GUR Question

[kev_r7]

A Ball went in to GUR area behind green, the green is in a corner with a cart path around it and thick rough the other side of the cart path, the Ball in the GUR could not get relief anywhere further away from the hole than where it laid and there was no drop zone, whats the official ruling on this incase I come up against it again please.

[jimbo123]

39 minutes ago, kev_r7 said:

A Ball went in to GUR area behind green, the green is in a corner with a cart path around it and thick rough the other side of the cart path, the Ball in the GUR could not get relief anywhere further away from the hole than where it laid and there was no drop zone, whats the official ruling on this incase I come up against it again please.

Details aren’t clear (are the rough and cart path nearer or further from the hole? If they are further, then that is where you take relief). In any case I think there must be a nearest point of relief. In an extreme case where say, the GUR borders OB,  the relief reference point might be back in front of the green?  

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by jimbo123

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, kev_r7 said:

A Ball went in to GUR area behind green, the green is in a corner with a cart path around it and thick rough the other side of the cart path, the Ball in the GUR could not get relief anywhere further away from the hole than where it laid and there was no drop zone, whats the official ruling on this incase I come up against it again please.

A photograph or drawing would be of great assistance!

Edited June 14, 2021 by rogolf

[Sawgrass]

58 minutes ago, kev_r7 said:

A Ball went in to GUR area behind green, the green is in a corner with a cart path around it and thick rough the other side of the cart path, the Ball in the GUR could not get relief anywhere further away from the hole than where it laid and there was no drop zone, whats the official ruling on this incase I come up against it again please.

I’m unclear on the description as well, but it sounds to me as if the nearest point of relief is on the cart path.  So play it as it lies or drop on the path, if you drop on the path you have the additional option to play from there or drop in the thick rough further from the hole.

 

Sometimes playing from GUR is the best option.

[Newby]

41 minutes ago, Sawgrass said:

 

 

Sometimes playing from GUR is the best option.

Or play it from where you made a mess  of it last time 😉

[SNIPERBBB]

46 minutes ago, Sawgrass said:

I’m unclear on the description as well, but it sounds to me as if the nearest point of relief is on the cart path.  So play it as it lies or drop on the path, if you drop on the path you have the additional option to play from there or drop in the thick rough further from the hole.

 

Sometimes playing from GUR is the best option.

As long as its not a NPZ of course

[sui generis]

I think that there is a Nearest Point of Complete Relief somewhere as jimbo123 suggests.

 

It might not be very "near" but it surely must exist. (I say "must" with a slight reservation since, for me, the notions of "always" and "never" can be tricky in the RoG universe.)

 

If the ruling bodies didn't believe that a NPCR was always possible, they'd have given us some guidance, don't you think?

[Sawgrass]

14 minutes ago, sui generis said:

I think that there is a Nearest Point of Complete Relief somewhere as jimbo123 suggests.

 

It might not be very "near" but it surely must exist. (I say "must" with a slight reservation since, for me, the notions of "always" and "never" can be tricky in the RoG universe.)

 

If the ruling bodies didn't believe that a NPCR was always possible, they'd have given us some guidance, don't you think?

As I’m sure you know, one piece of guidance we are offered is that the NPCR might be inside the trunk of a tree, so it existing and being useful are two different things. 
 

 

[2bGood]

Nearest point of relief ALWAYS exist. It is impossible for it not to. It might not be location you like, it might not even be all that close, but there is no way for it not to exist. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by 2bGood

[sui generis]

2 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Nearest point of relief ALWAYS exist.

 

That's a long, skinny branch onto which I don't care to venture. 😉

[jimbo123]

It’s probably obvious to the experts who’ve long thought about this.  But what I did was imagine some far flung corner of the golf course, and say, well there’s one option for complete relief, so at least one (and probably a closer one!) must exist.  
 

This helped me purge my head of any ideas like “the relief has to be on the same of the hole” or anything irrelevant like that.  

[sui generis]

In PGA/USGA Rules Workshops we're taught that with regard to NPR and later NPCR that:

 

1) it's non-negotiable, and

2) usually there's only one, but it can happen that there's more than one located along an arc.

 

But, nobody, not even Lew Blakey, was willing to say that there might not be one. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by sui generis

[antip]

14 minutes ago, sui generis said:

In PGA/USGA Rules Workshops we're taught that with regard to NPR and later NPCR that:

 

1) it's non-negotiable, and

2) usually there's only one, but it can happen that there's more than one located along an arc.

 

But, nobody, not even Lew Blakey, was willing to say that there might not be one. 

That's a fine challenge, I wonder........

The biblical 40 days and nights of rain have occurred. The course is very low and only the second green, close to OOB fence, is elevated enough to not have surface water. Keen to try out my new waterproof shoes and with no 'course closed' sign out, I slosh through the first hole and drive off the second to have a hundred yard approach shot. At this point, I try to take 16.1b relief for temporary water. There appears to be no NPCR on the course that is not nearer the hole.

Actually, even that does not hold water (sorry). Any vegetation off the ground not nearer the hole would be a legitimate NPCR, as would any course hardware (rubbish bin, half way house etc) where a dropped ball could come to rest above the water line.

Yep, I'm with Lew.

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, antip said:

That's a fine challenge, I wonder........

The biblical 40 days and nights of rain have occurred. The course is very low and only the second green, close to OOB fence, is elevated enough to not have surface water. Keen to try out my new waterproof shoes and with no 'course closed' sign out, I slosh through the first hole and drive off the second to have a hundred yard approach shot. At this point, I try to take 16.1b relief for temporary water. There appears to be no NPCR on the course that is not nearer the hole.

Actually, even that does not hold water (sorry). Any vegetation off the ground not nearer the hole would be a legitimate NPCR, as would any course hardware (rubbish bin, half way house etc) where a dropped ball could come to rest above the water line.

Yep, I'm with Lew.

Might just be the teeing area that provides the NPCR.

[2bGood]

3 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

That's a long, skinny branch onto which I don't care to venture. 😉

I get where you are coming from and I retract my statement you are correct I could in theory be possible. I love thinking through these fringe scenarios and I 'think' I may have one.

 

Say you are on a resort course - the kind where holes are separated by very long cart paths. You ball rolls 5000 yards down a path and remains on it. Either side of the path is marked OB and there is no part of the course that is both 5000yards from the hole  and no nearer the hole. High improbable, but possible.

[antip]

30 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Might just be the teeing area that provides the NPCR.

I had in mind teeing areas all sodden so non qualifying.

[Mr. Bean]

51 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

I get where you are coming from and I retract my statement you are correct I could in theory be possible. I love thinking through these fringe scenarios and I 'think' I may have one.

 

Say you are on a resort course - the kind where holes are separated by very long cart paths. You ball rolls 5000 yards down a path and remains on it. Either side of the path is marked OB and there is no part of the course that is both 5000yards from the hole  and no nearer the hole. High improbable, but possible.

 

This falls in with the same category of probability as antip's 40 days of rain...

 

So I'd say we should simply stick to the fact that there is ALWAYS a NPCR, one just has to find it.

[kev_r7]

Thanks for replies all, i had always considered the point of relief to be behind or to the side of the GUR but from what your saying we could have just followed the arc back round to in front of the hole which makes sense.

[antip]

1 hour ago, kev_r7 said:

Thanks for replies all, i had always considered the point of relief to be behind or to the side of the GUR but from what your saying we could have just followed the arc back round to in front of the hole which makes sense.

If that is NPCR, that is where the player needs to go.

[jimbo123]

@kev_r7, I’d still be curious where the path and rough were that you mentioned in your initial description