2021 US Open

[BNGL]

7 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I agree with you and don’t find this course memorable all at the same time. 
 

Don’t take this as a challenge or argument. Because it’s not. I don’t currently have the energy.  
 

I grew up around the building of the game. My grandfather ( who raised me so may as well be dad ) worked shaping tees and greens and growing grass on them behind the architect Russel Breeden. As a early teen I tagged along during the summer and watched / rode the big dozers and pans moving earth.  I heard first hand the discussions on why this was this way etc. and I have the grade blueprints to prove it for over 35 courses.  The hand drawings by the architect on huge paper that showed the operators what to do.
 

said all that to say.  These men and women weren’t taught how to do that.  They just saw it.  As you said. That plus experience in messing up and having to change things.  If that so , then it’s not unreasonable to think that people not connected to the build or maintenance of a course could have a good eye for things.  Doesn’t make them correct. But it doesn’t automatically make their opinions worthless.  
 

again.  That’s not me trying to one up you.  I’m clearly less knowledgeable as all my experience is 15 plus years old now. And wasn’t equal to begin with.   I grew up on a course every day from age. 12 to 18. But when I got out I got all the way out.   And I never played while I was in the first time.  So it was strictly from a build and maintenance point of view.  And we both know that players and maintenance guys don’t always or even usually see eye to eye.  I had a super once who used to say that the worst thing about a golf course was the golfers. 😂but they also were needed to pay to keep up the course.  

anyway. I just don’t think it’s bad to discuss it. If they’re wrong tell them why.  And that’s that. 
 

 

And you’re not saying it sucks, you’re saying it’s not memorable. There’s a difference. I read something online about how the course would be better if they moved fairways closer to the cliffs and photoshopped about 5/6 holes with a before and after. Memorable is something different and you’re right it isn’t memorable other than that par 3 and 18 I couldn’t tell you what hole is which. 
 

one reason I’ll die defending Firestone is because it’s the BEST golf course I have ever played. It sucks on TV, can’t help that but it’s the greatest challenge tee to green I have played and Ive played them all. It’s so fair and black and white as in this is the shot you need to hit, if you can hit it you’re rewarded if you can’t you’re screwed. And guess what? Tour players generally agree with that assessment. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by BNGL

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, BNGL said:

Golfers are the worst haha. Most every super worth his salt shares that same opine. No challenge at all, wanna know why? You’re reasonable and back up your claims with what you believe and say so in a clear concise intelligible manner. That’s something I respect we’ve gone back and forth for sure And while we might not agree I can respect what you say because you back it up. 

Thank you For reading me correctly. 
 

I’ll add 
course maintenance is one of those professions that cannot be understood unless experienced.  A lot like waiting tables or being a cop.  You can’t imagine what it’s like until you do it.  It’s that thankless a lot  of times.  

 

[bscinstnct]

53 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

According to his tee time, Wolff hasn't teed off yet.

 

43 minutes ago, Showtime9 said:

He just birded his 1st hole of the day

 

Wait, but a poster said (-3) thru 13

 

And now he -2 thru 3

 

Wtf does it mean?!

[bladehunter]

1 minute ago, BNGL said:

And you’re not saying it sucks, you’re saying it’s not memorable. There’s a difference. I read something online about how the course would be better if they moved fairways closer to the cliffs and photoshopped about 5/6 holes with a before and after. Memorable is something different and you’re right it isn’t memorable other than that par 3 and 18 I couldn’t tell you what hole is which. 
 

one reason I’ll die defending Firestone is because it’s the BEST golf course I have ever played. It sucks on TV, can’t help that but it’s the greatest challenge tee to green I have played and Ive played them all. It’s so fair and black and white as in this is the shot you need to hit, if you can hit it you’re rewarded if you can’t you’re screwed. And guess what? Tour players generally agree with that assessment. 

Lol. See I love Firestone on TV.   Was mad to see it go off tour.  
 

it’s just a pet peeve for me.  I have this ability to record and see entire holes in my head .  I can still recall the 36 holes I worked in my teens . Every hump and bump.  But this course I cannot seem to retain.  Just bugs me. That’s really it. 

[BNGL]

[ThinkingPlus]

2 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

Wait, but a poster said (-3) thru 13

 

And now he -2 thru 3

 

Wtf does it mean?!

If Wolff birdies 13, it will come true.

[rolling green]

1 hour ago, Oneput said:

Wolff -3 (thru 13)

Is the telecast and scoring delayed or are you from the future?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

11 minutes ago, tsecor said:

I hope we see phil hit a putt past the hole and run over and hit it again before it stops. 

I don't know if we'll see that again, but I can almost predict that next week you'll be posting something about how this tournament was a failure because of the TV ratings 🙂 

[drn92]

ANyone having trouble with the app?  Will not even open for me. 

 

drn92

[tsecor]

1 minute ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I don't know if we'll see that again, but I can almost predict that next week you'll be posting something about how this tournament was a failure because of the TV ratings 🙂 

only time will tell......especially since the pandemic is ending and its fathers day....and unless there are big names in the final pair on Sunday.....yea, it will be......glad you remember me. I am flattered 😉

[Go Cougs]

1 hour ago, ThinkingPlus said:

According to his tee time, Wolff hasn't teed off yet.

 

36 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

Wait, but a poster said (-3) thru 13

 

And now he -2 thru 3

 

Wtf does it mean?!

I'm glad some other people noticed this and it isn't just me.  I just watched an old episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents that was just like this, and was starting to freak out. 

 

Edit: Wolff is now 3 under.  This is officially getting weird.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Go Cougs
Update

[Mr. Grumpy]

12 minutes ago, drn92 said:

ANyone having trouble with the app?  Will not even open for me. 

 

drn92

I don't have the app, but it seems by complaints online that non of the specialty sport viewing apps work well at all. 

[TheMoneyShot]

Is it too early for the “anyone but Bruce” shoutout???😂🤣😅

[Fairways_and_Greens]

51 minutes ago, BNGL said:

I loved that tweet because it’s insane how many Course designers are on this site. Everyone has opinions and people (unfortunately) have the ability to share them with everyone else. I worked with and met some of the best designers in the world…Arnold Palmer and his crew, Nicklaus and his crew, Fazio and his crew, Norman, Beau Welling, Jan Bel Jan, Bobby Weed. As I said I worked hand in hand with a few for renovations and I made suggestions as a well informed player (washed up professional, All American college player) and superintendent about something’s that I thought were good ideas. Enlarge a landing area, expand some chipping areas, slide a bunker over etc. each time I was told no because of 10 things that I never thought of. These designers aren’t idiots this is their job they have the experience the crew and the direction of ownership/membership/Tour of what to design and how to do it. Someone sitting at home who’s never walked the fairways or played a caliber of golf anywhere near approaching Tour standards isn’t the best informed opinion. Now if Tour players were saying hey this place sucks then yeah go for it. I do know players don’t care for it from a facilities standpoint (locker rooms and practice range SUCKS!) and some (most?) prefer the North course but players are largely ambivalent towards the South course.

In golf, the product is literally the golf course. Everyone that has played golf or watches golf gets to decide what course features they like and don’t like.

 

 

[bscinstnct]

21 minutes ago, Go Cougs said:

 

I'm glad some other people noticed this and it isn't just me.  I just watched an old episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents that was just like this, and was starting to freak out. 

 

He -3!!

 

Oh my God….

 

 

 

 

 

Who is this Oneput dude?!

 

Oneput! He from like the future, maaaaan!  
 

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by bscinstnct

[manku]

4 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Kind of like ticket scalping.  Once they pay taxes then all is good.

 

I never saw a a problem with ticket scalping or gambling.

 

But the way US telecasts are incorporating betting into the broadcasts is dreadful...I've watched plenty of sports in Europe (where betting has been legal for decades), and I can't recall any broadcaster ever mentioning odds.

 

Plus, any commentator saying a player is a "good bet" on a outright to win needs their head examined...

[bladehunter]

Ok. Do they have the ball magnets turned on in the pins today ? Wth ? 4 flagsticks hit in an hour. 

[Scotty1140]

3 minutes ago, TheMoneyShot said:

Is it too early for the “anyone but Bruce” shoutout???😂🤣😅

Anyone but Bruce or Brooksy haha

[bscinstnct]

6 minutes ago, Scotty1140 said:

Anyone but Bruce or Brooksy haha

 

Just heard a “Brooksy “ in his follow thru, ball plopped I’m the bunker.

 

What comes around…..

[smashdn]

Tour/US Open challenge and impeccably maintained are not synonyms for architecturally interesting/significant and memorable.  They are also not mutually exclusive traits either.

 

The gripe is not, as I have read and feel, that Torrey is not a challenge nor an appropriate challenge.  A challenge for a tour level pro golfer can be had in any number of ways, with set up and conditions being the most common.  (Perhaps throw in length which I feel goes somewhat with set up.)  The gripe has been that, aside from the ocean views and 2008, there is not much else making he course memorable.  From an architectural standpoint, the routing doesn't do it any favors, the "ask" from the tees are redundant, the holes are somewhat similar as a group, the greens lack much character and the surrounds, while they fit the greens, they fit the greens and don't add much interest either.

 

While I appreciate that an accomplished player and a seasoned superintendent are likely better suited to evaluate the course from a "fit for use as a tour course" standpoint, I don't hold much opinion of the characteristics often used to determine that criteria as "mentally challenging," "deceptive," "creative," and "architecturally significant" are not often cited, nor have the current Tour stop courses shown evidence that they play much of a role in course choice.

 

Admittedly, I also do not care for using Tour stop courses as major venues.  It ruins the mystique to an extent.  It is also a blown opportunity to show something different that doesn't "fit the tour mold."

[drn92]

40 minutes ago, Mr. Grumpy said:

I don't have the app, but it seems by complaints online that non of the specialty sport viewing apps work well at all. 

Website is terrible also. 
 

The app for The Master’s always seems to work. 

 

drn92

[bscinstnct]

4 minutes ago, drn92 said:

Website is terrible also. 
 

The app for The Master’s always seems to work. 

 

drn92

 

I like how the picture automatically get landscape by putting phone on side.

 

But these greedy bastids showing this Amex commercial every time you leave abd go back on app. Even if it’s just for a few minutes 

[BNGL]

38 minutes ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

In golf, the product is literally the golf course. Everyone that has played golf or watches golf gets to decide what course features they like and don’t like.

 

 

For regular golf yes. For the PGA Tour and any other televised golf event the product is the players. 

[BNGL]

25 minutes ago, smashdn said:

Tour/US Open challenge and impeccably maintained are not synonyms for architecturally interesting/significant and memorable.  They are also not mutually exclusive traits either.

 

The gripe is not, as I have read and feel, that Torrey is not a challenge nor an appropriate challenge.  A challenge for a tour level pro golfer can be had in any number of ways, with set up and conditions being the most common.  (Perhaps throw in length which I feel goes somewhat with set up.)  The gripe has been that, aside from the ocean views and 2008, there is not much else making he course memorable.  From an architectural standpoint, the routing doesn't do it any favors, the "ask" from the tees are redundant, the holes are somewhat similar as a group, the greens lack much character and the surrounds, while they fit the greens, they fit the greens and don't add much interest either.

 

While I appreciate that an accomplished player and a seasoned superintendent are likely better suited to evaluate the course from a "fit for use as a tour course" standpoint, I don't hold much opinion of the characteristics often used to determine that criteria as "mentally challenging," "deceptive," "creative," and "architecturally significant" are not often cited, nor have the current Tour stop courses shown evidence that they play much of a role in course choice.

 

Admittedly, I also do not care for using Tour stop courses as major venues.  It ruins the mystique to an extent.  It is also a blown opportunity to show something different that doesn't "fit the tour mold."

You’re last paragraph I totally agree with. I’d take it a step further and say that it shouldn’t be held at a public good course either. I’d been the biggest proponent of anyone I know that the US Open should have a rotation of clubs and the USGA is starting to adapt that. Not because of me

[Fairways_and_Greens]

Wolff, no!

[jonsnow]

1 hour ago, BNGL said:

I loved that tweet because it’s insane how many Course designers are on this site. Everyone has opinions and people (unfortunately) have the ability to share them with everyone else. I worked with and met some of the best designers in the world…Arnold Palmer and his crew, Nicklaus and his crew, Fazio and his crew, Norman, Beau Welling, Jan Bel Jan, Bobby Weed. As I said I worked hand in hand with a few for renovations and I made suggestions as a well informed player (washed up professional, All American college player) and superintendent about something’s that I thought were good ideas. Enlarge a landing area, expand some chipping areas, slide a bunker over etc. each time I was told no because of 10 things that I never thought of. These designers aren’t idiots this is their job they have the experience the crew and the direction of ownership/membership/Tour of what to design and how to do it. Someone sitting at home who’s never walked the fairways or played a caliber of golf anywhere near approaching Tour standards isn’t the best informed opinion. Now if Tour players were saying hey this place sucks then yeah go for it. I do know players don’t care for it from a facilities standpoint (locker rooms and practice range SUCKS!) and some (most?) prefer the North course but players are largely ambivalent towards the South course.

Is Jan Bel Jan the guy from Les Miserables?

[bscinstnct]

8 minutes ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

Wolff, no!

holy, you can see the replay of par 3 16th on the app.

 

Wide right off the tee. Then misses the 2 foot bogey putt. 

 

 

[BNGL]

14 minutes ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

Lol, back to gate keeping again. Sigh.

You seriously think the PGA Tour is in the business of selling the golf course? 

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, Go Cougs said:

 

I'm glad some other people noticed this and it isn't just me.  I just watched an old episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents that was just like this, and was starting to freak out. 

 

Edit: Wolff is now 3 under.  This is officially getting weird.

 

Wait a second!!!

 

Look, Wolff started on the back so he actually was

 

-3 thru 13!!!!!! 
 

 

 

 

[BNGL]

12 minutes ago, jonsnow said:

Is Jan Bel Jan the guy from Les Miserables?

https://www.janbeljan.com