Adding length to a shaft affect launch and spin?

[PanchiCab]

I was fitted 2 years ago to a ping g410+ 9° -1.5° with evenflow black 6.0 tipped 2" to play at 44.75", it's a great club but not on distance. SS is 111 and spin is 2900/3000, carry avg 260/270. Adding 1" could affect launch and spin? I guess it's a cheaper alternative than change head or shaft

[Valtiel]

Nothing about adding length will inherently impact launch and spin, no. How the extra length and subsequently the extra weight (if you don't lighten the head) impacts your swing will determine whether anything changes, and that will vary from person to person.  

Anything in that spin range however is a product of either too much delivered loft, poor strike location, or a combo of both. Have you ever done an impact analysis to see where your strike tendencies are? Missing the sweet spot has by far the biggest impact on spin, with even slightly lower and/or heel side strikes easily getting towards 3k and upwards. Likewise, if you are adding loft at impact due to delivery mechanic issues (flipping/casting) then that can easily add spin as well. If possible it would be very beneficial to get on to a good launch monitor and capture strike location, dynamic loft, attack angle, launch angle, and spin. A GCQuad indoors with dots on the clubface can provide this. Those data points will tell you just about everything you need to know about how and why you numbers are what they are, and inform whether you need a driver change, loft change, strike location change, or swing change. 

[Stuart_G]

4 hours ago, PanchiCab said:

I was fitted 2 years ago to a ping g410+ 9° -1.5° with evenflow black 6.0 tipped 2" to play at 44.75", it's a great club but not on distance. SS is 111 and spin is 2900/3000, carry avg 260/270. Adding 1" could affect launch and spin? I guess it's a cheaper alternative than change head or shaft

 

 

Ball speed?  Launch angle?

 

Based on the numbers provided If there is any loss of distance - it's not a whole lot maybe ~5-10 yards or so - from the spin being a bit high.  As already mentioned, that means either poor impact (low on the face) - which will likely get worse with more playing length.   Or if it's high dynamic loft delivered (hands a bit too far behind the ball at impact) then trying to fix that (which is really a swing issue) with playing length is just as likely to make things worse as it is better.

 

Do you know the swing weight?    I'd try increasing the the head weight first.  There's a chance that might delay the release a little bit and it may be a bit on the light side if nothing was done to the head weight to adjust for the shorter playing length.

 

Was all that tipping done for feel or to try and bring down the launch/spin?    If the later, how does the shaft actually feel to you?  Trying to chase launch/spin numbers with a shaft stiffness/profile change can be a source of problems for some individuals with certain sensitivities to the feel of the shaft loading/unloading.

 

Trying to force a positive AoA is another common source for high dynamic loft (and therefore high spin) in ams.  

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Stuart_G

[PanchiCab]

Thanks for the replies, let me elaborate a little more, when i ask about the effect on launch and spin i had in mind if there's a a new variable to take in count before adding lenght to my driver, i know shaft lenght could affect swing speed but never heard about the other 2 factors, i'm not looking for lower launch, maybe spin but as both mention, my impact has some fault here

 

My common miss is low toe side and other times high toe that end up in a low pull hook but there's no magic driver that would fix that. Almost never miss in the heel and almost never hit a fade

 

My fitter made me this driver because i was looking for more forgiveness than my previous gamer (m1 460 9.5 at 8.25 with rogue silver 60x at 45.25") and he delivers, the g410+ is indeed straighter but also 5-10 yds short in average and a good 20 when i catch one. He gave me the evenflow because a heavier shaft helps me handle my tempo (close to 78g i believe) and tipped 2" because had to wait 3-4 months to get a 6.5 (here in south america we have to wait a lot for custom options and most only carry Regular and Stiff, the only x they carry at the time was the tour 65 and didn't like the shaft). Also add 5grams of hot melt to the head, don't know if thats light, normal or heavy

 

- AoA is between +3 to +5 but i wouldn't say i try to hit up, it's just normal for me, learned that way

- Driver SS avg was 113 w/m1 and 111 w/g410.

- 6 iron as a refference was 92 and hit it 185 with mp53 modus 120x, on the course at sea level

- ballspeed 163 w/m1 and 159 w/g410

 

All numbers over a year ago, i don't have access to a launch monitor right now 

 

 

[PanchiCab]

2 minutes ago, PanchiCab said:

Thanks for the replies, let me elaborate a little more, when i ask about the effect on launch and spin i had in mind if there's a a new variable to take in count before adding lenght to my driver, i know shaft lenght could affect swing speed but never heard about the other 2 factors, i'm not looking for lower launch, maybe spin but as both mention, my impact has some fault here

 

My common miss is low toe side and other times high toe that end up in a low pull hook but there's no magic driver that would fix that. Almost never miss in the heel and almost never hit a fade

 

My fitter made me this driver because i was looking for more forgiveness than my previous gamer (m1 460 9.5 at 8.25 with rogue silver 60x at 45.25") and he delivers, the g410+ is indeed straighter but also 5-10 yds short in average and a good 20 when i catch one. He gave me the evenflow because a heavier shaft helps me handle my tempo (close to 78g i believe) and tipped 2" because had to wait 3-4 months to get a 6.5 (here in south america we have to wait a lot for custom options and most only carry Regular and Stiff, the only x they carry at the time was the tour 65 and didn't like the shaft). Also add 5grams of hot melt to the head, don't know if thats light, normal or heavy

 

- AoA is between +3 to +5 but i wouldn't say i try to hit up, it's just normal for me, learned that way

- Driver SS avg was 113 w/m1 and 111 w/g410.

- 6 iron as a refference was 92 and hit it 185 with mp53 modus 120x, on the course at sea level

- ballspeed 163 w/m1 and 159 w/g410

 

All numbers over a year ago, i don't have access to a launch monitor right now 

 

 

And just to add, here we're having the worst of the pandemic so borders are closed. Most of the fitters in my county are from Argentina, makes sense cause we have only 7 courses in the area and 1.200 golfers across the country so any tweek to my bag i need will be on me at least untill the end of the year

[Valtiel]

I would say overall your fitter did a great job putting you in something that was designed to serve your needs, so I would consider that a strong first step, especially coming from the much less forgiving M1 460. The next step is to fine tune what you have by messing with weight, length, and maybe shaft type. 

Overall the G410 line is probably one of the best drivers out there for someone with a toe miss that is looking for forgiveness, especially with the rear weight in the fade position. The overall build being both shorter and heavier is likely where the distance loss is coming from since you went up measurably in both shaft weight and head weight (PING heads are heavier than most). The key will be finding out whether that extra weight is necessary for consistency or if it has tipped too much towards robbing you of speed. The easiest way to experiment there is with a lighter rear weight for the PING which can be found online fairly easily. You're also in a much softer shaft than you were previously which may or may not be contributing to your problems. The Evenflow Black, despite the "Black" in the name, is actually a pretty mid soft shaft very similar to the AD-DI, which you also have in a stiff flex as opposed to your original X-stiff. If you still have the Rogue Silver then it might be worth having a PING tip put on just to try it out. 

Overall though I think these are the questions you need to answer for yourself with experimentation:

- Is a shorter 44.75" helping you make more consistent contact or giving you confidence, or is it just reducing your speed?
- Is the overall weight of the club with the heavier head and heavier shaft meaningfully contributing to accuracy, or is just slowing you down? If so, where is the tipping point between heavy/accurate and lighter/longer?
- Is the softer shaft causing any issues with feel/delivery or does it feel comfortable to you?

Edited June 23, 2021 by Valtiel