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Par/Course Rating and stableford points


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In an absolute sense, assuming you believe CR and slope are accurate measures of course difficulty, then the differential calculated and used for handicap index is the most appropriate measure of how

Scores are/were always compared to par.  Stableford practically non-existant.

You really don't need to do that for Stableford (with net par as the target score) unless you have a truly horrible round.   In case you don't have any blow-up holes, calculating a Stablefor

We typically use stableford points only in a few tournaments each season. So I look at both par and course rating. I play from 2 tees on my home course. One is 6450 (71.3) and the other is 6900 (73.2). Par is 72. So net par is a good barometer as par and course rating are so close. When playing away, I look at course rating. Some of the Senior match play comps are played from shorter tees/courses with lower ratings. (Example would be par 72, but rated around 69.) These shorter tees/courses often have short par 5’s. Playing those holes well often makes the difference in whether you play to the rating or not. (That and avoiding penalty strokes.)

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6 hours ago, Newby said:

When playing a strokeplay round do you rate your performance by comparing your gross score with the course rating, with par or how many stableford points you scored?

Pre WHS, did 36 points always mean you had played to your handicap or par?

 

Here in the States Stableford is a rare event. I believe where you're from (GB IIRC), it is very common. Hence Stableford isn't even widely known here.

 

Otherwise, as RO mentioned, we most often "rate ourselves" vs. par, even though we know the CR is used for handicaps.

 

Unfortunately, for me personally, since it's the only game in town, I'm currently playing on a very short and low rated course vs. par, so when I shoot right around par (sadly not often wnough), I'm playing to about a 6,,,,,,,,, so I often leave the course at least somewhat disappointed. bang head.gif

 

 

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I'd say I do most of my comparisons in Stableford points.

 

The gross score is what I play for and measure my abilities with but I compare that score to how I feel about the round, and previous gross scores.

 

But if I compare actual scores, it's Stableford scores when I've made a mess of a hole or two resulting in a horrible gross score or no score at all for a round that went well otherwise. I've also started to look at differentials after good rounds and checking how my HI would've changed had it been a qualifying round, or will change if it was.

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In an absolute sense, assuming you believe CR and slope are accurate measures of course difficulty, then the differential calculated and used for handicap index is the most appropriate measure of how well you played.  Playing to net par would be a decent measure.  Stableford 36 points would be similar if you don't have to pickup.  Otherwise it becomes pretty meaningless quickly.

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8 hours ago, Newby said:

When playing a strokeplay round do you rate your performance by comparing your gross score with the course rating, with par or how many stableford points you scored?

Pre WHS, did 36 points always mean you had played to your handicap or par?

My usual everyday games are "points" which is to say everyone plays gross Stableford and then compares it to 36 minus their (course) handicap. That's been the popular format at all three clubs of which I've been a member over the years. 

 

So I rate my performance by whether I made my quota of points or not. Anything plus points (roughly equivalent to Stableford greater than 36) is good, anything +4 or better is outstanding. Minus points is bad, the truly abysmal rounds are those approaching -10 points for the day. Rare but it does happen.

 

One bright spot for our usual games. We have separate bets for front, back and overall. So quite often I can console myself with having them +2 or +3 on one nine or the other even if the overall points are minus. It's a lot easier to be better than my handicap for nine holes than for eighteen!

 

P.S. It is a source of ongoing consternation for me that no groups I play with have the least interest in allocating handicap strokes and playing actual Stableford. The notion of keeping track of which holes you do and do not get strokes is viewed as akin to a tax audit in difficulty. 

Edited by North Butte
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29 minutes ago, North Butte said:

My usual everyday games are "points" which is to say everyone plays gross Stableford and then compares it to 36 minus their (course) handicap. That's been the popular format at all three clubs of which I've been a member over the years. 

 

So I rate my performance by whether I made my quota of points or not. Anything plus points (roughly equivalent to Stableford greater than 36) is good, anything +4 or better is outstanding. Minus points is bad, the truly abysmal rounds are those approaching -10 points for the day. Rare but it does happen.

 

One bright spot for our usual games. We have separate bets for front, back and overall. So quite often I can console myself with having them +2 or +3 on one nine or the other even if the overall points are minus. It's a lot easier to be better than my handicap for nine holes than for eighteen!

 

P.S. It is a source of ongoing consternation for me that no groups I play with have the least interest in allocating handicap strokes and playing actual Stableford. The notion of keeping track of which holes you do and do not get strokes is viewed as akin to a tax audit in difficulty. 

 

Points, or quota games, adjust your "handicap" far quicker than the USGA will.

 

That makes these games popular with players/groups that don't keep handicaps.

 

Stableford games need real/legitimate handicaps to play. Thus your handicap moves "correctly". :classic_wink:

Edited by nsxguy

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15 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Points, or quota games, adjust your "handicap" far quicker than the USGA will.

 

That makes these games popular with players/groups that don't keep handicaps.

 

Stableford games need real/legitimate handicaps to play. Thus you handicap moves "correctly". :classic_wink:

Our groups require a GHIN handicap in order to play (although occasionally we'll make an exception for a guest). As for "real/legitimate" hey, they are right there in GHIN so they must be legit. Yeah, whatever.

 

 I suspect the reasons for not doing real Stableford, in descending order of importance, are the following:

 

1) Dotting the cards is way too much work

2) Points is how [some long-dead guy] started this game in 1974

3) We want to pick up after missing our bogey putt and never take a triple

 

FWIW, I'm practically like a sandbagger in this group because I count my net doubles. Vary rare to have a round where I don't have at least one hole to post a triple where most guys would just "take a double". So I got that going for me...

Edited by North Butte
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49 minutes ago, North Butte said:

P.S. It is a source of ongoing consternation for me that no groups I play with have the least interest in allocating handicap strokes and playing actual Stableford. The notion of keeping track of which holes you do and do not get strokes is viewed as akin to a tax audit in difficulty. 

 

You really don't need to do that for Stableford (with net par as the target score) unless you have a truly horrible round.

 

In case you don't have any blow-up holes, calculating a Stableford score is very easy. Just substract your score in relation to par from your Playing/Course HCP and add that to 36 to get your Stableford score.

 

You get 7 strokes and shoot 5 over par, you get: 7 - 5 + 36 = 38 points. 

 

With a blow-up hole, a player with a Playing/Course HCP of 1-17 would only need to check the hole indices of holes on which he/she shot a triple bogey or worse and then deduct the number of strokes over the Net Double Bogey to get to the Stableford score for the hole.

 

So, a player gets 10 strokes and shoots +15 with an 8 on par 4 with HCP Index of 14. Because the NDB is 6 for the hole, he/she deducts 8 - 6 = 2 strokes from that hole.

 

36 - (15 - 2 - 10) = 33 points

 

Needless to say the same works for Adjusted Gross Scores, just replace the 36 with the course par.

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For all the nonsense surrounding the supposedly “World” part of WHS in the end it has been worth it for me (under the USGA version) just to have my Course Handicap correctly reflect the tees I am playing relative to Par. 
 

If I were somewhere that the CR still had to be adjusted for tees I don’t think there would be much to redeem the changes. 

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13 minutes ago, Newby said:

Interesting. Any idea why that should be?

 

Ah, my bad, I completely misread your comment as "CR - Par" and replied way too quickly thinking you were referring to the different methods used to calculate Course Handicaps. 🙂

 

In the UK you'd need CR to equal Par but elsewhere it wouldn't matter. At least I'm not aware of any other place where CR isn't included in the CH formula.

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6 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

In an absolute sense, assuming you believe CR and slope are accurate measures of course difficulty, then the differential calculated and used for handicap index is the most appropriate measure of how well you played.  

 

This.

 

If I play at or below my index I consider it a good day.

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