Green-reading books likely gone from the tour next season

[ThinkingPlus]

13 minutes ago, King_Slender said:

Just reading about Rory's thoughts on it on ESPN: https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/31645621/four-pga-champ-rory-mcilroy-says-green-reading-books-banned-eliminated

 

Looks like arm-lock putting is next, which does seem to go against the spirit of the anchoring rule, as "locking" the putter to your left arm essentially creates a single anchor point of your left shoulder.  All for that too.

Actually since the ruling bodies have deemed the armlock method conforming to the RoG, then the PGA Tour can't prevent it's use unless the RBs change their anchor ruling which will open a giant can of worms and make a mess. I'm guessing the PGA Tour has already contacted the RBs for a Local Rule ala one ball rule to back the GB ban for next year.

[bcski]

Just now, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Take away green books and add one of these and that TV show called the pga tour might improve... 

I will donate a few thousand to get this rolling,  But it will never fly with the PGA

[me05501]

I definitely think it will speed up play. 

 

As far as I can tell, many players are whipping these out in the fairway as the plan their approaches and then consulting them again once they're on the green. 

 

I guess if my livelihood depended on my execution of golf shots, I'd want to know as much as I could while planning a shot. OTOH it can easily turn into a crutch or induce analysis paralysis. 

 

[smashdn]

They have their place.

 

Before the round on the range or in the hotel the night before seems appropriate.

[widow-maker]

They can ban the alignment lines on the golf ball too.  Or at least only give them one chance to align it right.  It's crazy how many times they will re-mark to move the line 1/1000 of an inch.  It all takes the vision, feel, and touch out of the game and turns them into automatons.   I'd be for a ban on swing coaches on the range once the tournament starts, too. 

[Creedo77]

1 hour ago, Par Be A Joke said:

I will disagree.  This will cause even more time wandering the greens doubting the fist, second and third look.

 

No one will know until we get to the season where they actually stop using the books.

Players will still have the breaks and degree of slope bc most will just write them in their yardage book

[golfgirlrobin]

I’ll be glad to see them gone, regardless of whether they speed up play or slow it down.  Green reading is one of the skills a course should test.  Being better at it than others should be an advantage. 

[bladehunter]

Best news I’ve heard in a fortnight.  
 

 

[Fairways_and_Greens]

How are they going to enforce this?

 

If someone wants to take a greenbook and hand copy the slopes, is that legal? Can a pro pay someone to hand copy? Can you make photocopies of hand the hand copy?

 

Are they going to review players' notes?

[bcski]

48 minutes ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

How are they going to enforce this?

 

If someone wants to take a greenbook and hand copy the slopes, is that legal? Can a pro pay someone to hand copy? Can you make photocopies of hand the hand copy?

 

Are they going to review players' notes?

As with most things the Tour and USGA do, they will over analyze it for the next 5 years and make a vague ambiguous decision that can have 100 interpretations and need 49 rules and 1,294 scenarios to explain.

 

Just a guess....

Edited June 16, 2021 by bcski

[bogeyk]

I agree with doing away with the books as green reading should be a skill tested during play.  I see this as being similar to a player lining up a shot for a full swing.  Let the caddie help pick a target, but after that it’s on the player to line up for a shot or putt. 

[Creedo77]

1 hour ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

How are they going to enforce this?

 

If someone wants to take a greenbook and hand copy the slopes, is that legal? Can a pro pay someone to hand copy? Can you make photocopies of hand the hand copy?

 

Are they going to review players' notes?

They can write whatever they want in their books and nobody reviews them 

[ThinkingPlus]

1 hour ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

How are they going to enforce this?

 

If someone wants to take a greenbook and hand copy the slopes, is that legal? Can a pro pay someone to hand copy? Can you make photocopies of hand the hand copy?

 

Are they going to review players' notes?

TSA cavity search on the first tee for players and... caddies.  Sorry @Creedo77.  LOL!

[Soloman1]

I've decided after reading this that I'm going to build sunglasses that a person (e.g. caddie) calibrates before the round to determine 3D level in a pre-determined location. Then, switched on via a small battery, a translucent aiming point, similar to a HUD gunsight in fighters, will illustrate tilt vectors from the person to the target (hole) based on GPS positioning and cloud-based terrain data.

 

I'm taking pre-orders. Call now, operators are standing by.

[stingerfade]

5 hours ago, woodriff said:

Exactly. Anything that picks up pace of play is good. Rangefinders are good. As I mentioned they just glance at these books anyway. It’s a starting point, not an ending point.

They don’t just glance at them. They sit there and stare at them even for little 4 footers. Glad they’re gone. Green reading is a skill and part of putting as the game within the game. 

[Frankensteins Monster]

Be prepared for more Monday finishes due to darkness this fall.

[Krt22]

5 hours ago, chigolfer1 said:

how much do people think this will hurt the putting stats, if at all?  Will this actually slow down the game more?

I bet zero statistically significant difference, while pace will slow down.

[Fairways_and_Greens]

2 hours ago, Creedo77 said:

They can write whatever they want in their books and nobody reviews them 

Thats my point. I can think of one golfer that will be telling is all about the science of tracing paper

[gibbiesmalls]

Does anyone have a link or pictures of what these green books look like?

 

I can't picture in my mind what advantage these books give, and I'm sure it's because I can't imagine the detail they include.

 

 

[MattyO1984]

I’d definitely be glad to see them gone. Sensible step for me.

[me05501]

It is somewhat interesting that the sources close to this decision said it wasn't even a close call, they were pretty much unanimous in their agreement. 

 

Makes me wonder if the availability of the detailed greens info was causing other issues, such as players routinely skipping the Pro-Am's, or practicing more at home versus at the tournament site, simply because they can learn the greens without having to spend the time on them. 

[Creedo77]

6 hours ago, gibbiesmalls said:

Does anyone have a link or pictures of what these green books look like?

 

I can't picture in my mind what advantage these books give, and I'm sure it's because I can't imagine the detail they include.

 

 

Google mark long greens book, he makes all of them for the PGA Tour 

[Creedo77]

47 minutes ago, me05501 said:

It is somewhat interesting that the sources close to this decision said it wasn't even a close call, they were pretty much unanimous in their agreement. 

 

Makes me wonder if the availability of the detailed greens info was causing other issues, such as players routinely skipping the Pro-Am's, or practicing more at home versus at the tournament site, simply because they can learn the greens without having to spend the time on them. 

The books aren’t 100% accurate so while you have the info most caddies who use them go out and roll balls to test the books 

 

 

[smashdn]

13 hours ago, Krt22 said:

I bet zero statistically significant difference, while pace will slow down.

 

If the presence of the books didn't speed things up, why would their absence slow things down?

 

Some folks around here use a similar argument for distance and tech.

If hitting the ball further hasn't sped up the game, why would a roll back slow it down?

If handicaps, as a whole, haven't fallen with technology, why would scaling it back cause the game to be harder/handicaps to go up?

[me05501]

6 hours ago, gibbiesmalls said:

Does anyone have a link or pictures of what these green books look like?

 

I can't picture in my mind what advantage these books give, and I'm sure it's because I can't imagine the detail they include.

 

 

 

There's a feature on the GOLF mag website that shows all the yardage book and green book pages for Torrey Pines. That'd be a great example of what a modern greens book looks like. 

 

There is definitely a video game aspect to the look of them, and they have a ton of measured data that would not be perceptible to anyone who didn't go out there and measure. For example, all the sprinkler heads are marked so you can easily calculate the distance from any sprinkler head to some other feature. 

 

Course designers spend a ton of time designing greens to not only perform well and hold up to foot traffic and weather, but to also present a challenge to the player. They design in features that make them somewhat visually deceptive so they aren't overly obvious.

 

Sensing how the entire green complex factors in to the specific putt you face is a huge part of playing skill. I think the greens books detract from that by taking the vague and making it somewhat absolute. Maybe a player trusts his senses and judgment first. But if he can look at empirical measured data to confirm his senses, or contradict them, that's a huge thing. And eventually some players probably begin to rely more on the book and less on their senses. 

[tw_focus]

This rule is absolutely useless because there is no hard definition of "green-reading book". If you or your caddie take notes about the slope of the green, is that a green reading book? Of course not, in that case, go to a transcriber and ask them to hand-copy any book you want into your own notepad. In a few hours, you have a completely Tour-legal green-reading book.

 

The Tour either needs to ban ALL written and printed material or ban none. There's no middle ground. This rule is a complete joke, I can hear BDC laughing about it 400 miles away.

[me05501]

9 minutes ago, tw_focus said:

This rule is absolutely useless because there is no hard definition of "green-reading book". If you or your caddie take notes about the slope of the green, is that a green reading book? Of course not, in that case, go to a transcriber and ask them to hand-copy any book you want into your own notepad. In a few hours, you have a completely Tour-legal green-reading book.

 

The Tour either needs to ban ALL written and printed material or ban none. There's no middle ground. This rule is a complete joke, I can hear BDC laughing about it 400 miles away.

 

Nah, disagree. If your caddie takes notes, or if you take notes, that's doing your own recon and that has always been allowed and no one would ever question that. 

 

Spending $180 to get a book of someone else's notes is way different. 

[tw_focus]

5 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

Nah, disagree. If your caddie takes notes, or if you take notes, that's doing your own recon and that has always been allowed and no one would ever question that. 

 

Spending $180 to get a book of someone else's notes is way different. 

 

You don't get it. The only difference between "your notes" and a green-reading book is a few hours of copying. That's why this rule is an absolute joke supported by people who have no idea of reality.

[smashdn]

I can get on board with no books whatsoever.

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, tw_focus said:

 

You don't get it. The only difference between "your notes" and a green-reading book is a few hours of copying. That's why this rule is an absolute joke supported by people who have no idea of reality.

Bingo. And why can't they just take the books they already have and hand write in the general slopes

 

43 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

If the presence of the books didn't speed things up, why would their absence slow things down?

 

Because the guys who have used them on a regular basis will very likely take more time reading it (vs having the basic information available). A lot of the faster players on tour are over-shadowed by the mules.