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Lower spin head with forgiveness - is there such a thing?


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Low spin + forgiveness means you need two design elements; higher MOI and lower CG. This is and always has been a tough tradeoff and you need to have a good handle on why your spin is high before you

Callaway Epic Max LS....this thing is fire   coming from OG SIM usual miss was right and when I say right I mean wayyyyyy right.

Cobra Rad XB!

10 minutes ago, meh said:

Long story short, I've got angel of attack issues. I'm trying to fix them, without too much success so far. Is there such a thing as a forgiving head that doesn't spin too much? I realise these things don't go together.

Ping lst — probably spins more then more “low spin” heads 

 

OG sim and SIm2 — very low spin. So good 

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Taylormade Sim2 (set at 7.5*)Fuji ventus black 6x
Titleist TS3 18* fuji ventus black 8x 

Ping g425 4hyb at 20.5* stock Alta CB  
Taylormade p750 4-PW PX6.5 
Cleveland RTX4 50/54/58 s400 TI
Oddessey 7CS Tour 
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Low spin + forgiveness means you need two design elements; higher MOI and lower CG. This is and always has been a tough tradeoff and you need to have a good handle on why your spin is high before you start experimenting. 

If your spin is high due to strike issues then higher MOI will help more as it will lessen the vertical gear effects that increase spin. If your spin is high due to delivered loft issues (flipping) then less loft is the first thing to look at in lieu of fixing the swing issue, then finding a balance of the above elements. 

Angle of attack alone isn't the cause of spin issues, but normally the swing fault that creates it. People have the common steep/OTT problem tend to present a lot of loft and thus create a lot of spin, and equipment can only help so much. TXG did a great video on this recently that I will link below. Personally my holy grail for low CG + higher MOI is heavily modifying an OG SIM by lowering the front weight, increasing the rear weight, and adding hotmelt in front of the rear weight. Because of the SIM's sole design, this moves a lot of weight back while keeping it pretty low, which keeps the CG down while boosting MOI since the SIM is pretty middle of the road there. 
 

 

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3 hours ago, meh said:

Long story short, I've got angel of attack issues. I'm trying to fix them, without too much success so far. Is there such a thing as a forgiving head that doesn't spin too much? I realise these things don't go together.

What are you playing now? I have a NEW IN PLASTIC Cobra Amp Cell, paired with an original Matrix Black Tie 6m3 stiff shaft I might be persuaded to part with. 😎

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Cobra Rad XB!

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Cobra RAD XB 9* - AD TP 6TX/ Cobra SZ Big Tour 13.5* - Tour AD TP 8X / Callaway Apex Hybrid or Titleist U510 20* - Tour AD IZ 95X

Mizuno MP20 MMC 4,5 / MP20 6-P - Project X 6.5 / Vokey SM8 50.08F, 56.12D, 60.08M - Project X 6.0

TM TP Juno or Spider Tour Black / Bridgestone BX

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7 hours ago, Kale_m said:

Ping lst — probably spins more then more “low spin” heads 

 

OG sim and SIm2 — very low spin. So good 

 

Not to be that guy but I think LST stands for Low Spin Tech. If youre looking for something in a 460cc head that is low spin, its probably more shaft. Just get the right shaft and you may be able to get something solid. 2400ish. 

Callaway - Epic Subzero 9* Oban Kiyoshi White 68g 04

TEE - CB Pro Limited 16.5*  Oban Kiyoshi White 74g 04

TEE - CB Pro U 19* Paderson KINETIXX TS Hybrid 80

Miura - Baby Blades 4 - PW KBS Tour Black 120s

Vokey - SM7 52* 56* 60* KBS Tour Black 120s

Ping - PLD Prime Tyne 35"

Grips- Iomic Sticky 2.3 .60

 

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13 hours ago, meh said:

Long story short, I've got angel of attack issues. I'm trying to fix them, without too much success so far. Is there such a thing as a forgiving head that doesn't spin too much? I realise these things don't go together.

 

AoA is not the cause of high spin problems.  However "trying to fix an AoA problem" is a very common cause for high spin problems and likely why you haven't had much success. 

 

To successfully solve the problem you need to diagnose it properly first.    Have you checked your face impact location and consistency using impact tape or foot powder spray?  That's the first and most important step to diagnosing a high spin problem.  The second would be to get LM data.  Do you have actual LM numbers?   Club head speed, ball speed, spin, launch angle, dynamic loft and AoA are the important ones.  

Edited by Stuart_G
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6 hours ago, shoot4par said:

 

Not to be that guy but I think LST stands for Low Spin Tech. If youre looking for something in a 460cc head that is low spin, its probably more shaft. Just get the right shaft and you may be able to get something solid. 2400ish. 

Well aware of that.

 

just ping are not known to be super low spinning. 
 

you will have better luck lowering spin with the head and head adjustments then with a “low spin” shaft 

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Taylormade Sim2 (set at 7.5*)Fuji ventus black 6x
Titleist TS3 18* fuji ventus black 8x 

Ping g425 4hyb at 20.5* stock Alta CB  
Taylormade p750 4-PW PX6.5 
Cleveland RTX4 50/54/58 s400 TI
Oddessey 7CS Tour 
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low spin PLUS forgiveness seems like the Tour Edge C721 is the way to go right now. Every one who's demoed it and done a review are very impressed 

 

Personally I have a PXG Proto 9* and currently play the Gen4 x 7.5* ..... I find them both to be low spin enough while being much more forgiving than last year's SIM. That thing was a low spin killer but forgiveness was non existent lol

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PXG Gen4 0811x 7.5*.... Tensei Pro Orange 60tx

TM 300 Mini 13.5*.... Ventus Black 7x

PXG Gen4 0317 2h 18* hybrid.... Ventus Blue 9x or New Level NLU-01 18*... Ventus Black 10tx

PXG Gen2 Utility 22*.... Accra iSteel 125

New Level PF-1 Black 5-P ... Accra iSteel 125

Corey Paul wedges 52 , 56 , 60 ... KBS $-Taper 125 S+

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10 hours ago, cw1209 said:

Cobra Rad XB!

 

The RadSpeed's are very low spinning heads. I have an XB with the 80G RDX black and the spin is very noticeably lower than other "max" type heads that i have used. I also have a MAvrik Max with essentially the same shaft (Non RDX Hzrdus black) and you can visually see the difference without even being on a trackman

 

I'd say it's still a fairly forgiving head. Most 460cc heads today are fairly forgiving.

Callaway Epic Subzero 9 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Callaway Epic Subzero 13 w/Matrix Black Tie 80

Titleist TS3 20 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges w/ Modus 130

SGC #002 Flow Neck 385g

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I will reiterate what many have said here.

1. Impact location and consistency are the first keys.

2. Knowing your LM data, and your current equipment will help.

3. Low spin shaft, LOL.  So yes some shafts can "help" lower spin, but not by a ton.  Also the fact of the matter is I have seen people with High spin shafts spin them less than low spin shafts, so using a shaft to fix the issue is not a solution since no shaft performs the same for two different people.  The shaft ratings you see from manufacturers are based on robot swings and very minute differences.  Balance point, weight, profile can all affect delivery, to  produce weird effects for non robots.

 

4.  After you know where you are contacting the head and your numbers you can look at possibly different heads.

 

You will need to test at the very least against your current gamer to know what gains you may get, if you cannot go somewhere for a fitting.  Almost every box store these days have some sort of LM, even old GC2 can help if you compare to your original.

 

Heads to look at.  The Tour Edge is gaining a lot of popularity here and everywhere for it's low spin characteristics.  I have not personally hit it.  The Rad Speed was very low spin for me, but never could get it exactly how I wanted it and the look was good at address, but not my cup of tea.  The Epic Max LS is very forgiving and lower spin, and I say this coming from a Ping G400 Max, which is considered by many to be the most forgiving driver in the last 6 years or so.

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16 hours ago, meh said:

Long story short, I've got angel of attack issues. I'm trying to fix them, without too much success so far. Is there such a thing as a forgiving head that doesn't spin too much? I realise these things don't go together.

What do you mean by angle of attack issues ? 

Maybe just a tune up with a lesson is all  that is needed.



Play Golf.....Play Blades......Play Something Else.....Just Go Play.....

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18 hours ago, meh said:

Long story short, I've got angel of attack issues. 👼

 

You have my sympathy... I only have angle of attack issues...😉

 

---------------

Seriously, a person who can benefit most from low-spin has high clubhead speed. Thus, they will probably want a more aggressive head to be able to work ball.

 

But they still want to avoid the hard-to-hit driver. Past threads on the TM SLDR driver address this. Some people found this club to be the ultimate rocket off the tee - on days they could control it. Others dumped SLDR for lack of reliability.

 

(P.S. SLDR irons were great... they're in my backup bag.)

Edited by ChipNRun
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What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2020)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i-9i

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°... MD4: 54°, 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip

Ball: Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

For details see:  Pending (need protocol to embed file list).

     * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind replaced MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

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The Tour Edge C721 is THE lowest spinning, most forgiving head available. Pretty much every review will show it is lower spinning than basically anything else. Now this doesn't mean it is the best head for you. The Callaway Epic Max LS is also very low spinning and forgiving. Those are probably the two lowest spinning/high forgiveness heads.

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On 6/15/2021 at 4:59 PM, meh said:

Long story short, I've got angel of attack issues. I'm trying to fix them, without too much success so far. Is there such a thing as a forgiving head that doesn't spin too much? I realise these things don't go together.

Titleist TSi1 and Callaway B21 are 2 of the lowest spinning drivers on my wall. 

Titleist TSi3 w/Oban Kiyoshi White 6X 
Titleist TSi2 15 degree w/Accra TZ6 75 M5

Titleist TSi2 21 degree w/Accra TZ6 75 M5 

Srixon ZX5 4-6 w/KBS TGI 110 (SS 1x) @1/2" over standard

Srixon ZX7 7-PW w/KBS TGI 110 (SS 1x) @1/2" over standard
Titleist Vokey SM8 Raw 50/54/58 KBS TGI 110 (SS 1x) @1/2" over standard
Toulon Las Vegas custom w/BGT Tour 

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On 6/15/2021 at 8:11 PM, vakaviti said:

Callaway Epic Max LS....this thing is fire

 

coming from OG SIM usual miss was right and when I say right I mean wayyyyyy right.

 

 

Agree.  Epic Max LS is a unicorn

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Callaway Epic Max LS / Fuji Ventus Black 7X                  

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