Max score of a hole

[FreeWilly613]

I played with an already established 3man last weekend.  They have some standing rules they seem to play by.  I've just began my journey in learning the extensive rules of golf, in my short time playing seriously. So I have a question for the Wrx.

 

They went like this:

1xMulligan/9holes

Max score is 2x par so par 4 max is 8 strokes.

Inconsistent gimmies 

 

The mulligans are obvious not a rule but the max score seemed like something I've heard before regarding handicaps. They also didn't seem to add penalty strokes for lost tee shots.

 

 I took no mulligans as I truly want to know where I stand but I just rolled with their scoring max and recorded my own score.  Ofcourse it was all added up at the end and compared for bragging rights.

 

How do you brag about score or even care about score if you take Mullies and don't count penalties?

 

Anyways what's the deal with the max 2x par scoring im assuming it's just another weekender rule.

[Sawgrass]

Maximum Score is a legitimate stroke play format.  See Rule 21.2 for details. The rest of the stuff is made up, not my cup of tee.

[nsxguy]

Max of 2x par is an individual rule for the group. It has nothing to do with scores for handicapping purposes.

 

Max score for handicapping purposes is NET double bogey (NDB).

 

As in, if your course handicap is say, 14, on handicap rated holes 1-14, a NET double bogey would be an ACTUAL triple bogey. On holes rated 15-18, a NET double bogey would be an ACTUAL double bogey.

 

Note these are for handicap purposes and NOT for your game. Your gross score and net score are still the same. If you shoot 95, that is still your gross score. If your CH is 14 and you shoot 95 your net score is still 81.

 

e.g. If you made an 8 on a par 4 that was rated 18th (NOT a stroke hole), for recording your handicap score you would score it as a 6. For your game it's still an 8.

 

So in the above example (95), if the only hole over net double was the one I just mentioned, your 95 would be recorded into the handicap system as a 93, NOT 95

[Mudguard]

I'd say they are just enjoying a walk with some golf clubs. Doesn't sound like golf.

[tatertot]

10 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

I'd say they are just enjoying a walk with some golf clubs. Doesn't sound like golf.

As long as they stay out of my way and don't screw up the course, I couldn't care less ...

 

To the OP - if you're having fun, getting better and learning stuff, stick with you're group ... but they obviously are not sticklers for the rules.

 

If you're not enjoying yourself or feel like you're ready for a more "real" experience, cut your losses and find a new group.

 

If you're super serious ... go here and and dive in:

 

https://www.usga.org/rules-hub.html

 

 

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Double par is just a way of ending the suffering on a hole. Our work league has the double par rule as we have a  lot of guys and a few gals that arent really golfers. Its a match play format and some guys dont quite understand the concept of telling the people that with strokes theres no possible way they can even tie the hole to pick up before they reach double par.

Edited June 15, 2021 by SNIPERBBB

[Augster]

Max score is a sanctioned form of play now. Nothing to do with handicapping. 
 

As said above, NDB is the max score you can take for handicap purposes on a hole. But that’s only for what you post. What you actually shoot is often completely different if you’re prone to big numbers. 
 

The BEST way to assess your game and if you’re getting better is to play it down, putt them all out, and play by all the rules. Some people don’t find that “fun” at all. I do. It’s my favorite way to play. A true assessment of what you actually shot. Day in, day out. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Augster

[llewol007]

Like others have said, the rest of the group is not gonna watch you finish up your 12 on the par 4. The gimmie stuff happens all the time and will eventually bite them when they play in tournaments, but for a regular group, happens as well. The Mulligan is again another group thing that that your group allows. Just a lot of stuff that your group allows. When you go to actual posting scores, you would usually keep your separate score as to what is postable. 

[FreeWilly613]

This is great I have since downloaded the USGA rule app and been reading lots.  I would love to post for a handicap but I'm not confident in my understanding of the rules for that yet.  As mentioned above I take enjoyment in the process, I'd rather see where my True score is and watch it drop as I improve over taking free strokes to inflate my ego score.  

 

I will likely keep playing with the guys, its still lots of fun and I can just keep my own score also.  I'm more concerned if I go to play with some people from work or something that I'll be used to a more relaxed game and get caught in the dark and ignorant.

 

So for the record if there's no committee saying otherwise  and I shoot a 13 on a par 5 it's a 13 not a 10. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by FreeWilly613

[Shilgy]

37 minutes ago, FreeWilly613 said:

This is great I have since downloaded the USGA rule app and been reading lots.  I would love to post for a handicap but I'm not confident in my understanding of the rules for that yet.  As mentioned above I take enjoyment in the process, I'd rather see where my True score is and watch it drop as I improve over taking free strokes to inflate my ego score.  

 

I will likely keep playing with the guys, its still lots of fun and I can just keep my own score also.  I'm more concerned if I go to play with some people from work or something that I'll be used to a more relaxed game and get caught in the dark and ignorant.

 

So for the record if there's no committee saying otherwise  and I shoot a 13 on a par 5 it's a 13 not a 10. 

Yes but…depending on if you stroke on that hole your score for posting purposes is 7 or 8.  Maximum handicap is 54 so no matter what you could not post more than a 10 for that hole. 

[2bGood]

I am a total 'rules guy'. BUT if double par is relevant to your group (particularly of you are not taking penalties) - I want them playing that rule 😄. I don't want to be behind guys collectively scoring 40 on a par 3. 

 

I have always felt there is a time in a persons golf journey to get serous about the rules, but if you are scoring double par multiple times per round, in my opinion you not ready to play strictly by the rules. 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by 2bGood

[Newby]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Yes but…depending on if you stroke on that hole your score for posting purposes is 7 or 8.  Maximum handicap is 54 so no matter what you could not post more than a 10 for that hole. 

Are you differentiating between score for competition and score for handicapping? 

I don't know how the apps work over there but here we simply key in the gross score for the hole and the software sorts everything out. Competition Score (if playing in a competition) and Handicap Scores ie ndb max (for casual and competition play).

[Halebopp]

4 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Yes but…depending on if you stroke on that hole your score for posting purposes is 7 or 8.  Maximum handicap is 54 so no matter what you could not post more than a 10 for that hole. 

 

Maximum Handicap Index is 54, a player could easily have a Course Handicap north of 54 resulting in getting 4 strokes on a given hole and a Net Double Bogey of 11 on a par 5.

[James the Hogan Fan]

8 hours ago, 2bGood said:

I am a total 'rules guy'. BUT if double par is relevant to your group (particularly of you are not taking penalties) - I want them playing that rule 😄. I don't want to be behind guys collectively score 40 on a par 3. 

 

I have always felt there is time in a persons golf journey to get serous about the rules, but if you are scoring double par multiple times per round in my opinion you not ready to play strictly by the rules. 

 

 

 

This. 

 

I used to play tennis with a friend and neither of us could reliably hit an overhand serve. So we compromised; first attempt, overhand, second attempt, overhand risking a double fault, or underhand and so long as it was close to in and playable, played. A fun solution.

 

I used to be bad at bowling, so I used bumpers.

 

My significant other is a 54 handicap whose true handicap would be higher if there weren't a cutoff. I don't really count penalties, let her have mulligans, barely count her strokes, etc., because the last thing she needs is for the game to be any harder. As she gets better we'll phase out the training wheels until one day she can play by the full rules. 

 

I don't understand why other games make fun variants to assist beginners but for golf it can be so stigmatized.

 

 

 

[Blonde Line Lizard]

10 hours ago, 2bGood said:

I am a total 'rules guy'. BUT if double par is relevant to your group (particularly of you are not taking penalties) - I want them playing that rule 😄. I don't want to be behind guys collectively score 40 on a par 3. 

 

I have always felt there is time in a persons golf journey to get serous about the rules, but if you are scoring double par multiple times per round in my opinion you not ready to play strictly by the rules. 

 

 

I agree with you all the way, especially your second paragraph.  Strictly by the rules results in 5+ hour rounds.

 

If a person is double paring, using mulligans, etc. that person is nowhere near tournament/competition ready where rules are strictly enforced.

 

 

[Shilgy]

5 hours ago, Halebopp said:

 

Maximum Handicap Index is 54, a player could easily have a Course Handicap north of 54 resulting in getting 4 strokes on a given hole and a Net Double Bogey of 11 on a par 5.

Oops, you are correct. I was thinking of 54 PH being max.

 

7 hours ago, Newby said:

Are you differentiating between score for competition and score for handicapping? 

I don't know how the apps work over there but here we simply key in the gross score for the hole and the software sorts everything out. Competition Score (if playing in a competition) and Handicap Scores ie ndb max (for casual and competition play).

Handicapping only, definitely.  Count what you shoot in competition, no limit.

 Yes, there are limits in some forms of competition.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Shilgy
Clarity

[596]

I say play the way that makes it all fun.  Yep, gimmies will add strokes in a tournament.  I'm guessing most people that golf never play in a tournament.  I never have, and I've golfed for 12 years now.  When I first started playing we had a 1 mulligan every 9 holes plus a reverse mulligan each round.  The reverse allowed each player to demand that any other player retake that shot.  Drain a 50ft for putt for eagle... Nope... Don't think so.... Hit it again!!!😂.  This made for a lot of fun between our group.  

 

Yes, if you are going to have a legit cap, play by the rules. If you are like 95% of all golfers, just play the game the way you want and have fun!!  

[Augster]

It sounds like the OP wants to get better at this silly game and also wants to play “real golf”. Just like the pros. 
 

In that case, play by “all the rules” up to a set number. Double par is a good number. We used to play “triple bogey max”. Skill-wise, there really is no difference between taking an 8 on a par 4 and taking a 13. Both scores suck. Pick up and move on. It takes a lot less time to shoot 8 instead of 13. The people behind you will appreciate it. Try your hardest on the next. 
 

When you get to a skill level where double par is infrequent and you’re keeping a “real score”, then you can grind out the occasional 9 or 10. Sometimes you’ll have to for bets or stroke play events. Until then though, double par works fine. 
 

 

[2bGood]

32 minutes ago, 596 said:

Yep, gimmies will add strokes in a tournament.  

To be honest I have not really seen that despite it being the prevailing thinking on the matter.

 

About 1/4 of my rounds our tournament play and 3/4 match play (most of my non-event rounds) - so putts are being conceded in the majority of the rounds I play .

 

I notice my tournament scores are indistinguishable from my match play scores as are my putting numbers. Keep in mind though the concessions I am getting are not going to be testers if they matter as we take it pretty serous and in match play I will run one past the hole that is a 'must make'.  I am much less aggressive when putting  in stroke play. 

[SNIPERBBB]

28 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

To be honest I have not really seen that despite it being the prevailing thinking on the matter.

 

About 1/4 of my rounds our tournament play and 3/4 match play (most of my non-event rounds) - so putts are being conceded in the majority of the rounds I play .

 

I notice my tournament scores are indistinguishable from my match play scores as are my putting numbers. Keep in mind though the concessions I am getting are not going to be testers if they matter as we take it pretty serous and in match play I will run one past the hole that is a 'must make'.  I am much less aggressive when putting  in stroke play. 

There's a difference between concessions ,unless you just get waxed and don't ever get to putt, and taking 3ft gimmies in casual games.

[2bGood]

13 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

There's a difference between concessions ,unless you just get waxed and don't ever get to putt, and taking 3ft gimmies in casual games.

To be clear you are talking people deciding they don't need to putt it themselves rather v your opponent conceding the putt?

 

Agreed - big difference. 

[SNIPERBBB]

Bit of both really. I see people get very generous with giving themselves or in our work league overly generous putts to tie holes. It's one thing to give a 3ft putt when the guy can't tie hole unless you 3-jack it, bit quite another to give one to tie or worse possibly win if you miss your putt. 

 

There's guys I won't give putts to because I've seen them miss 1ft putts short in money games. 

[Sawgrass]

It may be useful to note that when taking a “most likely score” because you picked up, handicap rules tell you to take just one stroke for any putt 5 feet or less. 

[FreeWilly613]

Great input here from everyone thanks.  Personally I think at this point being so bad, if I get a baseline of my actuall score/strokes per round.  I should see the largest reduction of strokes from this point forward.  As my actual score comes down that progress will slow as it becomes harder and harder to knock off strokes.

 

I'm just a bit of a stats and data junkie and I think if I can see progress it will be nice to see trending data of my performance.  

 

If it gets to a point I'm sick of scoring the 13 stroke holes and I start Getting frustrated I may change that practice, but for now I think it's a good way to measure my improvement.

 

That being said, I've been shooting 110-120 pretty consistently scoring actual strokes at this point.  And if I do play rounds with others that have more casual scoring rounds I won't be as intimidated by what they "normally shoot" because of the "fun" elements mentioned above.

[Pepperturbo]

@FreeWilly613 At my last club I played with a group of 25+ guys @$20ea buy-in.  They had wonky rules like that.  Everyone in the group was 40+ and figured because our course was really challenging, having some local rules made it easier to win the $400-$800 pot every weekend.  I was the odd man having the lowest handi of 2, and still liked playing with those guys, but by the real rules.

 

I hear from friends, it's harder to knock off strokes around 90.  Most of the Rules of Golf used during casual play are pretty clear and easy to understand, like max score on a given hole, etc.  You should get yourself a USGA Rules book and keep it on your phone or in the bag. 

[ChipNRun]

On 6/14/2021 at 9:06 PM, FreeWilly613 said:

Max score is 2x par so par 4 max is 8 strokes.

 

Make sure you ask before each specific event.

 

In local amateur circuit, the single day events use the "double par" rule. Our multi-day tournaments, however, do not.  You have to play it out until you hole the ball.