Irons for High Launch High Spin Sub 5HC

[Tommyboi95]

So, 

I’m a +3 HC, high launch, high spin player and I play in Texas. Numbers off a 7 iron are always around 21-22* launch 6900-7200 spin. So I’ve always played a “players iron” (ie 900 tour, 620mb, and now currently apex TCB). I got to the thinking the other day about the 921 forged so I went into GG today and I was blown away. So first off these irons don’t look bad at all I mean sure the blade length is a little long but not horrible. But the numbers were unreal. Yes I know I picked up yardage because the lofts are 2* stronger but same shaft I was able to drop my spin down to 6200-6400 and launch around 18-19.5. Have any of y’all ever had to switch to a larger less spinning head to get better numbers? I’m not worried about jumpers or distance consistency because I saw no issues working the ball whatsoever. Pros? Cons? 
 

Thanks!!

Tommy

[jerryo]

I would take a look at the Srixon ZX4. Fantastic iron.

[Tommyboi95]

39 minutes ago, jerryo said:

I would take a look at the Srixon ZX4. Fantastic iron.

Great option, probably just a touch too big looking for me though. Would probably side on something a touch closer looking to the zx5, t100s, 770 range 

[InsuranceGuy89]

2* stronger is a pretty sizable difference.  If you bent your current irons 2* strong, your launch and spin would come down and probably be pretty close to those numbers that the other iron gave you

[Tommyboi95]

4 hours ago, InsuranceGuy89 said:

2* stronger is a pretty sizable difference.  If you bent your current irons 2* strong, your launch and spin would come down and probably be pretty close to those numbers that the other iron gave you

Totally right but then you’re talking about adding 2* offset 

[InsuranceGuy89]

1 hour ago, Tommyboi95 said:

Totally right but then you’re talking about adding 2* offset 

It shouldnt be that much of an offset difference.  It will take away 2* of bounce though.  Im guessing from an offset visual, these bent 2 strong would still look like less offset than the 921 Forged irons

[RobS]

Srixon Z785 and ZX7's are some of the lower launching and spinning irons in the forged players CB category.  I haven't hit the 21 Callaway Apex Pro but the 19's were lower than average for spin in this category as well.  For another Mizuno iron, also look at the Hot Metal Pro's.  I generally prefer forged irons but I like the Hot Metal Pro's  more than the 921 forged when I hit them.

[TomRUtah]

My home course had a Mizuno demo yesterday.  I really like the 921 forged irons.  Compared to my Wilson Staff Model CBs, which I love, I found the 921s to be more forgiving and longer (yeah, stronger lofted clubs).  Head-to-head using the 7i, the 921 was 25 yards longer (31° vs. 34°) and launched quite high.  Shafts played a role.  921: KBS C-Taper Lite 105.  CB: True Temper Dynamic Gold S300. 

While I prefer the feedback of the Wilsons, the 921 feels good.  I think the 921s are more amenable to my swing (more of a sweeper).  I didn't get any spin numbers because the Flightscope wasn't working properly.  I was impressed enough that I ordered a complete set of 921 irons, along with the Hot Metal SW and LW.

[hammergolf]

19 hours ago, Tommyboi95 said:

So, 

I’m a +3 HC, high launch, high spin player and I play in Texas. Numbers off a 7 iron are always around 21-22* launch 6900-7200 spin. So I’ve always played a “players iron” (ie 900 tour, 620mb, and now currently apex TCB). I got to the thinking the other day about the 921 forged so I went into GG today and I was blown away. So first off these irons don’t look bad at all I mean sure the blade length is a little long but not horrible. But the numbers were unreal. Yes I know I picked up yardage because the lofts are 2* stronger but same shaft I was able to drop my spin down to 6200-6400 and launch around 18-19.5. Have any of y’all ever had to switch to a larger less spinning head to get better numbers? I’m not worried about jumpers or distance consistency because I saw no issues working the ball whatsoever. Pros? Cons? 
 

Thanks!!

Tommy

         If you are wanting to reduce spin, what ball do you play? Obviously stronger lofts will spin and launch less. From what I have found in fittings, the ball will have much more effect on launch, and spin issues then clubs will if they are lofted the same. Truth be told, loft for loft, there isn't much difference in launch or spin between smaller heads and game improvement heads. In fact, generally the game improvement head will spin slightly more because of a slightly higher cg due to perimeter weighting and bigger toplines, plus with the thicker sole, it can cause contact below the cg which increases spin. The PXG and TaylorMade heads tend to launch slightly lower and spin slightly less based than other similar heads, but its only about .5* and 500rpms of spin. I would advise you to try the AVX ball AND a maybe a P790. That combination should give you around a degree lower launch and 1000 rpms.

        If you are happy with your numbers, then play the most forgiving club you can. I still play G25 irons because they flat out perform and are SUPER forgiving. I have tried other irons and just can't find anything that is as forgiving that feels or perform better. I personally find no hinderance to playing a cavity back iron with a longer blade length. I can hit fades, draws, knockdowns, with my irons. I do not subscribe to the myth that you can't "work" cavity back irons. 

 

Titleist AVX 2020 vs. –ProV1X // Low spin golf balls - YouTube

 

BLADE VS CAVITY SAME LOFT - YouTube

Edited June 17, 2021 by hammergolf

[Tommyboi95]

5 hours ago, InsuranceGuy89 said:

It shouldnt be that much of an offset difference.  It will take away 2* of bounce though.  Im guessing from an offset visual, these bent 2 strong would still look like less offset than the 921 Forged irons

Would definitely be interesting to see how they would stack up numbers wise for sure 

[Tommyboi95]

2 hours ago, hammergolf said:

         If you are wanting to reduce spin, what ball do you play? Obviously stronger lofts will spin and launch less. From what I have found in fittings, the ball will have much more effect on launch, and spin issues then clubs will if they are lofted the same. Truth be told, loft for loft, there isn't much difference in launch or spin between smaller heads and game improvement heads. In fact, generally the game improvement head will spin slightly more because of a slightly higher cg due to perimeter weighting and bigger toplines, plus with the thicker sole, it can cause contact below the cg which increases spin. The PXG and TaylorMade heads tend to launch slightly lower and spin slightly less based than other similar heads, but its only about .5* and 500rpms of spin. I would advise you to try the AVX ball AND a maybe a P790. That combination should give you around a degree lower launch and 1000 rpms.

        If you are happy with your numbers, then play the most forgiving club you can. I still play G25 irons because they flat out perform and are SUPER forgiving. I have tried other irons and just can't find anything that is as forgiving that feels or perform better. I personally find no hinderance to playing a cavity back iron with a longer blade length. I can hit fades, draws, knockdowns, with my irons. I do not subscribe to the myth that you can't "work" cavity back irons. 

 

Titleist AVX 2020 vs. –ProV1X // Low spin golf balls - YouTube

 

BLADE VS CAVITY SAME LOFT - YouTube

So I currently game the Prov1x- and the ‘21 prov1. The Avx for me here out in Houston is just not enough spin around the greens but definitely another variable to consider during all this 

[Tommyboi95]

5 hours ago, TomRUtah said:

My home course had a Mizuno demo yesterday.  I really like the 921 forged irons.  Compared to my Wilson Staff Model CBs, which I love, I found the 921s to be more forgiving and longer (yeah, stronger lofted clubs).  Head-to-head using the 7i, the 921 was 25 yards longer (31° vs. 34°) and launched quite high.  Shafts played a role.  921: KBS C-Taper Lite 105.  CB: True Temper Dynamic Gold S300. 

While I prefer the feedback of the Wilsons, the 921 feels good.  I think the 921s are more amenable to my swing (more of a sweeper).  I didn't get any spin numbers because the Flightscope wasn't working properly.  I was impressed enough that I ordered a complete set of 921 irons, along with the Hot Metal SW and LW.

So I tested the JPX 921 forged with LZ 6.5 (which I know aren’t the most Low/Low combo) but they really feel the best IMO. Other shafts I wish I could get my hands on are the PX LS and the DG x7s

[Mookieb10]

I am not as low of a handicap nor do I fight spin, but I’d like to throw my two dimes in. I understand you like what you saw in the numbers, but the sole difference is substantially different between the 921 forged and the three previous irons you’ve mentioned. The advice given must be commensurate with your approach the golf gear. If you don’t mind buying clubs for $1,200 and then selling them at a loss if you don’t like them, then go for it. If that notion bothers you, I’d think you might order an iron or two to try out, or as someone mentioned above, try the ZX7, which; 1) are notoriously lower spinning, 2) are a little closer in style to what you’ve previously played; and 3) have a sole that play as thin as the clubs you’ve previously played. 

[Tommyboi95]

8 minutes ago, Mookieb10 said:

I am not as low of a handicap nor do I fight spin, but I’d like to throw my two dimes in. I understand you like what you saw in the numbers, but the sole difference is substantially different between the 921 forged and the three previous irons you’ve mentioned. The advice given must be commensurate with your approach the golf gear. If you don’t mind buying clubs for $1,200 and then selling them at a loss if you don’t like them, then go for it. If that notion bothers you, I’d think you might order an iron or two to try out, or as someone mentioned above, try the ZX7, which; 1) are notoriously lower spinning, 2) are a little closer in style to what you’ve previously played; and 3) have a sole that play as thin as the clubs you’ve previously played. 

No I mean totally understand where you are coming from. I’m going tomorrow back to do a little bit more testing with the 921 tour with a LS and I’ll definitely give the Zx7 a look for sure I mean if they’re good enough for Brooks more than good enough for us 

[Tommyboi95]

16 hours ago, Mookieb10 said:

I am not as low of a handicap nor do I fight spin, but I’d like to throw my two dimes in. I understand you like what you saw in the numbers, but the sole difference is substantially different between the 921 forged and the three previous irons you’ve mentioned. The advice given must be commensurate with your approach the golf gear. If you don’t mind buying clubs for $1,200 and then selling them at a loss if you don’t like them, then go for it. If that notion bothers you, I’d think you might order an iron or two to try out, or as someone mentioned above, try the ZX7, which; 1) are notoriously lower spinning, 2) are a little closer in style to what you’ve previously played; and 3) have a sole that play as thin as the clubs you’ve previously played. 

Alright so interesting find today mook. So I went into the shop today and the Srixon rep was there and I hit the ZX7 but only had the 6.0. Numbers were really good possibly going that route with a 6.5 LZ hard stepped 

[Pepperturbo]

@Tommyboi95 I just looked at the specs of your current Apex TCB irons and 921 Forged.  Your TCB irons are 1' strong compared to my 620 MBs.  Increasing your current TCB loft by "X" to match loft of 921 Forged shouldn't make offset as noticeable as 921 stock offset. 

 

It would be easy to make that adjustment and see if it comparably improves your numbers.  Course, you may be so excited about 921 that you're pulling the trigger, regardless.   Either way, good luck with it.

[Tommyboi95]

15 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

@Tommyboi95 I just looked at the specs of your current Apex TCB irons and 921 Forged.  Your TCB irons are 1' strong compared to my 620 MBs.  Increasing your current TCB loft by "X" to match loft of 921 Forged shouldn't make offset as noticeable as 921 stock offset. 

 

It would be easy to make that adjustment and see if it comparably improves your numbers.  Course, you may be so excited about 921 that you're pulling the trigger, regardless.   Either way, good luck with it.

Thanks turbo! Well not sure if you saw my comment about trying the ZX7 but that kinda seems like a best of both worlds situation, got the leading edge grind like the 620s, but a 32* 7 irons

 

seems like a perfect storm 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Tommyboi95

[DeCuchi]

23 hours ago, InsuranceGuy89 said:

It shouldnt be that much of an offset difference.  It will take away 2* of bounce though.  Im guessing from an offset visual, these bent 2 strong would still look like less offset than the 921 Forged irons

 

2 degrees of loft will probably add about a millimeter of offset.

[Pepperturbo]

2 minutes ago, Tommyboi95 said:

Thanks turbo! Well not sure if you saw my comment about trying the ZX7 but that kinda seems like a best of both worlds situation, got the leading edge grind like the 620s, but a 32* 7 irons

 

seems like a perfect storm 

K...

 

I've seen Srixon ZX7.  They b juiced compared to my lofts.  LOL  Nice looking club though.  I've seen them up close.  The leading edge with V-sole brings more bounce to turf, and offset seems similar to 921.  The other question is availability... Srixon has been struggling with supply chain issues.  Hope you have a vendor that has them in stock. 

[Tommyboi95]

33 minutes ago, DeCuchi said:

 

2 degrees of loft will probably add about a millimeter of offset.

Okay good to know!

[Tommyboi95]

28 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

K...

 

I've seen Srixon ZX7.  They b juiced compared to my lofts.  LOL  Nice looking club though.  I've seen them up close.  The leading edge with V-sole brings more bounce to turf, and offset seems similar to 921.  The other question is availability... Srixon has been struggling with supply chain issues.  Hope you have a vendor that has them in stock. 

Yeah well I’m allowing myself 6-8 weeks no matter what

 

The

what sticks do you play

[Pepperturbo]

On 6/18/2021 at 1:55 PM, Tommyboi95 said:

Yeah well I’m allowing myself 6-8 weeks no matter what

 

The

what sticks do you play

Titleist 620 MB's and CB's.  CBs are designed to blend with MBs.  Both are progressive length blades, low bounce and camber, and nearly zero offset, nice turf interacting leading edge, with traditional lofts.  Offset is so low, adding two degrees wouldn't be all that noticeable.

[Tommyboi95]

8 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Titleist 620 MB's and CB's.  CBs are designed to blend with MBs.  Both are progressive length blades, low bounce and camber, and nearly zero offset, nice turf interacting leading edge, with traditional lofts.  Offset is so low, adding two degrees wouldn't be all that noticeable.

Oh yeah I played the MBs and blended them with the t100

[Tommyboi95]

So not sure that anyone cares but I look my TCB 7 iron in and found out the loft was 34* so I bent it down to a 31* to compare it straight up against the Forged and the ZX7 and the forged was the longest but no where near the most accurate, the TCBs were reaaally good but the ZX7 are just flat out everything I want in an iron. Easy to hit, fast, spun less and on average 3 mph faster ballspeed wise. So I'm getting in touch in the rep tomorrow to lock down a set with the PX LZ 6.5 hard stepped

[TJ83]

I'm a higher speed and spin player. I live on an island and it's windy most of the year. I've always struggled to find a good combo of clubhead and shaft to allow me to have more control. I have found the ultimate setup and it's the srixon zx7's with dg x7 shafts. For the first time im able to hit a nice mid high flight for a stock shot but have have ability to hit it high or really low with no issues. Spin is more than adequate and I also use the Bridgestone bx ball which has helped control my backspin as well. The zx7's are great irons, and they are surprisingly forgiving too