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Power-5 college golf coaches salaries


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7 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

Coaches and players are also expected to dial for dollars to the big donors.

 

Coaches yes. Players not so much. Although that could change once NIL comes into play. 

 

Granted, my experience is just as one player at one Power 5 school, but as players we were never expected to try and bring in money or act as sales people.

 

We would occasionally invite boosters and alumni out to the course to play with us and we would act accordingly, but we were never expected to go out of our way to "entice" potential donors. 

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On 6/26/2021 at 12:30 PM, ChipNRun said:

In the area where I retired...

 

At NAIA and Div. III schools, you may or may not have a golf coach who is a fulltime employee. In the area where I live, the small-college golf coaches are either highly successful teaching pros with full summer lesson schedules, or pros at a local club.

(I'm retired college prof... Biz school)

 

On 6/26/2021 at 2:55 PM, Soloman1 said:

I have a lot more experience teaching college coaches, tour coaches, club pros and tour pros around the world. ...

 

It's what a college coach knows. Just like the distribution in any field, most are average, some are dreadful and some are really good.

 

Soloman1, you offer views from different angles into golfdom. In your geographic zone, what are the backgrounds of NAIA and Div. III program coaches? Also, do the schools have separate coaches for the men's and women's teams? 

 

(The NAIA school I taught at for awhile had a computer science prof as golf coach. He retired right before the school moved up to Div. II, after which a local golf pro took over.)

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I think a number of golf coaches tend to have their own teaching business built up, and the college work is one of their gigs.  And schools hire with that in mind.  Not to mention, the coach may want to have some freedom in how they work, and salaries are adjusted accordingly.

 

It is an interesting dichotomy because the not for taxes, I mean, not for profit status of athletic departments means they have to spend money, which has led to things like volleyball coaches making $500k, or even water polo coaches making $100k.  There is no way  these coaches would make anywhere near that if true market forces were at play, but because of needing to spend money, here they are.  It is a bit surprising golf coaches don't seem to feed at the trough to the same degree.  

 

But I've also really come to question why sports are tied to schools at all as I climb the curmudgeon hill.

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19 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

Coaches yes. Players not so much. Although that could change once NIL comes into play. 

 

Granted, my experience is just as one player at one Power 5 school, but as players we were never expected to try and bring in money or act as sales people.

 

We would occasionally invite boosters and alumni out to the course to play with us and we would act accordingly, but we were never expected to go out of our way to "entice" potential donors. 

 

Something never talked about is the Salesmanship of golf. I would guess that a smart coach recruits players who have traits that they can play with anyone and are likable.  A coach that has players who can raise money is probably more important to their salary than even winning. 

 

I have no basis for this statement just saying in the real world people get paid more if they are a source of money vs a money drain.   This why the football coaches make so much because their programs bring in a lot money. 

 

 

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On 6/29/2021 at 7:42 AM, tiger1873 said:

 

Something never talked about is the Salesmanship of golf. I would guess that a smart coach recruits players who have traits that they can play with anyone and are likable.  A coach that has players who can raise money is probably more important to their salary than even winning. 

 

I have no basis for this statement just saying in the real world people get paid more if they are a source of money vs a money drain.   This why the football coaches make so much because their programs bring in a lot money. 

 

 

 

The problem is, the football team, so long as a coach doesn't royally screw it up, is bringing in the money either way.  The salaries are a product of a)a desperate athletic director overpaying(thus creating a "market"-term used loosely due to the monopoly of the whole situation), and b)needing to spend money to stay within good standing for the not for taxes status.  

 

Look at what some schools have for lockerrooms.  Clemson has 2 indoor practice facilities for football, Kentucky has a basketball lockerroom that would make the most expensive health club on Wall Street wince.    

 

One of my big issues with the whole NCAA thing is how much money gets spent/directed towards athletics for facilities that only a half percent of the student body ever gets access to.  At least most schools' golf courses allow the students to access that, although the driving range is sometimes off limits.  

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

The problem is, the football team, so long as a coach doesn't royally screw it up, is bringing in the money either way.  The salaries are a product of a)a desperate athletic director overpaying(thus creating a "market"-term used loosely due to the monopoly of the whole situation), and b)needing to spend money to stay within good standing for the not for taxes status.  

 

Look at what some schools have for lockerrooms.  Clemson has 2 indoor practice facilities for football, Kentucky has a basketball lockerroom that would make the most expensive health club on Wall Street wince.    

 

One of my big issues with the whole NCAA thing is how much money gets spent/directed towards athletics for facilities that only a half percent of the student body ever gets access to.  At least most schools' golf courses allow the students to access that, although the driving range is sometimes off limits.  

 

 

 

 

 

The system is what it is. If you don't like it then turn Pro this is especially the case with golf.  

 

I thought a lot about college golf and ultimately I think it either works for you it doesn't.  If you like playing golf and get a degree that you want then great. If you doing golf for a scholarship you need to rethink your goals.  Do golf because it is fun.

 

I how ever would never send my kid to college just for golf. The education is important because that is how they pay you.  I would rather pay for my kids education then have them get a useless degree that they be lucky to get hired at pga superstore or end up working at starbucks.

 

Also the education and networking is the real value they bring to the table at the bigger schools.

 

With football  some coaches over the years really messed things up for a school.  Personally don't care what they pay them but it sure  would hurt to get fired if you making 7 figures and did something wrong and will never get a another job. 

Edited by tiger1873
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3 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

The system is what it is. If you don't like it then turn Pro this is especially the case with golf.  

 

I thought a lot about college golf and ultimately I think it either works for you it doesn't.  If you like playing golf and get a degree that you want then great. If you doing golf for a scholarship you need to rethink your goals.  Do golf because it is fun.

 

I how ever would never send my kid to college just for golf. The education is important because that is how they pay you.  I would rather pay for my kids education then have them get a useless degree that they be lucky to get hired at pga superstore or end up working at starbucks.

 

Also the education and networking is the real value they bring to the table at the bigger schools.

 

With football  some coaches over the years really messed things up for a school.  Personally don't care what they pay them but it sure  would hurt to get fired if you making 7 figures and did something wrong and will never get a another job. 

 

There was a study done a while ago regarding employment of students from UC schools that found that after 5 years that undergrad graduates at UCSB were earning more than undergrads at any other UC school.  It wasn't because of the quality of degree but rather because the university was considered a 'party school' that in turn developed the students interpersonal skills which translated much better to the workforce.

 

There are a million kids out there getting their CS Degrees that won't go anywhere with it simply because they can't hold a face to face conversation for more than two minutes.

 

Reddit, Discord, Social Media and Forums like this are not helping develop healthy individuals that will thrive on their own.

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3 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

There was a study done a while ago regarding employment of students from UC schools that found that after 5 years that undergrad graduates at UCSB were earning more than undergrads at any other UC school.  It wasn't because of the quality of degree but rather because the university was considered a 'party school' that in turn developed the students interpersonal skills which translated much better to the workforce.

 

There are a million kids out there getting their CS Degrees that won't go anywhere with it simply because they can't hold a face to face conversation for more than two minutes.

 

Reddit, Discord, Social Media and Forums like this are not helping develop healthy individuals that will thrive on their own.

 

I'm not sure what study you are referring to.  A quick google search (and general intuition) finds that Cal Berkeley has the highest earning undergrads by far, followed by UCLA, UC Davis and UC San Diego.  UCSB and UC Irvine are pretty much tied after those 4.

 

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/uc-alumni-work

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1 hour ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

 

I'm not sure what study you are referring to.  A quick google search (and general intuition) finds that Cal Berkeley has the highest earning undergrads by far, followed by UCLA, UC Davis and UC San Diego.  UCSB and UC Irvine are pretty much tied after those 4.

 

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/uc-alumni-work

 

Read the first line again.... There was a study done a while ago.

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On 6/15/2021 at 1:43 PM, adamscottmaster2013 said:

https://bov.vt.edu/assets/Attachment CC.pdf

 

Why do college golf coaches get paid so little?  This coach in a P-5 conference gets paid less than a recently graduated Computer Science student.  My cousin graduated two weeks ago from a public state university in Computer Science, and he accepted a job at Amazon for 125K/year, LOL...

 

You aren't looking at the full picture. A college coach's "salary" is just one part of his earnings. Schools love to keep base salary low because that is what they would pay in a buyout. 

 

A bulk of a college coach's earnings come from camp money, private teaching (not all do that), the school's athletics foundation, the golf program's booster club, and equipment providers. They also get cars, gas paid for, generous bonus structures, and multiple country club memberships. 

 

In my area, as an example, Texas A&M paid their (recently let go) women's golf coach over $300,000 a year. The new coach will make $350,000 plus camp and equipment money. That could be another $150,000 (he's also married to Stacy Lewis so money isn't the biggest concern). They just hired a new men's coach as well but I don't know his salary info yet. They each get a private plane to go recruit in and membership at Traditions Club in College Station. 

 

UT's men's coach makes $305,000 plus a ton in camp money and equipment dollars. He has 3 country club memberships, recruits in a private plane, and has a six-year contract. Their women's coach makes $225,000. 

 

LSU's women's golf coach makes $150,000 and men's coach makes $270,000. Both make good money from camp and equipment deals, recruit in private planes, and are members at U Club. 

 

I know VT gets the head coach money via the Hackin' Hokies and has raised enough that his entire program is endowed. That means he doesn't spend time raising money. Big help, too. 

Edited by ryanmonceaux
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11 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

Read the first line again.... There was a study done a while ago.


ok

 

I think the data put out by the UC itself might be more accurate/reliable
 

And trying to earn more in a future by going to a party school in order build interpersonal skills…really?  😂

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16 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

There was a study done a while ago regarding employment of students from UC schools that found that after 5 years that undergrad graduates at UCSB were earning more than undergrads at any other UC school.  It wasn't because of the quality of degree but rather because the university was considered a 'party school' that in turn developed the students interpersonal skills which translated much better to the workforce.

 

There are a million kids out there getting their CS Degrees that won't go anywhere with it simply because they can't hold a face to face conversation for more than two minutes.

 

Reddit, Discord, Social Media and Forums like this are not helping develop healthy individuals that will thrive on their own.

 

 

I know a lot kids who had large trust funds go to UCSB so I would take the study with a grain of salt.  The bigger questions is public schools vs private schools that much different. Public schools are cheap compared to private schools so getting a scholarship is not needed in the first place.

 

Coaches will tell you a education at their private school is worth more then a public school so many schools and degrees it may or may not be the case. The reality If your kid is playing golf you can most likely afford a good public school and not deal with the demands and issues that come with a scholarship.  

 

You can still play golf a lot even in college and not be on a team.

 

Edited by tiger1873
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7 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:


ok

 

I think the data put out by the UC itself might be more accurate/reliable
 

And trying to earn more in a future by going to a party school in order build interpersonal skills…really?  😂

 

We get it, you very obviously didn't go to a party school.

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10 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

We get it, you very obviously didn't go to a party school.


ha I actually attended a state flagship university that I have seen listed on some “top party schools” lists

 

I’ve just never heard a parent use going to a party school as a way to get ahead in the workplace

 

Maybe it would make an interesting experiment…for someone else’s kids

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On 6/15/2021 at 4:19 PM, heavy_hitter said:

If they don't like the pay, they are free to get a job elsewhere.  No one is forcing them to stay at that job.   Coaches in Football and Basketball get paid WAY too much. 

 

I know my Daughter's college coach got paid around $46,000 a year.  She was a terrible D1 coach.  The assistant made around $39,000 a year and he was worse than her.  Her coach was forced to resign after 2.5 years after investigation of Racism, Mental, Abuse, and Sexual Harassment.  The Assistants contract was not renewed.

 

With that said, 46K is chump change.  I don't believe any college coach should be making any more than the professors at the University.  They shouldn't be making less either.

 

 


This idea of “too much” is absurd. Putting aside the glorious principles of free markets and capitalism and just look at ROI. Alabama is a State funded university, with of course, some Federal financial influence as well. The marginal difference between Nick Saban winning a national title every other year and Mike Price doing Mike Price things, well exceeds Saban’s multi million dollar salary. When thirty million people aren’t watching big college football games, then you can claim they’re overpaid. 

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4 hours ago, Mookieb10 said:


This idea of “too much” is absurd. Putting aside the glorious principles of free markets and capitalism and just look at ROI. Alabama is a State funded university, with of course, some Federal financial influence as well. The marginal difference between Nick Saban winning a national title every other year and Mike Price doing Mike Price things, well exceeds Saban’s multi million dollar salary. When thirty million people aren’t watching big college football games, then you can claim they’re overpaid. 

I will claim what I want no matter how you spin it.    Couldn't care less who watches.  They are over paid.  The idea of anyone who doesn't think they are overpaid is not only absurd, but lacks for the individual a concept of what of values are to society.  Saban is WELL overpaid as are all coaches.

Edited by heavy_hitter

I am GenX.  If you really think I care about what you have to say, I don't.

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4 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

I will claim what I want no matter how you spin it.    Couldn't care less who watches.  They are over paid.  The idea of anyone who doesn't think they are overpaid is not only absurd, but lacks for the individual a concept of what of values are to society.  Saban is WELL overpaid as are all coaches.


I’m not suggesting you don’t have the right to make these claims, in fact, many people feel that college football coaches are “overpaid”, all I’m saying is that the claim is false... objectively. The markets dictate what an individual’s pay. I bring up Saban cause my best friend is a professor there, and much like you, was offended by the notion that Nick Saban makes 55 times more money than him, that is, until he researched the subject and realized that Saban’s economic impact is something in the neighborhood of at least $50 million per year MORE than Dennis Francione and the lost list of preceding coaches whose names I don’t remember, all the way back to the Bear. That’s $50mm more on the margin. People buy more tickets, more merch, and crucially, the well healed donors donate more $$$ when their football team wins. And the golf team... well... there’s Justin Thomas, so whoo hooo, but he’s not bringing in $50mm per year to the university. 
 

So yes, you have every right to be angry and upset, or you can try to be a remarkable individual and add $50 million of annual value to some entity and get your rightful share, your call. 

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1 hour ago, Mookieb10 said:


I’m not suggesting you don’t have the right to make these claims, in fact, many people feel that college football coaches are “overpaid”, all I’m saying is that the claim is false... objectively. The markets dictate what an individual’s pay. I bring up Saban cause my best friend is a professor there, and much like you, was offended by the notion that Nick Saban makes 55 times more money than him, that is, until he researched the subject and realized that Saban’s economic impact is something in the neighborhood of at least $50 million per year MORE than Dennis Francione and the lost list of preceding coaches whose names I don’t remember, all the way back to the Bear. That’s $50mm more on the margin. People buy more tickets, more merch, and crucially, the well healed donors donate more $$$ when their football team wins. And the golf team... well... there’s Justin Thomas, so whoo hooo, but he’s not bringing in $50mm per year to the university. 
 

So yes, you have every right to be angry and upset, or you can try to be a remarkable individual and add $50 million of annual value to some entity and get your rightful share, your call. 

Harsh and without moral clarity if this is what is called remarkable.

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3 hours ago, Mookieb10 said:


I’m not suggesting you don’t have the right to make these claims, in fact, many people feel that college football coaches are “overpaid”, all I’m saying is that the claim is false... objectively. The markets dictate what an individual’s pay. I bring up Saban cause my best friend is a professor there, and much like you, was offended by the notion that Nick Saban makes 55 times more money than him, that is, until he researched the subject and realized that Saban’s economic impact is something in the neighborhood of at least $50 million per year MORE than Dennis Francione and the lost list of preceding coaches whose names I don’t remember, all the way back to the Bear. That’s $50mm more on the margin. People buy more tickets, more merch, and crucially, the well healed donors donate more $$$ when their football team wins. And the golf team... well... there’s Justin Thomas, so whoo hooo, but he’s not bringing in $50mm per year to the university. 
 

So yes, you have every right to be angry and upset, or you can try to be a remarkable individual and add $50 million of annual value to some entity and get your rightful share, your call. 

I find myself somewhere in the middle on this topic.

 

I do find it very interesting that you say Nick Saban’s economic impact is somewhere around 50 million. If he is responsible for the 50 million does that mean his assistant coaches are responsible for zero of that? How about players like Derrick Henry, Mark Ingram, Julio Jones, Amari Cooper, Calvin Ridley, etc. You can’t tell me they didn’t bring in millions for the program. 

 

I fully understand that a good football coach can bring in more money to the university than most professors do. But to credit them Go the money the football team brings in seems disingenuous at best. Personally, it seems more accurate to say that the University of Alabama players brought in 50 million. Saban didn’t even play a snap. 
 

I would also be curious to get your thoughts on college football programs that lose money while their coaches are still highly paid. Are those coaches essentially worth negative dollars because the program isn’t profitable? 

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11 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

I would also be curious to get your thoughts on college football programs that lose money while their coaches are still highly paid. Are those coaches essentially worth negative dollars because the program isn’t profitable? 

 

No Power 5 football program loses money. West Virginia ranked dead last of the Power 5 schools in revenue for 2019 and they still brought in $19 million that year. 

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19 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

I will claim what I want no matter how you spin it.    Couldn't care less who watches.  They are over paid.  The idea of anyone who doesn't think they are overpaid is not only absurd, but lacks for the individual a concept of what of values are to society.  Saban is WELL overpaid as are all coaches.

Saban is no more overpaid than Tiger Woods, Mike Trout, Patrick Mahomes, any NBA player, Taylor Swift, the Rock or Jeff Bezos. A person is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay them.

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15 hours ago, Mookieb10 said:


I’m not suggesting you don’t have the right to make these claims, in fact, many people feel that college football coaches are “overpaid”, all I’m saying is that the claim is false... objectively. The markets dictate what an individual’s pay. I bring up Saban cause my best friend is a professor there, and much like you, was offended by the notion that Nick Saban makes 55 times more money than him, that is, until he researched the subject and realized that Saban’s economic impact is something in the neighborhood of at least $50 million per year MORE than Dennis Francione and the lost list of preceding coaches whose names I don’t remember, all the way back to the Bear. That’s $50mm more on the margin. People buy more tickets, more merch, and crucially, the well healed donors donate more $$$ when their football team wins. And the golf team... well... there’s Justin Thomas, so whoo hooo, but he’s not bringing in $50mm per year to the university. 
 

So yes, you have every right to be angry and upset, or you can try to be a remarkable individual and add $50 million of annual value to some entity and get your rightful share, your call. 

 

Seriously, you have zero clue.  While your statements are correct, your outlook is far off base.  These coaches aren't worth that money no matter what the market dictates.

 

Angry or Upset?  You lost me on this one.  

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5 minutes ago, BFD3 said:

Saban is no more overpaid than Tiger Woods, Mike Trout, Patrick Mahomes, any NBA player, Taylor Swift, the Rock or Jeff Bezos. A person is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay them.

Missing the point.

I am GenX.  If you really think I care about what you have to say, I don't.

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44 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

No Power 5 football program loses money. West Virginia ranked dead last of the Power 5 schools in revenue for 2019 and they still brought in $19 million that year. 

I stand corrected. The numbers I kept seeing were for the athletic department and not just football. Surprising that WV is last. I’m curious about other schools. Do you still have the list/article? 

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12 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

I find myself somewhere in the middle on this topic.

 

I do find it very interesting that you say Nick Saban’s economic impact is somewhere around 50 million. If he is responsible for the 50 million does that mean his assistant coaches are responsible for zero of that? How about players like Derrick Henry, Mark Ingram, Julio Jones, Amari Cooper, Calvin Ridley, etc. You can’t tell me they didn’t bring in millions for the program. 

 

I fully understand that a good football coach can bring in more money to the university than most professors do. But to credit them Go the money the football team brings in seems disingenuous at best. Personally, it seems more accurate to say that the University of Alabama players brought in 50 million. Saban didn’t even play a snap. 
 

I would also be curious to get your thoughts on college football programs that lose money while their coaches are still highly paid. Are those coaches essentially worth negative dollars because the program isn’t profitable? 


I must admit that his research wasn’t published nor peer reviewed, but he does have quite a good understanding of how to isolate variables and explore the marginal benefit, or, let’s say, he does it as well as an economist can, which is not as accurately as a mathematician or medical researcher, but it’s also not a blind guess either. But you’ve asked the right question. In this instance, a head football coach and his players are roughly akin to complementary goods, such as a pair if shoes. You may value a pair of shoes at $100, but that doesn’t mean if I offered you a single left shoe, that you would buy it for $50, in fact, unless you have a condition in which you only wear a single shoe, a single shoe is near valueless. Furthermore, two right shoes are also of no value to you. In applying this principle to Alabama football, one can say that Ridley, Julio, Minkah, Tua (Geeeez, it’s a joke to even try to name half of the great players of the Saban tenure) may not have gone to Alabama without Saban or would not have become the money making entities for the school (to the same extent) that they did become. One is able to isolate the “Saban variable” because Alabama football and star players (less, but still the Shaun Alexander’s of the world) pre-existed the Saban tenure, but didn’t bring in quite as much money. 
 

As to your second question about coaches who are highly paid but lose money, I just don’t know the data well enough. I believe  that only about 50 football teams and 20 basketball teams directly make money every year, but I don’t know enough about the indirect benefits gained by the universities such as donations to the endowment fund or increased applicants. 
 

The system of college athletics and how it fits into the university system is such a dense discussion. It’s very difficult to even agree on the facts, lets alone which principles should be applied when speaking about colleges, athletics, the teams and the individual athlete. This is why I tried to make my statement pretty narrow, so I’m not talking out my arse on a complex topic. It just seems clear to me that given the current rules of “the game”, Nick Saban is worth more annually to the university than he is paid.

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1 hour ago, Abh159 said:

 

No Power 5 football program loses money. West Virginia ranked dead last of the Power 5 schools in revenue for 2019 and they still brought in $19 million that year. 


really? I haven’t look at the data in about 5 years, but I thought some did. Either way, college athletics are odd, in many ways, they are a loss leader for the university as a whole, which is not a bad thing. I mean, Ferrari’s F1 team spent much more than they brought in from 2000-2004, but as they say, “when you win on Sunday, the people buy on Monday”, so overall it was a massive positive for the company. 

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1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Seriously, you have zero clue.  While your statements are correct, your outlook is far off base.  These coaches aren't worth that money no matter what the market dictates.

 

Angry or Upset?  You lost me on this one.  


Perhaps my “angry or upset” statement was a misplaced bit of emotion on my part, but I fully stand by the rest of my post. 
 

Nobody has shown one single data point to counter the only conclusory statement I made, which is, “Nick Saban brings in more value to the University of Alabama than he is paid by the University of Alabama.” The absents of any real argument is why I invoke the emotions of anger and being upset. You can argue against the perverse structure of the NCAA which was dealt a much deserved blow by the recent court ruling allowing players to profit of their autographs and likeness, that’s fine, but without data or a coherent argument than Nick Saban is fundamentally immoral or that his wage is greater than his benefit, the notion that he makes “too much” is backed by nothing more than ones own instinct and the timeless, ubiquitous human emotion of jealousy for the person that makes more money, has more power, owns more land, has a prettier wife or has a sharper spear than I. 

Edited by Mookieb10
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2 minutes ago, Mookieb10 said:


Perhaps my “angry or upset” statement was a misplaced bit of emotion on my part, but I fully stand by the rest of my post. 
 

Nobody has shown one single data point to counter the only conclusory statement I made, which is, “Nick Saban brings in more value to the University of Alabama than he is paid by the University of Alabama.” The absents of any real argument is why I invoke the emotions of anger and being upset. You can argue against the perverse structure of the NCAA which was dealt a much deserved blow by the recent court ruling allowing players to profit of their autographs and likeness, that’s fine, but without data or a coherent argument than Nick Saban is fundamentally immoral or that his wage is greater than his benefit, the notion that he makes “too much” is backed by nothing more than ones own instinct and the timeless, ubiquitous human emotion of jealousy for the person that makes more money, has more power, owns more land, has a prettier wife or has a sharper spear than I. 

 

Again...  you are missing the point, but go on with your rhetoric.  

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I am GenX.  If you really think I care about what you have to say, I don't.

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