where am i losing power? two vids..

[milesgiles]

 

 

 

improved my swing as much as covid has made practise intermittent, and I do work on some speed drills regularly but Im still lacking speed (alright its slo mo but it was still pretty much flat out). I just have a lazy swing, Im straight but can barely crack 150 ball speed which is costing me against the younger studs at my club.

 

Anything obvious? It looks janky on the follow through, and I am working on matching hip and arm turn since I complete with the hips too early in the bs. Why does it look like I swing across the line at the top? Is that some early extension? Any thoughts chaps?

[jarturo]

I too had a similar problem getting past a 100 mph driver club head speed.

 

I picked up 10 MPH club head speed (110+ mph) by loading more into the right heel (right pocket back) with the left heel lifting ever so slightly as the left knee went down. The proof was in the pressure matt center of gravity and weight shift. In my old swing there was not enough weight load to the right side at the top of the swing (65/75%) and it was more into the right toe and now it is 95-100%into the right side. Plus the CG moved to the right and then left quickly. Essentially, I picked up power by incorporating more "lateral" weight and pressure motion while keeping the very head centered (no sway).  The power sources are rotational (mine was very good), some lateral which greatly improved, and the same vertical motion which I have never had very much, and might hurt myself trying to do so.

 

Jack

[wagolfer7]

Lack of width in the backswing.  Lower - longer on takeaway.  

 

Collapse of lower body early in the swing.  Hips open up too much - too soon, because of straightening of trail leg too early and too much.  The over the line on the top happens because the amount of flex in the lead leg and full extension in the trail leg, allows your hips to over rotate.  Your lower body is maxed out a little past P2.  Learn to turn into a more stable trail leg, would help get more ground pressure, allow your hip to turn properly - as well as sync up your lower body and upper body better.   

 

Nice swing by the way.  Lot of good things happening in there as well.          

[jonsnow]

I agree with wagolfer 7, lot of good things going on in your swing. Miles, what age are you?

[indianagolf2]

33 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

Lack of width in the backswing.  Lower - longer on takeaway.  

 

Collapse of lower body early in the swing.  Hips open up too much - too soon, because of straightening of trail leg too early and too much.  The over the line on the top happens because the amount of flex in the lead leg and full extension in the trail leg, allows your hips to over rotate.  Your lower body is maxed out a little past P2.  Learn to turn into a more stable trail leg, would help get more ground pressure, allow your hip to turn properly - as well as sync up your lower body and upper body better.   

 

Nice swing by the way.  Lot of good things happening in there as well.          

Spectacular feedback 

[milesgiles]

2 hours ago, jonsnow said:

I agree with wagolfer 7, lot of good things going on in your swing. Miles, what age are you?

 

47 now and feeling it.. on top of everything else gyms have been shut, lost a lot of strength which doesnt help, but i kniw I need to swing more efficiently as well 

[milesgiles]

2 hours ago, indianagolf2 said:

Spectacular feedback 

 

very.. Im going to have a read and a think of wagolfer and jarturo's posts, I have fiddled with a more flexed right knee before and got away from it..

[chigolfer1]

all I know is hitting into those power lines above the range would freak me out lol

[jut111]

Un scientific but you just don’t look like your swinging athletically. You’re in all the right positions it just seems very manufactured. Try and use the ground some 

[kengan]

I'm a high handicap player who just started last October but I'd like to share my input. I'd like to think my swing and general understanding is higher than my score suggests ATM since I'm transitioning from an extensive background in Tennis 😄 

 

The one thing that stands out to me is that your back is straightening back up as you hit it. By the time you're at impact, the golf club is already pointed way down and not in line with your chest/torso. If you think about sports like baseball, tennis, hockey - the correct form is always to swing across your chest as much as you are able. 

[milesgiles]

again thanks all, I'll film it before the end of the week and update.. this forum has helped me a lot last couple of years, hit a home course pb 13 greens two weeks ago and theres 3 holes I can barely reach..

 

A lot of courses I play the extra few yards wouldnt count for an awful lot but at mine its significant. Two or three of our guys are in the 170s (one touches 180) which can leave them a short iron where I am hammering a rescue lol.. 

 

 

[MattStrube]

I would say, yes, a better turn back. I disagree with not extending that leg, but I do agree that you do it a bit early. Your arms go long, but you don't get as much upper thoracic spine extension at the top and stop turning back.  That's part of it, but the bigger issue is an early release...Face is a bit open, You aren't rotating properly on the downswing and that ends up having you throwing angles. 

 

Its subtle, but you stand up and your right arm is straight at impact.  Ideally, on the way down, you would add some right bend and lower lumbar extension (arch. your back/stick ur butt out), that would allow you to have your shoulders more open at impact and open up more with a bent right arm.  That would help you stay in the shot a little better and turn more.  

 

Speed & Power come from the rotation of your spine and not the throwing of the club at the ball.  

 

If you were one of my players, I'd have you start at impact and feel that right bend and lumbar extension, take half swings, and then slowly work your way up.  This is your main issue, not necessarily the backswing.  Fixing the backswing might help, but the root cause is through impact.  Some players can naturally get here with a better backswing, most cant.

[MattStrube]

2 hours ago, kengan said:

I'm a high handicap player who just started last October but I'd like to share my input. I'd like to think my swing and general understanding is higher than my score suggests ATM since I'm transitioning from an extensive background in Tennis 😄 

 

The one thing that stands out to me is that your back is straightening back up as you hit it. By the time you're at impact, the golf club is already pointed way down and not in line with your chest/torso. If you think about sports like baseball, tennis, hockey - the correct form is always to swing across your chest as much as you are able. 

Yep, Right on point...if you can smash a baseball or hit a nasty forehand, and know the mechanics of it all....you are more than qualified to discuss how power is generated in a golf swing.  

[MonteScheinblum]

IMO you shouldn’t limit your hip turn.  As a matter of fact, your right hip needs to move more.  It needs to get behind you and toward the target more, initiating an earlier shift into left side.

 

Right now you can’t load downward into the ground because you are stuck on the right side and have to slide to get to the left side.  Watch Hogans hip action in the backswing.

Your right hip is on the red line, the green line is plus or minus where Nicklaus, Hogan, Tiger, DJ, Rose and Snead are.

 

Look at where your right hip is at the top compared to the 6 all time greats seen below.  The second link shows the early shift and downward shift.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMKm-_rl3vU/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/COxvCRHDqeP/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by MonteScheinblum

[Fireballer]

31 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

IMO you shouldn’t limit your hip turn.  As a matter of fact, your right hip needs to move more.  It needs to get behind you and toward the target more, initiating an earlier shift into left side.

 

Right now you can’t load downward into the ground because you are stuck on the right side and have to slide to get to the left side.  Watch Hogans hip action in the backswing.

Your right hip is on the red line, the green line is plus or minus where Nicklaus, Hogan, Tiger, DJ, Rose and Snead are.

 

Look at where your right hip is at the top compared to the 6 all time greats seen below.  The second link shows the early shift and downward shift.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMKm-_rl3vU/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/COxvCRHDqeP/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

So is he on that red line from the pelvis moving opposite the target while hip is turning, or he just flat out not turning hip far enough behind him?

[MonteScheinblum]

14 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

So is he on that red line from the pelvis moving opposite the target while hip is turning, or he just flat out not turning hip far enough behind him?

Two sides of same coin.😄

[Moonlightgrm]

50 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

IMO you shouldn’t limit your hip turn.  As a matter of fact, your right hip needs to move more.  It needs to get behind you and toward the target more, initiating an earlier shift into left side.

 

Right now you can’t load downward into the ground because you are stuck on the right side and have to slide to get to the left side.  Watch Hogans hip action in the backswing.

Your right hip is on the red line, the green line is plus or minus where Nicklaus, Hogan, Tiger, DJ, Rose and Snead are.

 

Look at where your right hip is at the top compared to the 6 all time greats seen below.  The second link shows the early shift and downward shift.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMKm-_rl3vU/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/COxvCRHDqeP/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

The handicaps in our group are 2, 2, 4, and I am a 3.1. I have video of all of our swings and none of us get very deep with our hip turn. We are proof that you can still play this game, but I’d sure like to improve upon any aspect of my game. What’s the trick to improving my hip turn? 

[MonteScheinblum]

Just now, Moonlightgrm said:

The handicaps in our group are 2, 2, 4, and I am a 3.1. I have video of all of our swings and none of us get very deep with our hip turn. We are proof that you can still play this game, but I’d sure like to improve upon any aspect of my game. What’s the trick to improving my hip turn? 

A whole generation of golfers learned to play with limited and often incorrect hip turn.  Brooks Koepka and Jason Day prove you don’t have to have much.  That being said, it isn’t the easiest way to get it done and makes you more vulnerable to injury.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMFW-xPFdLf/?utm_medium=copy_link

[Obee]

46 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

A whole generation of golfers learned to play with limited and often incorrect hip turn.  Brooks Koepka and Jason Day prove you don’t have to have much.  That being said, it isn’t the easiest way to get it done and makes you more vulnerable to injury.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMFW-xPFdLf/?utm_medium=copy_link

I am neither Jason Day, nor Bruce Koepka, but I can attest to the more injuries part!

Edited June 23, 2021 by Obee

[tthomasgolfer605]

Get your right thumb off the top of the grip and widen the right foot a bit with the driver. You'll probably notice better strikes with all clubs.

[milesgiles]

7 hours ago, MattStrube said:

I would say, yes, a better turn back. I disagree with not extending that leg, but I do agree that you do it a bit early. Your arms go long, but you don't get as much upper thoracic spine extension at the top and stop turning back.  That's part of it, but the bigger issue is an early release...Face is a bit open, You aren't rotating properly on the downswing and that ends up having you throwing angles. 

 

Its subtle, but you stand up and your right arm is straight at impact.  Ideally, on the way down, you would add some right bend and lower lumbar extension (arch. your back/stick ur butt out), that would allow you to have your shoulders more open at impact and open up more with a bent right arm.  That would help you stay in the shot a little better and turn more.  

 

Speed & Power come from the rotation of your spine and not the throwing of the club at the ball.  

 

If you were one of my players, I'd have you start at impact and feel that right bend and lumbar extension, take half swings, and then slowly work your way up.  This is your main issue, not necessarily the backswing.  Fixing the backswing might help, but the root cause is through impact.  Some players can naturally get here with a better backswing, most cant.

 

i posted the driver because it shows up my faults better, I completely agree I dont stay down and through the shot and its something I keep working on.. love 9-3 for this especially 

[milesgiles]

6 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

IMO you shouldn’t limit your hip turn.  As a matter of fact, your right hip needs to move more.  It needs to get behind you and toward the target more, initiating an earlier shift into left side.

 

Right now you can’t load downward into the ground because you are stuck on the right side and have to slide to get to the left side.  Watch Hogans hip action in the backswing.

Your right hip is on the red line, the green line is plus or minus where Nicklaus, Hogan, Tiger, DJ, Rose and Snead are.

 

Look at where your right hip is at the top compared to the 6 all time greats seen below.  The second link shows the early shift and downward shift.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMKm-_rl3vU/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/COxvCRHDqeP/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

 

 

very clear explanation as always, having a go with these ideas today will report back! 

[phizzy30]

I come from a baseball and body building back round.  We baseball guys are taught from a very young age to use a lot of hip rotation and late release.  You need a strong core to do so.  Also, using ground forces by doing the squat move is also a must for power in the golf swing for shorter guys like you and myself(ala Rory).  Plenty of vids on youtube you can peruse that explains it better than I can and in lay man's terms as well. 

[airjammer]

If you are in the uk I’d go see one of the pros that have a gasp system. here is one. 
 

https://instagram.com/sfgolfperform?utm_medium=copy_link

 

it would be a game changer for you. Comparatively to the United states Steve is much cheaper. Instructors around me want $500 a hour to get on the gasp system. 

[milesgiles]

52 minutes ago, airjammer said:

If you are in the uk I’d go see one of the pros that have a gasp system. here is one. 
 

https://instagram.com/sfgolfperform?utm_medium=copy_link

 

it would be a game changer for you. Comparatively to the United states Steve is much cheaper. Instructors around me want $500 a hour to get on the gasp system. 

 

will have a look thanks

 

from today, 'trying' to get wider and turn over a flexed right knee while moving right hip towards target:

 

 

 

its on a downslope so not very useful but it felt decently powerful and less floppy.. will be on a flat range friday so take a couple of proper vids, thanks all

[MattStrube]

12 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

A whole generation of golfers learned to play with limited and often incorrect hip turn.  Brooks Koepka and Jason Day prove you don’t have to have much.  That being said, it isn’t the easiest way to get it done and makes you more vulnerable to injury.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMFW-xPFdLf/?utm_medium=copy_link

Agreed Monte; Those two guys are good despite their "faults-lack of turn", not because of them.  Day has back issues, and Brooks knee issues.  Brooks is a beast of a human and rotates well like Rahm or Finau... 

[MattStrube]

13 hours ago, Moonlightgrm said:

The handicaps in our group are 2, 2, 4, and I am a 3.1. I have video of all of our swings and none of us get very deep with our hip turn. We are proof that you can still play this game, but I’d sure like to improve upon any aspect of my game. What’s the trick to improving my hip turn? 

Learn to do it without a ball first, and find a good coach to teach you how.  Here's a video I made for one of our players...on how to get a full pivot back, but it will give you an idea of a full turn

 

Pivot - Full Turn

 

The key here is that I gave him options for what to feel.  Not everyone has the same feels.  He actually came back with a fourth option 🙂 

 

The other key is that he sent me video after trying this so that I made sure that he did it correctly, THEN I gave him the 👍 to do a bunch of reps.  Don't watch my video and try to do this on your own...have a coach take a look to make sure you're getting the most out of your practice/training so that you don't waste your time.  This is why YouTube sucks for getting better, you need someone to make sure you're doing things correctly.

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by MattStrube

[glk]

15 hours ago, MattStrube said:

I would say, yes, a better turn back. I disagree with not extending that leg, but I do agree that you do it a bit early. Your arms go long, but you don't get as much upper thoracic spine extension at the top and stop turning back.  That's part of it, but the bigger issue is an early release...Face is a bit open, You aren't rotating properly on the downswing and that ends up having you throwing angles. 

 

Its subtle, but you stand up and your right arm is straight at impact.  Ideally, on the way down, you would add some right bend and lower lumbar extension (arch. your back/stick ur butt out), that would allow you to have your shoulders more open at impact and open up more with a bent right arm.  That would help you stay in the shot a little better and turn more.  

 

Speed & Power come from the rotation of your spine and not the throwing of the club at the ball.  

 

If you were one of my players, I'd have you start at impact and feel that right bend and lumbar extension, take half swings, and then slowly work your way up.  This is your main issue, not necessarily the backswing.  Fixing the backswing might help, but the root cause is through impact.  Some players can naturally get here with a better backswing, most cant.

His root cause is he moves the shaft from flat to steep and has his arms disconnected from his pivot (starts by taking them away from his body, gets shaft flat which gets his arms to swing around his body vs up - so he has to lift to get the club up and thence his arms swing too far.      Then as monte pointed out he has no lateral shifting in his swing so he buys no time in transition to get those arms back in front and in synch with pivot - coupled with the steep shaft you get the ee and early right shoulder drop etc.  

 

he is moving the club in an inefficient motion so he does what he does to hit the ball.   Impact is a result of the inefficiencies - he won’t fix impact by working on impact unless it leads to a better backswing.

[Teekman]

15 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

A whole generation of golfers learned to play with limited and often incorrect hip turn.  Brooks Koepka and Jason Day prove you don’t have to have much.  That being said, it isn’t the easiest way to get it done and makes you more vulnerable to injury.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMFW-xPFdLf/?utm_medium=copy_link

As someone who is actually surprisingly good but constantly fighting Over the Top Move, this video has me extremely perplexed ... and now I'm even more confused lmao.

 

The way this demonstration of a proper weight shifts looks to my eyes ... is basically by the time you get to the downswing you should be loaded on your front side???

Is that to eliminate the sliding action common in most golfers???

 

Not saying you're wrong, I've relied solely on hand eye coordination with crappy mechanics, but always thought you load on your back side and then transfer on the downswing?

Edited June 23, 2021 by Teekman
More Clarification

[MattStrube]

1 hour ago, glk said:

His root cause is he moves the shaft from flat to steep and has his arms disconnected from his pivot (starts by taking them away from his body, gets shaft flat which gets his arms to swing around his body vs up - so he has to lift to get the club up and thence his arms swing too far.      Then as monte pointed out he has no lateral shifting in his swing so he buys no time in transition to get those arms back in front and in synch with pivot - coupled with the steep shaft you get the ee and early right shoulder drop etc.  

 

he is moving the club in an inefficient motion so he does what he does to hit the ball.   Impact is a result of the inefficiencies - he won’t fix impact by working on impact unless it leads to a better backswing.

The pivot is critical I agree…and we usually have players work that first; His pivot isn’t awful but needs some help both back and down; If I can get impact feels right it all works together.