Taylormade SIM2 OUT Callaway Epic Max LS IN

[Cactus Jack]

I've tested every 2021 driver and in my hands the Epic Max LS and SIM2 are the standout performers. I gamed the SIM2 for most of the season, but switched over to the LS a few months back for the reasons listed below. However, everything boils down to confidence, and ultimately I'm more confident with the LS. 

 

A few reasons I moved from the SIM2 to the LS:

 

Sliding Weight: My swing is a work in progress. I'm taking lessons, trying to play a lot of golf, and as a result my mechanics are very fluid. As such, the sliding weight has become a much appreciated safety net/crutch/band aid. I don't care what you call it, but for me, the ability to dial in a bit of protection has paid dividends. While the SIM is fantastic, if my swing is off and everything hooking off the planet, I'm dead. I'll still hit monster hooks with the LS, but with the weight in the toe I know the ball won't leave the solar system. 

 

One Way Miss: While my primary miss is left, every once it a while with the SIM2 I'd send one way right. Maybe this would occur 1 in 15 swings, but it was certainly in the back of my mind. Between the sliding weight in the LS and hosel combinations I've been able to all but eliminate the right miss. I haven't eliminated 50% of the fairway, but the LS has allowed me to cut it down to a 70% window. 

 

Forgiveness: Compared to the SIM2 I found the LS to be more forgiving in general, but much more so on the high toe. In my hands the LS is as forgiving as any driver I've played, and in many ways is simply a better sounding Ping G425 Max. 

 

With all that said, the raw performance between the two clubs is nearly identical. Below are a few shaft shootout tests I performed, and my raw results are very similar. Honestly, I could game either driver, the Cally just edged the TM in my hands. However, had the SIM2 included a sliding weight it most likely would still be in my bag. I love/prefer the way the SIM2 looks, sounds, feels, but it's just missing that little bit of flexibility the LS provides. 

 

What do you think? Have you tried both drivers? Which did you prefer and why?

 

LS Shaft Shootout Thread:

 

SIM2 Shaft Shootout Thread:

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Cactus Jack

[Htk084]

AWESOME thread. Thank you for the info. Were any of those shaft option on the callaway a stock option?  Also, what loft did you go with on the cally?  Sorry if you mentioned already

[Cactus Jack]

47 minutes ago, Htk084 said:

AWESOME thread. Thank you for the info. Were any of those shaft option on the callaway a stock option?  Also, what loft did you go with on the cally?  Sorry if you mentioned already

The IM10 and RDX are stock offerings and the Yellow is a slight up charge. 
 

I play the 10.5* head lofted down to 9.5*. Lofting down opens the face slightly which suites my eye. Also, I played the SIM2 9.5* so I’m just comfortable in that launch window. 

[Cactus Jack]

19 minutes ago, Navistar said:

Exact same story here. This past week has been hitting the sim 2 and epic max ls on course and on monitor multiple times and the sim 2 would outperform my current ping g400 sft but the epic max ls beat it out in large part because of the sliding weight, better to look at and just had a touch that I liked. Sorry to me the sim 2 is hideous but bet your a** I would play it if it was the best. But so ugly 

The sliding weight flat out works for my game. 
 

I’m surprised TM went away from it since they popularized the tech with great success. I suppose Mizuno, Tour Edge etc, dropped it too. Maybe it was a fad that will go the way of the Dodo. I suppose to that point I’m equally surprised Callaway came back to it after a year off. I can’t wait to see the 2022 has in store!
 

I could see better players setting it once and never touching it again, but for a weekend hacker like me, the weight is a difference difference maker. 

[Htk084]

1 hour ago, Cactus Jack said:

The IM10 and RDX are stock offerings and the Yellow is a slight up charge. 
 

I play the 10.5* head lofted down to 9.5*. Lofting down opens the face slightly which suites my eye. Also, I played the SIM2 9.5* so I’m just comfortable in that launch window. 

That’s awesome.  What was the g425 LST like for you?  I was between that and the max ls

[Bridges]

I had planned to do a comparison of all 3 Callaway drivers this year. The Max, Speed and Max LS. I put the Max and LS on order the day they were released but held off on the Speed because it seems so similar to the std. Mavrik. The LS was delivered several weeks before the Max and it kicked the poor Mavrik to the curb on the first outing. I could tell immediately it was going to be a good fit and by the time the Max showed up the LS was dialed in and performing at a very high level. The max is for sale without ever hitting a ball and the Speed will not get an audition. The Max LS is simply the best driver that I have ever played and I will not be trying anything else if I can keep hitting it like this.

 

[Cactus Jack]

7 hours ago, Htk084 said:

That’s awesome.  What was the g425 LST like for you?  I was between that and the max 

 

I found the G425 driver, and fairway woods, to be distractingly loud. While I love the looks, and the performance is awesome, getting over the sound would be like asking me to get over a closed club face at address. I can’t do it, and it’s my loss because Ping equipment is phenomenal. 

 

 

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, Bridges said:

I had planned to do a comparison of all 3 Callaway drivers this year. The Max, Speed and Max LS. I put the Max and LS on order the day they were released but held off on the Speed because it seems so similar to the std. Mavrik. The LS was delivered several weeks before the Max and it kicked the poor Mavrik to the curb on the first outing. I could tell immediately it was going to be a good fit and by the time the Max showed up the LS was dialed in and performing at a very high level. The max is for sale without ever hitting a ball and the Speed will not get an audition. The Max LS is simply the best driver that I have ever played and I will not be trying anything else if I can keep hitting it like this.

 

I love the custom colors! I’ve crafted that exact combo many times. Curious, do they change the metal flake in the crown from green to black/red too?

 

This is my first “in the bag” Callaway. Honestly, Cally never grabbed my attention, and at their price point I’ve ignored them a bit for the past few years. However, the LS beat out every driver I threw at it. I tested on Trackmans, GC Quads, indoors, outdoors, on course, and the LS always came out on top. All the new drivers perform well, but while some might score high marks in a certain area, I found the LS to be class leading multiple areas. The LS is simply a great driver. 

[Htk084]

3 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

 

Yeah the Pings are quite different in sound, I need to hear it in person.  How was the distance for you with the LST compared to the callaway?

[Cactus Jack]

7 minutes ago, Htk084 said:

Yeah the Pings are quite different in sound, I need to hear it in person.  How was the distance for you with the LST compared to the callaway?

The Ping produced great ball speed and distance. Honestly, all the drivers I tested were +/- 3-4 mph between them. The noticeable difference was launch and spin. For my swing I’d hit a few shots with too little spin resulting in bad hooks that would snap out of the air. 

[Htk084]

16 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

The Ping produced great ball speed and distance. Honestly, all the drivers I tested were +/- 3-4 mph between them. The noticeable difference was launch and spin. For my swing I’d hit a few shots with too little spin resulting in bad hooks that would snap out of the air. 

Oh ok, I was kind of feeling like the callaway had a distance advantage 

[Cactus Jack]

28 minutes ago, Htk084 said:

Oh ok, I was kind of feeling like the callaway had a distance advantage 

The Cally for me does have a distance advantage due to the launch conditions. I can launch the Cally higher and spin it in an ideal window. I couldn’t consistently achieve that with the Ping.
 

The tech in all drivers is so good and the manufacturers have basically maxed everything out. As such, for me it came down to finding the driver which produced the best launch at the highest ball speed. Both the SIM2 and LS we’re stand out performers, with the LS taking the win for the reasons mentioned above. In my hands the Ping was good, but definitely a second/third tier performer. For other, it migh the clear winner. 

[Flip4000]

18 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

The sliding weight flat out works for my game. 
 

I’m surprised TM went away from it since they popularized the tech with great success. I suppose Mizuno, Tour Edge etc, dropped it too. Maybe it was a fad that will go the way of the Dodo. I suppose to that point I’m equally surprised Callaway came back to it after a year off. I can’t wait to see the 2022 has in store!
 

I could see better players setting it once and never touching it again, but for a weekend hacker like me, the weight is a difference difference maker. 

I am not shocked at all Taylormade went away from it. As someone who had an original sim that was recently replaced with a sim 2 due to a crack on the weight track, I would guess it was an area of failure on the club. 

 

[getitdaily]

19 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

The sliding weight flat out works for my game. 
 

I’m surprised TM went away from it since they popularized the tech with great success. I suppose Mizuno, Tour Edge etc, dropped it too. Maybe it was a fad that will go the way of the Dodo. I suppose to that point I’m equally surprised Callaway came back to it after a year off. I can’t wait to see the 2022 has in store!
 

I could see better players setting it once and never touching it again, but for a weekend hacker like me, the weight is a difference difference maker. 

The sliding weight is huge for me...in sim. I don't mess with it after setting it, but using it to dial in my flight is huge. I tried sim2 and sold it. It performs, but I needed the front weight in the toe. Hope tm brings moveable weight back.

[Tommyboi95]

So surprised TM didn't do any kind of moveable weight, I really think it hurt them this year. I'm playing the TD LS and it has been the best driver I've hit in years

[Bridges]

21 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

I love the custom colors! I’ve crafted that exact combo many times. Curious, do they change the metal flake in the crown from green to black/red too?

 

 

Mine has the clean crown option that has been discontinued by Callaway. I wonder why? It does not have any metal flake green or otherwise. 

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Bridges

[AcesAndHoles]

You guys aren't making this any easier for me. I hit the LS blind on course and it was love at first green. Swore I didn't need a new driver and that I'd stop reading reviews about it but... My Epic Flash SZ started rattling lately and it's not any of the screws.... 

[Hot Rod 71]

What has your experience been with the sound of the LS driver?

 

I’ve read several posts in other threads stating it has a “hitting a railroad spike” sound to it. Kind of a piercing ting sound. 

[1163]

In true Golfwrx fashion, I went the other way...I started off with the Max LS and switched to the Sim2.

 

Getting too many right misses with the Max LS and feel wasn’t great.

 

I had some hot melt added heel side center to the Sim2 and rights are gone. The Sim2 feel is incredible and is longer then the Max LS.

Edited June 21, 2021 by 1163

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, Hot Rod 71 said:

What has your experience been with the sound of the LS driver?

 

I’ve read several posts in other threads stating it has a “hitting a railroad spike” sound to it. Kind of a piercing ting sound. 

 

To my ears the sound is great, and I'd put it somewhere in between the SIM2 and TSI3. All I hear is a high performance thwack, and never once would I associate the LS with a piercing ting. It's definitely lower pitched than my ZX5 and never approaches whatever sound the Ping makes.  

[SilenceX]

Let me open with - obviously I want to go hit both to compare. But my question is, are there any general advice / numbers that guide people toward the Max vs the Max LS? Like is there a rule of thumb that if you clubhead speed is below X mph that you definitely won’t want to even try the LS? Mostly asking because I did the no purchase entry with Rahm winning the US Open, so barring no “lost entry” I’m waiting for them to contact me to pick a driver. Hoping I get a chance to go try out both with a couple shaft options beforehand, but just in case any guidance would be appreciated! 

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, SilenceX said:

Let me open with - obviously I want to go hit both to compare. But my question is, are there any general advice / numbers that guide people toward the Max vs the Max LS? Like is there a rule of thumb that if you clubhead speed is below X mph that you definitely won’t want to even try the LS? Mostly asking because I did the no purchase entry with Rahm winning the US Open, so barring no “lost entry” I’m waiting for them to contact me to pick a driver. Hoping I get a chance to go try out both with a couple shaft options beforehand, but just in case any guidance would be appreciated! 

 

I spend some time on youtube watch reviews and pick the one you think fits your game best. There are no prerequisites, and technology is so good now, anyone can hit anything. You just have to find the one you like. Here's a good review of the Epic line, which should give you a good starting point:

 

 

[Japancakes]

Gamed the Ping G425 at the start of the season but couldn't hit it. I always thought Ping was the face of forgiveness but hitting the Cally LS has blown me away. It's been in my bag for a few months now and my distance and dispersion have improved greatly. The head combined with the Mitsubishi MMT 60 X shaft is a pure bomb combo off the tee box. 

 

I've only swung the SIM2 a few times so I can't speak to how it compares but I was a TM (2010 Burner) guy before making the switch to the Epic Max LS and I have to say the difference is huge.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Japancakes

[jimb]

On 6/21/2021 at 5:45 PM, Hot Rod 71 said:

What has your experience been with the sound of the LS driver?

 

I’ve read several posts in other threads stating it has a “hitting a railroad spike” sound to it. Kind of a piercing ting sound. 

I didn't find that at all.  I can compare it to the Mavrik SZ.  The SZ has a solid thwack sound for me.  The LS has a similar sound with the hint of a metallic sound right in the center of that sound.  I could describe it as a donut hole.  The body of the donut sounds like "thwack" and the metallic sound is right in the center.  That sound is not piercing or dominant.  I was hitting at the range and the guy next to me asked me what driver I was hitting.  I told him it was the LS.  He said it sounded great.  I think some of the acoustics are affected by the sliding weight, even when it is tight.

Edited July 7, 2021 by jimb

[jimb]

Callaway did a great job with these drivers.  For right handers they have added two additional SPEED models (TD and TD LS).  Lefties are out of luck for those.  TXG did the video on the three as Cactus Jack posted above. What is interesting from that video is the MAX, the model suited for those needing the most forgiveness, won the distance category based on Matt Blois' hitting the three models.  The MAX produced the highest launch and greatest carry distance of the three.  It also provided the greatest total distance of the three with spin numbers between the SPEED and the LS.  That surprised both Matt and Ian.

 

Now, Matt Blois has a swing speed that produces ball speeds up to about 180 mph.  For me that is a reference point for very very few golfers.  But they do provide some details in this and their other videos that are helpful for everyone.  For example, Ian Frasier is an advocate for the sliding weights on the MAX and LS models from a fitters perspective.

 

I am 72 years old and for my age I have decent clubhead speed.  I have the Mavrik SZ in the bag and bought the LS.  For me it produced too flat of ball flight, which to me was surprising given the SZ is a low spin head.  The sound of the LS was awesome.  I actually hit the SZ better in terms of flight with the same shaft in both.  My driver swing speed is in the mid 90s nowadays, so I could not reap the benefits of the LS head.  I also watched the TGW videos on the three models (all separate videos).  The pro there has a 98-100 mph clubhead speed with the driver, which to me is a better indicator of what I would relate to.  He got the best out of the SPEED head.  I am going to test the MAX and SPEED before my next purchase.

 

 

[1163]

I went the opposite direction and went from the Max LS to the Sim2.

 

For me, the Sim2 was longer, much better feel, and doesn’t miss to the right as much.

 

Both are great drivers but the Sim2 is more user friendly

[AtlantaGolf3]

On 6/20/2021 at 1:02 AM, Cactus Jack said:

The sliding weight flat out works for my game. 
 

I’m surprised TM went away from it since they popularized the tech with great success. I suppose Mizuno, Tour Edge etc, dropped it too. Maybe it was a fad that will go the way of the Dodo. I suppose to that point I’m equally surprised Callaway came back to it after a year off. I can’t wait to see the 2022 has in store!
 

I could see better players setting it once and never touching it again, but for a weekend hacker like me, the weight is a difference difference maker. 

Callaway always rotates between a non adjustable driver to an adjustable one to stager the releases. 
Epic

Rogue

Epic Flash

Mavrik

Epic Max LS/Speed 

2022 - I’ve heard they are bringing back to Mavrik Naming scheme

 

Mizuno is supposed to be adding their current Tour only adjustable driver to the driver lineup this fall. 

 

As for Taylormade. I think they will release a moveable weight type driver for 2022. I think they purposefully went with a non adjustable weight version this year to counter Callaway’s 2 year type cycle. This would give the consumer an adjustable option in the big box store when competing against Callaway’s non-adjustable type drivers in years to come. 
 

Edited July 8, 2021 by AtlantaGolf3

[Jay28]

I tried the Epic, Sim2Max and Cobra Radspeed today and ended up buying the Cobra.

Cobra was the most forgiving for me.

All of them equal in distance

I have very low spin numbers and a high launch so went with 9 degrees in all drivers for final testing.

The Cobra seemed to be best also at keeping my launch angle down a bit.

I was fitted so had a chance to compare numbers on trackman.

SS was at 98mph and carry averaged 240.

Spin 1800-2000 on all drivers, not much difference

 

Sim2 Max quickly got excluded because of the sound off the driver.. some love that dead sound but I hated it.

It might sound better with faster swing speeds but I found that no matter what quality of strike I had I couldn't really tell where I had made contact on the face from the feel and sound.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Jay28

[rooski]

7 minutes ago, Jay28 said:

Sim2 Max quickly got excluded because of the sound off the driver.. some love that dead sound but I hated it.

It might sound better with faster swing speeds

 

I had a similar experience when I tested the Sim and can conclude it doesn't sound better at high speeds (unless you enjoy the sound, sounds like neither of us did)

 

The Epic LS did have a nice sound and a nice feel, but when I set that thing down it looks 15 degrees open to my eye, it performed ok when I remembered to let it sit open.

[NoCalHack]

On 7/7/2021 at 11:08 AM, 1163 said:

I went the opposite direction and went from the Max LS to the Sim2.

 

For me, the Sim2 was longer, much better feel, and doesn’t miss to the right as much.

 

Both are great drivers but the Sim2 is more user friendly

Same. I switched over the same shaft from a max LS to sim2. 
 

I find the Sim2 to be lower spin and longer. It’s also more forgiving for me for  some reason. I seem to hit the sweet spot more often. I think the head has less MOI and is easier to square.  I prefer the feel too.