Flat backswing matchups

[AN1982]

I hear and watch a lot about swing matchups these days. I’m wondering what some of the swing guys on the forum think about a flat backswing and what some ideal matchups, mostly concerning grip and release, would be for this style. 

 

As for myself being on the flat spectrum and not really having much luck training it out after 25+ years of playing, should I finally convince myself to be focusing more at ways of working with what I have vs trying things that may work for upright position players. My best shots definitely come whenever I’m working the club in front of me at transition with my (trail) right palm down, the pressure transfer or shift comes naturally. For reference, I know I’m pretty extreme in to out (+7) and have a very shallow AoA, but hit the ball with plenty of distance and height for what and where I play (36* 7 iron 160 carry). 
 

When trying to force pressure to 10:30 or into my left heal, I spin out, the club gets stuck, I stand up and flip. It’s frustrating because I stand up sometimes and also probably lose a shot or two a round dead hooking the ball and would like to take those lost shots out of my game. 

[Shanker84]

If you're wanting to find the matchup for your flat backswing and the release, you might want to check out Jim Hardy's "The Release" as that's sort of his whole thing, matching up the release to your backswing plane.  He has a streaming video that you can pay for as well as a book focusing on the release but you can also find some videos on youtube that do a decent job of explaining it if you're not looking to shell out $30. 

 

He's controversial because a lot of people misinterpret his use of "one plane" just meaning that your backswing is on your shoulder plane and not necessarily that the backswing and downswing are on the same plane. He's also controversial in terms of what he says, people's feels and what actually happens in the golf swing. Lots of instructors criticize what he says happens in the swing but it seems like even more golfers seem to be greatly helped by him. 

[Krt22]

OTT slice or right tilt hook/block/duff/top

[AN1982]

21 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

OTT slice or right tilt hook/block/duff/top

Are you saying that’s the only result from a

flat backswing? 

[Krt22]

5 minutes ago, AN1982 said:

Are you saying that’s the only result from a

flat backswing? 

Those are the two typical patterns since an overly flat backswing doesn't leave you an easy path back to the ball. Fixing the core issue is going to be more fruitful than searching for a workable compensation

[AN1982]

1 minute ago, Krt22 said:

Those are the two typical patterns since an overly flat backswing doesn't leave you an easy path back to the ball. Fixing the core issue is going to be more fruitful than searching for a workable compensation

So by saying that, are all of these matchups  that instructors talk about for any swing plane just compensations? 

[JetPilot]

12 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Those are the two typical patterns since an overly flat backswing doesn't leave you an easy path back to the ball. Fixing the core issue is going to be more fruitful than searching for a workable compensation

I struggled with the same things as the OP.  Have started working left tilt and the right hip up in the backswing.  It feels different....but it also feels right.  The proof is in the pudding with the results.  

 

I've come to analyze my golf swing like an "accident analysis" by asking the "5 Why's" and finding a root cause.  There's always a chain of events, causal factors and a root cause that lead to an accident.  

 

I slice the ball, why?  OTT.  why? club is not deep enough at the top.  why?  flat hip and shoulder turn prevented a good top position. why?  and so on......

 

Eventually you get to a root cause....with a ton of causal factors along the way.  

 

Everything else results in a lot of luck to hit the ball properly.  

[glk]

Shauheen gives a good overview here - lots of details involved in individuals swings so take this as a general discussion versus specfic to your swing (assuming by flat backswing you mean laid off).

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDe0DXYpjlx/

[AN1982]

2 minutes ago, glk said:

Shauheen gives a good overview here - lots of details involved in individuals swings so take this as a general discussion versus specfic to your swing (assuming by flat backswing you mean laid off).

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDe0DXYpjlx/

Yes sir. Plenty laid off for a long, long time and I don’t think I’m changing at this point.

 

I like this guy and have followed him for a long number of years. I appreciate the link and definitely more of what I am looking for.

[AN1982]

Edited June 16, 2021 by AN1982

[AN1982]

Added a little down the line pitch video. I’ll have to get more of a full swing at the range today.

[trilerian]

17 minutes ago, AN1982 said:

Added a little down the line pitch video. I’ll have to get more of a full swing at the range today.

Is that really too flat?  Your hands are right on the shoulder.  I don't know... I guess I am kind of curious too.  

[glk]

24 minutes ago, AN1982 said:

 

Poor angle.  Camera at belly button height.  Put alignment stick on ground, set up with hands over stick.  Focus on hands.   

[AN1982]

I’m confused as well. Been playing for 25+ years, had a myriad of lessons both in person and online, no one has ever said change your backswing to this. I never really had a lesson when I was a beginner junior, just played and let athleticism take me. I was just asking for some posture, grip, maybe transition thoughts to try and get rid of an occasional duck hook as a result of my flattish backswing. 

[AN1982]

4 minutes ago, glk said:

Poor angle.  Camera at belly button height.  Put alignment stick on ground, set up with hands over stick.  Focus on hands.   

How should I set the camera? I was in the v1 app using the shadow model to line up.

[glk]

 

[MonteScheinblum]

31 minutes ago, AN1982 said:

 

That’s not overly flat…..camera angles is funny, but flat is not what comes to mind when I watch that.  It’s only a short backswing, but nothing nasty sticks out aside from pressure shift might be a hair late.  The only other observation I have is be careful the right shoulder doesn’t work down too much.

[AN1982]

4 minutes ago, glk said:

 

Awesome… Thank you!

[getitdaily]

That's not flat. I see a lower body that needs to be more active in the downswing

[AN1982]

7 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s not overly flat…..camera angles is funny, but flat is not what comes to mind when I watch that.  It’s only a short backswing, but nothing nasty sticks out aside from pressure shift might be a hair late.  The only other observation I have is be careful the right shoulder doesn’t work down too much.

Thanks monte, I’m a long time rebellion guy, just waiting for you to get closer to Pittsburgh or Cleveland to show you nasty hooks! Live online lessons available again yet?

[AN1982]

4 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

That's not flat. I see a lower body that needs to be more active in the downswing

I agree with the lower body, right now I just let it happen. Whenever I force transition in the lower body the real bad left things happen….

[MonteScheinblum]

7 minutes ago, AN1982 said:

Thanks monte, I’m a long time rebellion guy, just waiting for you to get closer to Pittsburgh or Cleveland to show you nasty hooks! Live online lessons available again yet?

Yes….hooks?  Dropping right shoulder 😜

[MonteScheinblum]

6 minutes ago, AN1982 said:

I agree with the lower body, right now I just let it happen. Whenever I force transition in the lower body the real bad left things happen….

Good call.  Forcing lower body movement to that move without a better shift and staying in left tilt a hair longer, would cause an issue.

[Shanker84]

1 hour ago, iSwing said:

 

Hardy hangs in good company, good instructor too.

 

 

 

 

Not getting the reference. Who is this? 

[AN1982]

10 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Yes….hooks?  Dropping right shoulder 😜

Inquiry sent!

[AN1982]

Couple little swings. No ball, but you get the gist…. Also, live lesson with @MonteScheinblum tomorrow! Can’t wait!

[Krt22]

Yeah I would not call that overly flat, lots of good stuff going on. Forget the peanut gallery and stick to whatever Monte says

[Soloman1]

5 hours ago, iSwing said:

 

The video presents Master's champion Jackie Burke Jr and, if I'm not mistaken, is calling out to Jim Hardy out on the lesson tee.  Listen again.

 

Jackie Burke Jr with Steve Elkington.

[AN1982]

3 hours ago, Krt22 said:

Yeah I would not call that overly flat, lots of good stuff going on. Forget the peanut gallery and stick to whatever Monte says

Thank you! I have lots of questions in general and I’m looking forward to something live with monte finally. Hopefully can get this case of the lefts knocked out.

[MonteScheinblum]

From one swing to the next.  Pretty impressive by the OP