GUR and Old Cup Holes

[Augster]

13 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

So... you have two holes, one in use and the other covered with this 'lid'. That means two drills are needed to fill those holes when Monday comes. Where do they get those two drills as the ones drilled out for the weekend must be dry by now?

 

I do not get it... 

 

 

The holes never get moved. They are in the green for the winter. 
 

The “hole location” moves every so often so the grass around one specific hole doesn’t get worn down to nothing. The greens keepers, in this case, cut 3 holes into each green with cups. One front, one middle, one back. Then they leave them there all winter. For daily play, they cover two of the holes not in use with astroturf plugs and put a flag in the 3rd one. 
 

Then, when they decide to change pin locations, the greens keeper takes the flag from one hole and swaps it with the astroturf of another hole. Done. The pin location has been “moved” and no real work needs to be done. 

[Mr. Bean]

49 minutes ago, Augster said:

 

 

The holes never get moved. They are in the green for the winter. 
 

The “hole location” moves every so often so the grass around one specific hole doesn’t get worn down to nothing. The greens keepers, in this case, cut 3 holes into each green with cups. One front, one middle, one back. Then they leave them there all winter. For daily play, they cover two of the holes not in use with astroturf plugs and put a flag in the 3rd one. 
 

Then, when they decide to change pin locations, the greens keeper takes the flag from one hole and swaps it with the astroturf of another hole. Done. The pin location has been “moved” and no real work needs to be done. 

 

Thanks for the explanation. For the entire winter I get that but for a weekend?

 

Well, we do not have that kind of system as there is snow on the greens in winter 😂

[antip]

14 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

So... you have two holes, one in use and the other covered with this 'lid'. That means two drills are needed to fill those holes when Monday comes. Where do they get those two drills as the ones drilled out for the weekend must be dry by now?

 

I do not get it... 

In our case, it works like this: around half the holes on the course have two holes cut on those greens, one hole 'live' and one with the artificial turf cover (in reserve). The course keeps that same arrangement for an extended period, so there are no turf plugs sitting around drying out.  Overall, the number of new holes cut each week matches the number of holes filled/moved. If a 'one hole' green changes to a 'two hole' green, then a plug migrates from one green to another.

From the play perspective, it just means some greens have the artificial turf holes (IOs) and others do not.

 

[Mr. Bean]

18 minutes ago, antip said:

In our case, it works like this: around half the holes on the course have two holes cut on those greens, one hole 'live' and one with the artificial turf cover (in reserve). The course keeps that same arrangement for an extended period, so there are no turf plugs sitting around drying out.  Overall, the number of new holes cut each week matches the number of holes filled/moved. If a 'one hole' green changes to a 'two hole' green, then a plug migrates from one green to another.

From the play perspective, it just means some greens have the artificial turf holes (IOs) and others do not.

 

 

How often new holes are drilled in the summer / in the winter ?

[antip]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

How often new holes are drilled in the summer / in the winter ?

It is rare for any hole to be in place for more than a week throughout the year. Having the second holes available for some greens streamlines the overtime payments to staff that do some hole changing during the weekend. 

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, antip said:

It is rare for any hole to be in place for more than a week throughout the year. Having the second holes available for some greens streamlines the overtime payments to staff that do some hole changing during the weekend. 

 

That is quite seldom. During summer we change the hole locations every 2-3 days.

[Newby]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

That is quite seldom. During summer we change the hole locations every 2-3 days.

As do we for the main greens summer and winter. If we are using the temporary winter greens (eg if the mains are out of play due to a hard frost or are very wet) we use the two hole idea and move the plastic felt topped plugs as needed. These temp greens are in the fairway, cut short and offset to the side.

[North Butte]

I've seen large areas of dead grass (actually it was just bare mud) on a couple of putting greens outlined in white paint and treated as GUR. Never was sure if that was strictly allowed under the Rules but it was kind of weird. They had signs posted telling you not to step on the GUR areas so I reckon they had no choice but mark them GUR. 

[DaveLeeNC]

This brings back interesting memories. When I learned golf in IttyBittyTown, Mo. in the early 1960's, both of the local (9 hole) muni courses had sand greens. Then in around 1964 they converted to grass greens. I thought they were great but they were probably dog-patch greens by today's standards. 

 

And they moved the cups maybe once a season. I'll swear that those 4.5 inch holes were maybe 3.5 inches (grass overgrowing the edges) by the time they were moved. We also played pretty strict "it is good if it is inside the leather" gimme's. Making a 2 foot putt was actually pretty hard at times. That is how we played golf back then. 

 

dave

 

ps. When the cups were moved everyone got all excited.

Edited June 21, 2021 by DaveLeeNC

[rogolf]

49 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

This brings back interesting memories. When I learned golf in IttyBittyTown, Mo. in the early 1960's, both of the local (9 hole) muni courses had sand greens. Then in around 1964 they converted to grass greens. I thought they were great but they were probably dog-patch greens by today's standards. 

 

And they moved the cups maybe once a season. I'll swear that those 4.5 inch holes were maybe 3.5 inches (grass overgrowing the edges) by the time they were moved. We also played pretty strict "it is good if it is inside the leather" gimme's. Making a 2 foot putt was actually pretty hard at times. That is how we played golf back then. 

 

dave

 

ps. When the cups were moved everyone got all excited.

That's the way I learned also, in the same timeframe.  In fact, I was on the greens crew in 1964 when we converted 10 of 18 greens from sand to grass.

Edited June 21, 2021 by rogolf

[DaveLeeNC]

37 minutes ago, rogolf said:

That's the way I learned also, in the same timeframe.  In fact, I was on the greens crew in 1964 when we converted 10 of 18 greens from sand to grass.

 

Re: Gimme's Good Inside the Leather. 

 

@rogolf unless there were child labor issues in your area back then, you are even older than me 🙂

 

So here is a good rules question. Did all of the ball have to be inside the leather or just part of it? When we played all of the ball had to be inside the leather and I don't recall anyone thinking of buying a longer putter just to get more gimme's. But there were no long putters back then so it would have only been an inch or two. 

 

dave

[rogolf]

20 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

Re: Gimme's Good Inside the Leather. 

 

@rogolf unless there were child labor issues in your area back then, you are even older than me 🙂

 

So here is a good rules question. Did all of the ball have to be inside the leather or just part of it? When we played all of the ball had to be inside the leather and I don't recall anyone thinking of buying a longer putter just to get more gimme's. But there were no long putters back then so it would have only been an inch or two. 

 

dave

"inside the leather", imo, was within the length of the grip (which were originally leather), ie, 12 inches or so.

Edited June 21, 2021 by rogolf

[Mr. Bean]

53 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

Re: Gimme's Good Inside the Leather. 

 

@rogolf unless there were child labor issues in your area back then, you are even older than me 🙂

 

So here is a good rules question. Did all of the ball have to be inside the leather or just part of it? When we played all of the ball had to be inside the leather and I don't recall anyone thinking of buying a longer putter just to get more gimme's. But there were no long putters back then so it would have only been an inch or two. 

 

dave

 

That is not a rules question as there is no such Rule 😎

 

Besides, isn't the 'leather' the grip? Thus 'inside the leather' would mean the length of the grip, not the putter.

 

I remember there was some discussion about this a while back and at least what I can find from the www is this explanation:

 

https://www.golfcompendium.com/2020/04/inside-the-leather.html

 

I guess the 'modern' meaning is due to greens of better quality than in the 'good ol' days' 100+ years ago.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Mr. Bean

[Newby]

57 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

That is not a rules question as there is no such Rule 😎

 

Besides, isn't the 'leather' the grip? Thus 'inside the leather' would mean the length of the grip, not the putter.

 

I remember there was some discussion about this a while back and at least what I can find from the www is this explanation:

 

https://www.golfcompendium.com/2020/04/inside-the-leather.html

 

I guess the 'modern' meaning is due to greens of better quality than in the 'good ol' days' 100+ years ago.

 

 

No. Players (cheaters) just want easier putts.

[Sawgrass]

3 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

. . . I'll swear that those 4.5 inch holes . . . 

Say it isn’t so, Dave!

[North Butte]

4 minutes ago, Newby said:

No. Players (cheaters) just want easier putts.

It's interesting to hear people (including some I've played golf with) get all lawyer-like debating the finer points of made-up rules like "Inside the Leather" or "Roll Them But Only From Divots In The Fairway" or "Relief From Footprints In Bunker".

 

That's the problem, once you establish that you're more interested in avoiding miss putts and bad shots than you are about actually playing golf there's always someone who will take it one more step, then one more. 

 

I played one summer at a public course near my parents home (long story but I had to be on that side of town a lot and wanted to play golf nearby) so I tried joining up with the regular weekend men's group there. They told me to speed up play, any ball lost in the woods you could drop back in play and take a one shot penalty.

 

I didn't particularly like it but I went along the few times I played with them. I quickly figured out their "Decision" on their made-up "Rule" amounted to hit it in the woods, don't even go look for it then drop it in the fairway around the 100 yard marker and announce you're lying two. They man-splained to me that when they used to try to figure out where they should take the drop it was always a long argument so they just put them back in the fairway and got on with things. 

 

I decided to play solo after a few rounds of that. Not to mention the time I lost a match on the final hole because my opponent gave himself a free drop. I was on the green 40 feet from the hole. He hit his approach into a bush 20 yards over the green. Apparently ornamental bushes were treated like immovable obstructions. So he marched forward and dropped his ball in the fringe and said to me, "I think you're away". Yikes!

 

When I complained after that round I was told, "Hey, we're just playing for fun. No need to get picky about the rules.". But the dude took my $5 anyway, just for the fun of it I guess. 

[DaveLeeNC]

45 minutes ago, Sawgrass said:

Say it isn’t so, Dave!

 

SG, it is kinda' so. The only golf that I played back then (outside my circle of friends which was 90% my Dad and his friends) was our HS golf team. You will be relieved to know that we putted out in those cases 🙂

 

dave

[DaveLeeNC]

2 hours ago, rogolf said:

"inside the leather", imo, was within the length of the grip (which were originally leather), ie, 12 inches or so.

 

We using the term in the context of the 'inner side of the putter WRT a leather grip'. But maybe we were so bad that we didn't even know the proper name for the cheating that we had institutionalized 🙂

 

dave

[Mr. Bean]

16 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

SG, it is kinda' so. The only golf that I played back then (outside my circle of friends which was 90% my Dad and his friends) was our HS golf team. You will be relieved to know that we putted out in those cases 🙂

 

dave

 

I guess Sawgrass was referring to the diameter of the hole...

[DaveLeeNC]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I guess Sawgrass was referring to the diameter of the hole...

 

Oops - what is a quarter inch between friends. dave

[Mr. Bean]

8 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

Oops - what is a quarter inch between friends. dave

 

Not to mention half an inch...

[North Butte]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Not to mention half an inch...

You know the old saying, give them a quarter inch and they'll take a half.

 

Or something like that.