Course Management Strategy

[PETERMCKEE7]

I have been averaging high 70's lately with around 4-6/18 Greens In Regulations. I have full confidence in my putting. If I could dramatically increase my GIR per round I know ill shoot in the 60's/low 70's consistently.

Does anyone have any course management strategies that they feel help/helped lower their scores? 

[getitdaily]

How many greens do you miss because you're hitting it in bad spots off the tee?

 

Do you have a stock shot that's consistent? 

 

What do you do if you have a pin on the right side from 175? Pin on left from 175?

[SNIPERBBB]

Too vague a question. Only general thing to say is don't hit clubs or shots that will put you in trouble unless you hit them perfectly. Also don't in general pick shots/clubs requiring you to hit them perfectly.

[Hawkeye77]

Improve your ball striking - that's the answer for your irons given the large number of greens missed, unless it's missing fairways in which case - improve your ball striking!  Guessing it comes down to this, but not a lot of info.  Saving 10 strokes per round?  Who knows.

[JeffreySpicoli]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 Saving 10 strokes per round? Who knows.

 

Someone's dreaming that some "tips" will get them to scratch golf. You refuse to indulge them?

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by JeffreySpicoli

[SNIPERBBB]

Really, course management can really be just simplified as DDD. Don't Do Dumb. You can get into the SG and Decade stuff for more minutia like pushing the ball as close to the hole as possible on par 5s if you don't have hazards to worry about.

[OpenPar]

Fear of going low.  By the time you're breaking 80 consistently you should be able to execute the basic shots you need to go low.  For me it wasn't range time, but learning complete focus and at first ignoring the flag and shooting at the center of every green.  Anyone should be able to 2 putt from the center of the green, so you just need 1 drive in play and 1 good iron shot per hole and that's it.  2 good shots and 2 average putts.  Not perfect, not great, not heroic, just boring and playable.  Once I figured that out and broke par for the first time, I shot 69, I preceded to shoot in the 60's the next 5 rounds and shot a 62 in a US Am. qualifying practice round, we won't talk about the qualifier though.  On Par 5's even, 2 good shots, a chip to the middle of the green and 2 putts gets you there.  On par 3's you just need one good shot.  Just take it one shot at a time starting on the tee box.  Also, being more proficient in the long game takes pressure off of your putter, if every putt is a stress free birdie putt instead of 6-10 feet for par constantly your putting will be more freed up and you'll be able to take chances.

 

Read Mark Broadie's book 'Every Shot Counts'.  Break the notion of 'drive for show, putt for dough'.  Putting doesn't do much for you if you're on the green in 4.

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

How many greens do you miss because you're hitting it in bad spots off the tee?

 

Do you have a stock shot that's consistent? 

 

What do you do if you have a pin on the right side from 175? Pin on left from 175?

Hit it to the middle of the green x2

[Krt22]

41 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Really, course management can really be just simplified as DDD. Don't Do Dumb. You can get into the SG and Decade stuff for more minutia like pushing the ball as close to the hole as possible on par 5s if you don't have hazards to worry about.

Decade is a bit more than that, but yes, essentially revolves around Don't Do Dumb. It just uses numbers to help you see why exactly it's dumb and set proper expectations. 

[robcha]

1 hour ago, OpenPar said:

Fear of going low.  By the time you're breaking 80 consistently you should be able to execute the basic shots you need to go low.  For me it wasn't range time, but learning complete focus and at first ignoring the flag and shooting at the center of every green.  Anyone should be able to 2 putt from the center of the green, so you just need 1 drive in play and 1 good iron shot per hole and that's it.  2 good shots and 2 average putts.  Not perfect, not great, not heroic, just boring and playable.  Once I figured that out and broke par for the first time, I shot 69, I preceded to shoot in the 60's the next 5 rounds and shot a 62 in a US Am. qualifying practice round, we won't talk about the qualifier though.  On Par 5's even, 2 good shots, a chip to the middle of the green and 2 putts gets you there.  On par 3's you just need one good shot.  Just take it one shot at a time starting on the tee box.  Also, being more proficient in the long game takes pressure off of your putter, if every putt is a stress free birdie putt instead of 6-10 feet for par constantly your putting will be more freed up and you'll be able to take chances.

 

Read Mark Broadie's book 'Every Shot Counts'.  Break the notion of 'drive for show, putt for dough'.  Putting doesn't do much for you if you're on the green in 4.

 

I resonate with what you say a lot as I'm not focused on pounding balls at the range anymore but really trying to dial in my focus and one thing that has been getting away is truly focusing on the middle of the green/where you want to land vs. flag hunting. Even when I set-up and take one more looks at my target, the flag will get in my view and start making me think off my intended target which leads to hesitant shots. 

[RichieHunt]

Scott Fawcett's DECADE system has helped a lot of golfers.  My work in Pro Golf Synopsis is pretty much similar in terms of the conclusions based on the data.

 

A few things I would recommend are:

 

1.  Get to know the legitimate average carry and total distance of each club using a launch monitor.

 

2.  Learn how to use Google Earth determine your best targets off the tee and on approach shots.

 

Hitting more GIR's is a good goal and better course management will help with that.  But better course management will also help you avoid hitting into hazards/OB and to stop short siding yourself.  Essentially taking those double bogeys out of play which are killers.

 

 

 

RH

[scooterhd2]

I believes its legendary college coach Mike Small that sometimes removes flags during practice rounds. The players do not know where the hole is, so the goal of the approach is to put the ball in the middle of the green. He finds it highly beneficial for elite division 1 players. Has to help weekend warriors even more. Imagine playing a quick round of golf where you drop the approach is in the center of the green. How can you not shoot par?

 

For most, getting the ball on the green means aiming back center of the green. Don't pin hunt and leave yourself short sighted. Don't club down when the pin is in the front and end up in the bunker guarding the green. And also dont get discouraged when you hit a green but are far from the pin. I see way too many players down on themselves when the pin is on the left and they hit the right side of the green on a 160 yard par 3. Celebrate all GIRs. Those are likely par holes. 

 

 

[me05501]

4 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Only general thing to say is don't hit clubs or shots that will put you in trouble unless you hit them perfectly. Also don't in general pick shots/clubs requiring you to hit them perfectly.

 

Right. Put another way: lean into your strengths and away from your weaknesses. 

 

No one shoots in the 70's without having a lot of good things happening. Your plan on every tee should be "How can I use the things I do well to conquer this hole?"

 

It wouldn't kill any of us to make a mental list of the things we know we do well. 

[xmanhockey7]

DECADE. Spend the $200 and sign up. If it’s a course management issue it’ll fix you immediately. If it’s a skill issues…well it will still help, but you’ll still need to hit the ball well. 

[hoselpalooza]

10 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Improve your ball striking - that's the answer for your irons given the large number of greens missed, unless it's missing fairways in which case - improve your ball striking!  Guessing it comes down to this, but not a lot of info.  Saving 10 strokes per round?  Who knows.

 

yup, came here intending to post a similar reply.

 

OP, how do you know course management is going to get you more GIR than improving ball striking?

[bcski]

1.  Is your driver distance leaving you to much club to hit the green with accuracy? 

 

2.  Is your driver distance fine, but severely off line, putting you in trouble?

 

3.  Is your driver distance fine, but your iron play not accurate? 

 

Figure out which of these 3 is the issue and address it with a good teacher.

[ChipNRun]

On 6/16/2021 at 4:59 AM, PETERMCKEE7 said:

 I have full confidence in my putting. ...

 

... Does anyone have any course management strategies that they feel help/helped lower their scores?

 

If you regularly break 80 and putt well, it's likely not an issue of course management. It's probably a soft iron game. The way to get more GIR is to improve your approach shots.

 

Good putting can help prevent scoring poorly... But to play scratch golf you need to drop quite a few approaches inside 10 yards each round.

 

On 6/16/2021 at 8:14 AM, Hawkeye77 said:

Improve your ball striking - that's the answer for your irons given the large number of greens missed,

 

How to improve approach shots: work some on good set-up and mechanics on the range. Then, on slow afternoons, go out on the course and work on a couple of holes for a half-hour each. Hit a few from the light rough about 170 yards out, a few from the fairway, practice a fade around the trees that crowd the edge of the landing area.

 

These on-course shots give you a realistic job preview of the approaches you will face, much better than hitting a dozen balls off a flat range lie.

 

Get your confidence working, and you will get those irons working...

[RichieHunt]

Removing the flags for practice is usually a good idea on par-3's.  For instance, for the average Tour player, they are hitting a 150-yard shot from the fairway/tee box to approximately 27-feet and about 22-feet of that is offline.  It's not uncommon for a 150-yard par-3 green to be about 45-50 feet wide.  So if a flag is say 10-feet left of center, aiming at that flag will likely mean a lot of quality shots will miss the GIR that would not have missed if you aimed at the middle of the green.  

 

And the other thing about par-3's....if you were to par every single par-3 on Tour...not making any birdies but not making any bogeys...you'd finish in the top-15 in par-3 scoring average (out of 200 golfers) for the season.  

 

 

Another thing is that a few years ago I broke PGA Tour pin locations into 6 sections...going from front to back.  And what I found was on par-3's and par-4's the scoring averages went up when the pin location was located in the front 2 sections of the green compared to the other sections.  I would have thought differently because I was thinking that the back pin locations essentially make the hole 'longer' and thus making the hole more difficult.

 

I know Lou Stagner, who works with Scott Fawcett and DECADE showed a stat where Tour players' GIR % goes way down on front pin locations than back pin locations.  To me that indicates the reason why scores go up on front pin locations...too many golfers don't play for enough distance and they end up missing short more often than they think and missing the green.  And to make matters worse, since it's a front pin location they have now short sided themselves.  

 

I don't have a problem with a player aiming at the flag, but the #1 rule is to not short side yourself.  The 40-foot putt isn't exactly ideal, but I'd take that over the potential short side scramble opportunity.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[llewol007]

That is a low GIR. The biggest adjustment for me in terms of course management that helped me shoot low 70's more consistently was looking at every hole and seeing if the need to hit a driver was needed. The course I play on is very tight and shorter in terms of length. I realized taking a 3 wood or 5 wood of the tee had me hitting more 9 and 8 irons in but I wasnt leaving myself off the fairway to where I had a 9 or wedge in but was either in the heavy rough or the the trees. That one example of course management to where you are content with say 150 in to a hole and that would keep you from trouble off the tee meaning reaching fairway bunker or if your ball veered off, being behind trouble. You gotta have a plan for every shot as to where you can miss and be okay with it. 

[JeffreySpicoli]

25 minutes ago, RichieHunt said:

I don't have a problem with a player aiming at the flag, but the #1 rule is to not short side yourself.  The 40-foot putt isn't exactly ideal, but I'd take that over the potential short side scramble opportunity.

 

A pearl of wisdom.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by JeffreySpicoli

[ChipNRun]

2 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

I know Lou Stagner, who works with Scott Fawcett and DECADE showed a stat where Tour players' GIR % goes way down on front pin locations than back pin locations.  To me that indicates the reason why scores go up on front pin locations...too many golfers don't play for enough distance and they end up missing short more often than they think...

 

I would suggest that Tour pros and average golfers have different reasons for short-pin problems. Tour pros hit the ball in with quite a bit of backspin, and may spin back off if the green has a false front of any kind. And, at the Palmetto the players were dumping shots into the front bunker on a par 3 with a short pin. Too many of the pros are afraid to hit a stiff-wristed draw that would hit the front fringe and release forward 10 yards onto the green.

 

For average golfers, I would agree more club is needed. Overestimating how far a normal (not dead-solid-perfect) 7i shot goes is the main problem.

Edited June 17, 2021 by ChipNRun

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, ChipNRun said:

 

I would suggest that Tour pros and average golfers have different reasons for short-pin problems. Tour pros hit the ball in with quite a bit of backspin, and may spin back off if the green has a false front of any kind. And, at the Palmetto the players were dumping shots into the front bunker on a par 3 with a short pin. Too many of the pros are afraid to hit a stiff-wristed draw that would hit the front fringe and release forward 10 yards onto the green.

 

For average golfers, I would agree more club is needed. Overestimating how far a normal (not dead-solid-perfect) 7i shot goes is the main problem.

That is largely not at all the reason according to Decade. It's that pros have the same issue as ams and at many times underclub assuming they are going to flush it perfectly  and thus are more likely to short-side themselves on front pins. For the most part decade has very similar aim points for both pros and ams, with different expectation outcomes based on skill/dispersion pattern

[RichieHunt]

Just now, Krt22 said:

That is largely not at all the reason according to Decade. It's that pros have the same issue as ams and at many times underclub assuming they are going to flush it perfectly  and thus are more likely to short-side themselves on front pins. For the most part decade has very similar aim points for both pros and ams, with different expectation outcomes based on skill/dispersion pattern

 

Correct.  Shot dispersion on Tour tends to be short on shots that miss to the push side and long on shots that miss to the pull side.  With the driver Tour players had a a slightly greater tendency to miss to the push side than the pull side.  With irons the misses to the push side are much greater.  Thus the short and push side miss is much more prevalent.  So when getting a front pin location it's common to hit a short and push side miss and miss the GIR altogether.  With middle and back locations that short and push side miss can still miss the GIR.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[mark m]

1 hour ago, RichieHunt said:

 

Correct.  Shot dispersion on Tour tends to be short on shots that miss to the push side and long on shots that miss to the pull side.  With the driver Tour players had a a slightly greater tendency to miss to the push side than the pull side.  With irons the misses to the push side are much greater.  Thus the short and push side miss is much more prevalent.  So when getting a front pin location it's common to hit a short and push side miss and miss the GIR altogether.  With middle and back locations that short and push side miss can still miss the GIR.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

You provide good info all the time. Thanks

 

This confirms why the right hole location on Augusta National #12 is tougher for righties, and better for lefties. Basically any hole with an angled green going away from you - from front left to back right? Phil commented after the round that some of the tough holes at Kiawah also were better for him. 

[RichieHunt]

On 6/8/2021 at 6:32 PM, jpt1101 said:

I would think Seminole is more of a “don’t call us we’ll call you” type of club. 

 

On 6/14/2021 at 8:35 AM, phizzy30 said:

How would the traditional steel shaft work in terms of a graphite putter shaft?  Are they lighter and stiffer?  I've only gamed those and while they feel fine, I'd like to experiment with graphite.  Who knows, I might save a few strokes on the greens. 

 

7 hours ago, mark m said:

You provide good info all the time. Thanks

 

This confirms why the right hole location on Augusta National #12 is tougher for righties, and better for lefties. Basically any hole with an angled green going away from you - from front left to back right? Phil commented after the round that some of the tough holes at Kiawah also were better for him. 

 

Correct.  Angled greens that go from the left side of the green being more of the front of the green and the right side of the green being more of the back of the green are green designs that give Tour players the most trouble.  

 

#18 at Orange Tree is a pretty similar.  I found that golfers on #18 at Orange Tree need to add about 6-yards to left pin locations, 8-yards to middle locations and 4-yards to back pin location in order to comfortably clear the water on all shots that were reasonably off target to the right.

 

 

 

 

RH