental increase.

Who are the great athletes you speak of? For every Koepka or DJ you have a Zalatoris or Higgs.  Golf is a great equalizer that way. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Shilgy

[tacklingdummy]

8 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

Tiger did not have have a mental coach or sports psychologist as a child as his father took on that role until he passed, and say what you might about Earl Woods as a Father, Husband or Man, however he was a phenomenal mental coach. I'd let him train my kid any time. Come to think of it, while Tiger has had swing coaches, I don't believe that he's EVER had a mental coach/sports psychologist. 

 

If I'm mistaken, name(s) please😉??

 

Stay Well Gents👊
RP

 

Dr. Jay Brunza, clinical psychologist and retired Navy officer started working with Tiger in 1989 as a mental coach. Watch Tiger's Prowl @36:52. Also, a golf.com article describes how he caddied for him a lot during his amateur days and even at one US Open and two Masters when he played as an amateur.  

 

Tiger's Prowl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fnHJuUGm5A

 

Golf.com article on Jay Brunza

https://golf.com/news/tiger-woods-former-psychologist-still-teaching/

 

[Shilgy]

4 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

Dr. Jay Brunza, clinical psychologist and retired Navy officer started working with Tiger in 1989 as a mental coach. Watch Tiger's Prowl @36:52. Also, a golf.com article describes how he caddied for him a lot during his amateur days and even at one US Open and two Masters when he played as an amateur.  

 

Tiger's Prowl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fnHJuUGm5A

 

Golf.com article on Jay Brunza

https://golf.com/news/tiger-woods-former-psychologist-still-teaching/

 

So Tiger was 13 or 14 when Dr Brunza started working with him? Is that “at a very young age” or “as a young child” as you had asserted earlier? That is what was disagreed with.

[Forged4ever]

5 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

Dr. Jay Brunza, clinical psychologist and retired Navy officer started working with Tiger in 1989 as a mental coach. Watch Tiger's Prowl @36:52. Also, a golf.com article describes how he caddied for him a lot during his amateur days and even at one US Open and two Masters when he played as an amateur.  

 

Tiger's Prowl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fnHJuUGm5A

 

Golf.com article on Jay Brunza

https://golf.com/news/tiger-woods-former-psychologist-still-teaching/

 

Thanks much for the links👊

 

I was dead *ss wrong and stuff that I was giving credit to Tiger's father father for was all Brunza!! I shoulda known that any guy who sits there bangin cymbals wouldn't introduce hypnosis/self-hypnosis😂😂(though my Teacher, Pete, brought a drum and two drum sticks out to the line when I was 15yo and I asked him what it was for and he said simply, "the next stage of your development," lol. To this day I friggin hate drums, though Madison uses cymbals with a few of her students, lolol).
 

Thanks again for posting and the education.
 

Fairways Greens & Fair Skies 4ever My Friend⛳️
Richard

Edited July 15, 2021 by Forged4ever

[Shilgy]

19 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

Thanks much for the links👊

 

I was dead *ss wrong and stuff that I was giving credit to Tiger's father father for was all Brunza!! I shoulda known that any guy who sits there bangin cymbals wouldn't introduce hypnosis/self-hypnosis😂😂(though my Teacher, Pete, brought a drum and two drum sticks out to the line when I was 15yo and I asked him what it was for and he said simply, "the next stage of your development," lol. To this day I friggin hate drums, though Madison uses cymbals with a few of her students, lolol).
 

Thanks again for posting and the education.
 

Fairways Greens & Fair Skies 4ever My Friend⛳️
Richard

Not drums and cymbals but Tiger has spoken often about Earl’s attempts to distract him on the course. All in an attempt to make young Tiger impervious to those issues.  

The Brunza work was in another aspect of mental training….

While in the Navy, Brunza worked with cadets at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. His work there, along with his work in pediatric oncology, gave Brunza unique insight and experience in guiding young minds through traumatic and stressful experiences.

After their initial meeting – six months after, to be exact – Brunza began officially working with Tiger. The primary area of focus for the duo was in area to which most golfers can relate: playing well under pressure. Brunza coached young Tiger through the process of dealing with stressful situations by focusing entirely on the moment, not the fear, not the environment, just the moment. By removing aspects beyond his control, Brunza taught Tiger to focus on the process, and to simply let his mind and body preform the tasks they were trained to perform.

[tacklingdummy]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

So Tiger was 13 or 14 when Dr Brunza started working with him? Is that “at a very young age” or “as a young child” as you had asserted earlier? That is what was disagreed with.

 

Splitting hairs. 😂 13 or 14 is a young age when overwhelming majority of players he was competing against didn't have a mental coach. I'd bet that the overwhelming majority of pros Tiger was competing against did not have mental coaches. Mental coaches is a fairly new thing and I'd bet most pros today still do not have a mental coach. 

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

Splitting hairs. 😂 13 or 14 is a young age when overwhelming majority of players he was competing against didn't have a mental coach. I'd bet that the overwhelming majority of pros Tiger was competing against did not have mental coaches. Mental coaches is a fairly new thing and I'd bet most pros today still do not have a mental coach. 

I would definitely take that bet.  Top pros have been seeing guys like Rotella, Valiante, Parente etc for years.  Have you ever heard of Vision 54 with Nilsson and Marriott?  They worked with Annika for years and drove a large portion of her success.  
I would be very surprised if any players do not see anyone.

[Forged4ever]

8 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Not drums and cymbals but Tiger has spoken often about Earl’s attempts to distract him on the course. All in an attempt to make young Tiger impervious to those issues.  

The Brunza work was in another aspect of mental training….

While in the Navy, Brunza worked with cadets at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. His work there, along with his work in pediatric oncology, gave Brunza unique insight and experience in guiding young minds through traumatic and stressful experiences.

After their initial meeting – six months after, to be exact – Brunza began officially working with Tiger. The primary area of focus for the duo was in area to which most golfers can relate: playing well under pressure. Brunza coached young Tiger through the process of dealing with stressful situations by focusing entirely on the moment, not the fear, not the environment, just the moment. By removing aspects beyond his control, Brunza taught Tiger to focus on the process, and to simply let his mind and body preform the tasks they were trained to perform.

Yah, actually, all that he did was swear or yell something distracting when Tiger was over a putt or in his backswing and he also dropped things within Tiger's peripheral vision when in address and he also would push his bag over, which apparently upset Tiger more from the standpoint of Earl potentially scratching or dingin his irons up than any noise that they may have made, lol.

 

A funny thing happened with Pete when he was working with Madison and this was before I was in her life however he had her at one end of the line at his driving range/goat track hittin his drum before and during her swings. Sam was at the other end of the line hittin wedges, so there was probably 18-20 slots between em(it was an outdoor range, not bays or any cover). So about 10-15 minutes in, Pete's ball shagger, a local HS kid, walks up to Pete and Maddie and says, "Yiur brother said he's gonna come down here and kick your *ss and put his wedge through that drum🥁," lolol. Pete of course was ready to send the kid back with his message, though Madison knew both brothers well, and actually broke up a fist fight between them in Pete's shop a few years before and the story of that lil dust up even made the rounds up at the club however I had no earthly idea at that time who the "cute lil blonde" was who broke it up😂😂😂.

 

So Maddie said that she had had enough and was heading into the shop, leaving Pete there with his drum and the kid. Out of spite he hit it a few more times then he too headed into the club. Though Sam had maniacal fo us under the gun, noise actually bothered him when he was down on the line and he'd either ask kids to please move down the opposite way from him or he would move if he only brought a few clubs down.

 

I loved him though he was sort of a diva😂😂. Madison has a lot of stories of being the go between him and Pete when they'd get into a tiff, which was 2-3 times a year, lol.

 

Anyway, I hope all's well Bro and you're having a nice season👊
 

My Best,

Richard 

 

 

[Forged4ever]

6 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

Splitting hairs. 😂 13 or 14 is a young age when overwhelming majority of players he was competing against didn't have a mental coach. I'd bet that the overwhelming majority of pros Tiger was competing against did not have mental coaches. Mental coaches is a fairly new thing and I'd bet most pros today still do not have a mental coach. 

Not to jump into the middle of a hair splitting contest however to have a mental coach at 13 friggin years old is YOUNG in my book😂😂

 

Cheers🍻

RP

[Shilgy]

5 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

Not to jump into the middle of a hair splitting contest however to have a mental coach at 13 friggin years old is YOUNG in my book😂😂

 

Cheers🍻

RP

I would bet a majority of talented juniors have one these days.   I would guess most talented teaching pros, like your tales with Pete, were  a lot of mental coaching as well as the physical side. I know mine are and were.

[nikegal]

22 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Well said RP…..although it scares me a bit to imagine the combination of being your kid with mental training by Earl Woods…..yikes!!🤣

I agree 💯 shilgs😂🤣. Richard is the first parent to get a one game "time out" for cheering on Ava when she knocked a girl down in her soccer game and she got a yellow card. I thought it extreme and to phrase it as a "time out" was ridiculous, though he took it better than I thought that he would but he refuses to go back to her games and stand on the sidelines with the other parents. He stands up on a hill by himself and it is comical when he cheers for Ava and if you look up to where the noise is coming from, there's one bald headed bearded guy waving his arms and pumping his fists, hahaha. Oh, and he exaggerated as I do not hit cymbals!! It is ONE cymbal, haha. Take care shilgs😊Madison

[nikegal]

14 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

I would bet a majority of talented juniors have one these days.   I would guess most talented teaching pros, like your tales with Pete, were  a lot of mental coaching as well as the physical side. I know mine are and were.

I can't speak for Richard, but Pete started hitting the drum and flicking his cigarette butts(he ALWAYS had a cigarette hangin from his mouth, haha) in front of my ball when I was 14. I started with him at 12yo. I know Richard's grandmother worked with him from 7-14 and then she turned him over to Pete. He would know better when Pete started with the drum. He did not do that with everyone, as I do not with the cymbal. He(and I) only did it with those that had the talent, skills and drive to become a Player. I know that I only use that kind of training with about 10% of my students. Take care 🙂M

Edited July 15, 2021 by nikegal

[tacklingdummy]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

I would bet a majority of talented juniors have one these days.   I would guess most talented teaching pros, like your tales with Pete, were  a lot of mental coaching as well as the physical side. I know mine are and were.

 

Having a golf teaching pro teach mental golf techniques is quite a bit different than a MD or PHD psychologist teaching mental techniques. Not saying one might be better than another because it depends on the player, but they are teaching different things.  

Edited July 15, 2021 by tacklingdummy

[Joe Mannix]

------Strengths? - self promotion. 

 

 

You beat me to it.....the guy is annoying as hell.....and soooooo insecure!!!!!!

[Shilgy]

55 minutes ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

Having a golf teaching pro teach mental golf techniques is quite a bit different than a MD or PHD psychologist teaching mental techniques. Not saying one might be better than another because it depends on the player, but they are teaching different things.  

We are arguing/discussing semantics. I would say they are teaching the same things with, perhaps,  different  methods.

 

Oh, and one has a PGA of America diploma and the other some kind of medical or psychology degree on the wall. And he probably charges more.

[tacklingdummy]

6 hours ago, Joe Mannix said:

------Strengths? - self promotion. 

 

 

You beat me to it.....the guy is annoying as hell.....and soooooo insecure!!!!!!

 

Nice dog whistle. 😉

Edited July 16, 2021 by tacklingdummy

[3whacker]

condolences to Mr Player on the loss of his wife to pancreatic cancer....