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Mud Ball - Casual Water Clarification


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My course is a swamp - even a little rain and it's a mud pit. Half of my drives end up embedded, easy enough to fix. But sometimes the ball will land in casual water (mud), then roll a few feet out and I'm stuck with a ball that is now technically out of casual water, but completely covered in mud. I've been taking unplayable lies because a half inch of mud between the ball and club face doesn't work. Is there any other solution that doesn't penalize me?

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9 minutes ago, Nachosgrande said:

My course is a swamp - even a little rain and it's a mud pit. Half of my drives end up embedded, easy enough to fix. But sometimes the ball will land in casual water (mud), then roll a few feet out and I'm stuck with a ball that is now technically out of casual water, but completely covered in mud. I've been taking unplayable lies because a half inch of mud between the ball and club face doesn't work. Is there any other solution that doesn't penalize me?

Talk to your pro or committee about invoking a local rule allowing Lift Clean Place.  Or look around your feet for visible water when you take your stance. 

Quote

It is not enough for the ground to be merely wet, muddy or soft or for the water to be momentarily visible as you step on the ground; an accumulation of water must remain present either before or after your stance is taken

But you should be prepared to move the ball a long ways to get complete relief from Temporary Water if its as wet all over as you suggest.

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12 minutes ago, Nachosgrande said:

My course is a swamp - even a little rain and it's a mud pit. Half of my drives end up embedded, easy enough to fix. But sometimes the ball will land in casual water (mud), then roll a few feet out and I'm stuck with a ball that is now technically out of casual water, but completely covered in mud. I've been taking unplayable lies because a half inch of mud between the ball and club face doesn't work. Is there any other solution that doesn't penalize me?

What used to be called casual water is now called temporary water. I’ll post the definition at the bottom of this post, but note that mud is NOT temporary water and there’s no free relief from it.

 

The solution to your problem is to have your course or competition committee invoke the preferred lies (winter rules) local rule or lift clean replace local rule. 

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Temporary Water

Any temporary accumulation of water on the surface of the ground (such as puddles from rain or irrigation or an overflow from a body of water) that:

  • Is not in a penalty area, and

  • Can be seen before or after the player takes a stance(without pressing down excessively with his or her feet).

It is not enough for the ground to be merely wet, muddy or soft or for the water to be momentarily visible as the player steps on the ground; an accumulation of water must remain present either before or after the stance is taken.

Special cases:

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6 minutes ago, Nachosgrande said:

My course is a swamp - even a little rain and it's a mud pit. Half of my drives end up embedded, easy enough to fix. But sometimes the ball will land in casual water (mud), then roll a few feet out and I'm stuck with a ball that is now technically out of casual water, but completely covered in mud. I've been taking unplayable lies because a half inch of mud between the ball and club face doesn't work. Is there any other solution that doesn't penalize me?

 

I guess the first question would be "How often does it rain there ?" :classic_laugh:

 

No free relief for anything sticking to the ball.

 

Are you talking about a club event with multiple players ? Just you and the brother-in-law ? What ?

 

For such casual play, you are your own committee, so, up to you to declare lift, clean and place if the conditions warrant it.

 

For more organized play you need to talk to/question the committee/organizers/whoever.  i.e. someone in charge. He/she/they would have to give out any conditional/changed/local rules for the round.

 

P.S. "Mud" isn't temporary water.

 

 

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Here's how one club deals with mudballs:


“SUMMER RULES” are in effect from May 1st through November 30th. 

 

Players should play the ball "down" except on those holes where, due to wet conditions, carts are restricted to the cart paths.

 

On holes where Cart Path Only is in effect, players may play "lift, clean and place" within one club-length, not nearer the hole, in those parts of the general area cut to fairway height or less on the hole being played. (MLR E-3) 

 

“WINTER RULES” are in effect from December 1st through April 30th.

 

Players may play "lift, clean and place" within one club-length, not nearer the hole, in those parts of the general area cut to fairway height or less on the hole being played. (MLR E-3)
 

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Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play competitive golf.

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17 minutes ago, sui generis said:

“WINTER RULES” are in effect from December 1st through April 30th.

 

Players may play "lift, clean and place" within one club-length, not nearer the hole, in those parts of the general area cut to fairway height or less on the hole being played. (MLR E-3)
 

 

That is interesting, have not seen it around here. I wonder what is the logic behind that restriction?

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23 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

For such casual play, you are your own committee, so, up to you to declare lift, clean and place if the conditions warrant it.

 

 

 

A group of people is not officially a committee unless they decide they are prior to beginning play, and there is a competition of at least two players at hand.

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31 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

That is interesting, have not seen it around here. I wonder what is the logic behind that restriction?

Some, including me, think it inappropriate to prevent a player whose ball rolled six inches into the rough at the edge of his fairway from taking advantage of LCP while the player’s opponent, who hit all the way off line to a different fairway, gets to use the rule.

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35 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

That is interesting, have not seen it around here. I wonder what is the logic behind that restriction?

The guy who missed the fairway by 50 yards into the adjacent fairway shouldn't get the benefit of lift, clean, place while the guy who only missed the fairway by a foot doesn't.

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33 minutes ago, Nachosgrande said:

 

I still have to post the rounds for handicap purposes, so just want to make sure I'm giving myself the best advantage I can within the rules.

 

Understood. And it's great you want your handicap to be correct.

 

But the thing is, if you were to LCP all the time you'd have a lower/vanity 'cap; one you probably then couldn't play to in a formal comp where you wouldn't be allowed to LCP.

 

If you never played LCP, your handicap will be higher than it probably should be and you risk being called a sandbagger when you play a really good round in ideal conditions.

 

So, you use your best judgement in applying LCP to your current round when you believe a real comp would do so. Dunno1.gif

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31 minutes ago, Sawgrass said:

Some, including me, think it inappropriate to prevent a player whose ball rolled six inches into the rough at the edge of his fairway from taking advantage of LCP while the player’s opponent, who hit all the way off line to a different fairway, gets to use the rule.

 

Fairness is one good aspect and I believe that is the idea behind the restriction. Just cannot help thinking about the text in the Purpose part of E-3:

 

'When such conditions are widespread on the course, the Committee can choose to adopt a Local Rule for “preferred lies” (also known as “winter rules”) to allow fair play or help protect the fairway. '

 

Limiting the LCP on the hole being played does not help to protect the adjacent fairway, should a player hit their ball there.

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6 hours ago, sui generis said:

Here's how one club deals with mudballs:


“SUMMER RULES” are in effect from May 1st through November 30th. 

 

Players should play the ball "down" except on those holes where, due to wet conditions, carts are restricted to the cart paths.

 

On holes where Cart Path Only is in effect, players may play "lift, clean and place" within one club-length, not nearer the hole, in those parts of the general area cut to fairway height or less on the hole being played. (MLR E-3) 

 

“WINTER RULES” are in effect from December 1st through April 30th.

 

Players may play "lift, clean and place" within one club-length, not nearer the hole, in those parts of the general area cut to fairway height or less on the hole being played. (MLR E-3)
 

This is about what the guys I play with do. Except the “winter rules” are in effect from September 1st to June 1st. Sometimes June 15th. And they roll the ball everywhere in casual rounds during that time. 🙂

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Our home club is in a rainy wet part of North American.  Our committee realizes mud needs water to exist, hence we have a local rule that allows lift, clean and place for mud balls year round.

 

If you are playing competitions that are for lack of a better word "formalized" get your head pro or Director to deal with setting the guidance.  For casual round with friends treat is as a practice round and thus not required to turn in score for handicapping.

 

You should be enjoying your day on the course if not in competition, life is too short.

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10 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Fairness is one good aspect and I believe that is the idea behind the restriction. Just cannot help thinking about the text in the Purpose part of E-3:

 

'When such conditions are widespread on the course, the Committee can choose to adopt a Local Rule for “preferred lies” (also known as “winter rules”) to allow fair play or help protect the fairway. '

 

Limiting the LCP on the hole being played does not help to protect the adjacent fairway, should a player hit their ball there.

Yep, classic trade off, that's why we pay Committees the big bucks🙂

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